看板 book 關於我們 聯絡資訊
Curiosity kills the cat. 有時候人是不該放縱自己的好奇心的。 只因為剛讀完 Thinking, Fast and Slow 想看看很暢銷但被人罵翻的中文翻譯本是什麼樣子, 於是有了上面的糾錯文字。 洪蘭說她是倉促間翻成的。不論這種態度是否合理正確, 好歹她先給自己一個下台階,可憐買書的讀者。 因此查了洪蘭的著作資歷,發現她有本譯作「天生愛學樣:發現鏡像神經元」 得到中文世界最重要的科普著作獎:第五屆吳大猷科學普及著作獎, 而且是最高的「金籤獎」。 吳大猷基金會設在中研院物理所內,科學普及著作獎還有台積電文教基金會等支援, 應該有嚴謹的評審制度吧,可惜拿來一閱,事有大謬不然者! 根據 第五屆吳大猷科學普及著作獎 徵獎辦法 評選標準: 以啟發性、信(內容豐富正確)、達(表達清楚)、趣(吸引讀者、可讀性高)為標準, 其中「內容正確」為入選之必要條件。 http://www.phys.sinica.edu.tw/~tywufund/award/2009/method_05.htm 大家且看底下的揪出來的錯誤,只是短短幾頁的東西,居然就有 那麼多可笑的錯誤,不敢想像如果抓到底,全書到底有幾百個甚至上千個 錯誤。 「天生愛學樣:發現鏡像神經元」哪點合於評選標準了?? 說來這隻電腦前的貓咪還真該死,居然又忍不住好奇心,查了評審委員名單, 發現了: 兩地各推薦十本著作進入決審,決審審書過程由 5 月中旬開始,至 7 月初 結束,本屆決審委員會由中央研究院院士王倬、朱國瑞、曾志朗、李太楓、沈 元壤、黃秉乾組成進行評選工作,並於 7 月初舉行決審會議,選出了創作類及 翻譯類的金籤獎、銀籤獎,及佳作作品。 http://www.phys.sinica.edu.tw/~tywufund/download/award/2009/recipient.pdf 只能夠說:這已經是醜聞了。 曾志朗、洪蘭夫婦,你們讓我覺得噁心! -------------- 天生愛學樣:發現鏡像神經元 Mirroring people 作者:Marco Iacoboni 譯者:洪蘭 出版社:遠流 出版日期:2009年07月01日 語言:繁體中文 ISBN:9789573264941 裝訂:平裝 http://www.books.com.tw/exep/prod/booksfile.php?item=0010439657 -------------------- When we get right down to it, what do we human beings do all day long? We read the world, especially the people we encounter. My face in the mirror first thing in the morning doesn’t look too good, but the face beside me in the mirror tells me that my lovely wife is off to a good start. One glance at my eleven-year-old daughter at the breakfast table tells me to tread carefully and sip my espresso in silence. When a colleague reaches for a wrench in the laboratory, I know he’s going to work on the magnetic stimulation machine, and he’s not going to throw his tool against the wall in anger. When another colleague walks in with a grin or a smirk on her face— the line can be fine indeed, the product of tiny differences in the way we set our face muscles—I automatically and almost instantaneously can discern which it is. We all make dozens—hundreds—of such distinctions every day. It is, quite literally, what we do. 仔細想一想,我們其實不知道自己每天幹了什麼事。我們閱讀世界,尤其是每天所碰到的 人。早晨一起床,鏡中的我的臉不怎麼好看,但是鏡中我旁邊人的臉告訴我,我太太今天 應該很愉快。看一眼早餐桌旁我十一歲女兒的臉告訴我,今天最好小心一點,不要多話, 安靜的喝我的義大利濃縮咖啡。當實驗室的同事伸手去拿扳手時,我知道他是要修理磁刺 激儀器,而不是生氣的要把扳手丟向牆壁。當另外一個同事臉上高興或得意的笑時,臉上 肌肉微乎其微的差別,我就自動的、幾乎立刻察覺她的心情。我們每天做幾十個、幾百個 這種區辨。這就是我們每天在做的事 。 -------------------- 評: When we get right down to it, what do we human beings do all day long? 洪蘭:仔細想一想,我們其實不知道自己每天幹了什麼事。 原書正文的第一句,居然就被改頭換面,委實不是好的開始。 -------------------- Nor do we give any of this a second thought. It all seems so ordinary. However, it is actually extraordinary—and extraordinary that it feels ordinary! For centuries, philosophers scratched their heads over humans’ ability to understand one another. Their befuddlement was reasonable: they had essentially no science to work with. For the past 150 years or so, psychologists, cognitive scientists, and neuroscientists have had some science to work with—and in the past fifty years, a lot of science—and for a long time they continued to scratch their heads. No one could begin to explain how it is that we know what others are doing, thinking, and feeling. 我們的這些行為都是想都不想就在做,看起來理所當然,但這其實是非常的特殊─特殊到 看起來理所當然!千百年來,哲學家一直搔頭,想搞清楚人怎麼能夠瞭解彼此,他們的迷 惑是可以理解的,因為他們沒有任何的科學知識使他們可以著手研究。但是過去的一百五 十年來,心理學家、認知科學家和神經科學家已經有科學知識可以著手研究了,而最近的 五十年,可供科學家研究的科學知識和技術更多了。但他們還是繼續搔頭,不能瞭解,沒 有人可以解釋我們怎麼知道別人在做什麼、想什麼和感覺到什麼。 -------------------- 評: However, it is actually extraordinary—and extraordinary that it feels ordinary! 洪蘭:但這其實是非常的特殊─特殊到看起來理所當然! 當作:但這其實是很不尋常的,而其不尋常,就在於我們覺得它很平常。 -------------------- Now we can. We achieve our very subtle understanding of other people thanks to certain collections of special cells in the brain called mirror neurons. These are the tiny miracles that get us through the day. They are at the heart of how we navigate through our lives. They bind us with each other, mentally and emotionally. 現在我們可以了。感謝大腦中的鏡像神經元(mirror neurons),我們終於知道別人在做 什麼了。這些鏡像神經元真是奇蹟,它讓我們順利的度過每一天,它使我們能夠在心靈上 和情緒上跟別人結合在一起。 -------------------- 評: thanks to 是「因為」 (because of someone or something) 的意思,翻成「感謝」 雖然也可以,但味道就是有些不大對勁。 certain collections of special cells in the brain 沒譯 這是本書十分關鍵的一句話,作者在此解釋「鏡像神經元」是什麼東西,否則讀者看了半 天,也不會知道它們其實是某些腦細胞的集合體。 這麼重要的一句話,居然沒譯出來。 -------------------- Why do we give ourselves over to emotion during the carefully crafted, heartrending scenes in certain movies? Because mirror neurons in our brains re-create for us the distress we see on the screen. We have empathy for the fictional characters—we know how they’re feeling—because we literally experience the same feelings ourselves. And when we watch the movie stars kiss on-screen? Some of the cells firing in our brain are the same ones that fire when we kiss our lovers. “Vicarious” is not a strong enough word to describe the effect of these mirror neurons. When we see someone else suffering or in pain, mirror neurons help us to read her or his facial expression and actually make us feel the suffering or the pain of the other person. These moments, I will argue, are the foundation of empathy and possibly of morality, a morality that is deeply rooted in our biology. Do you watch sports on television? If so, you must have noticed the many “reaction shots” in the stands: the fan frozen with anticipation, the fan ecstatic over the play. (This is especially true for baseball broadcasts, with all the downtime between pitches.) 為什麼我們在看電影時,會跟著劇中人的喜怒哀樂而情緒起伏,甚至一掬同情之淚?因為 大腦中的鏡像神經元替我們重新創造了電影中生離死別的場景,我們對劇中人產生同理心 ─我們知道他的感覺─因為我們自己也經驗過同樣的感覺。當我們看到銀幕上明星彼此親 吻時,大腦中在我們親吻愛人時活化的那些神經細胞也活化了。「替身」(vicarious) 這個字還不足以描述這些鏡像神經元的作用。當我們看到別人受苦時,鏡像神經元使我們 讀懂他臉上的表情而讓我們感受到別人的痛苦,我認為,在這個時候我們的感覺就是同理 心或道德的基礎。道德是有生物性基礎的。你有看電視轉播的球類比賽嗎?假如有,你就 會注意到觀眾席上的投球反應:觀眾因期待而暫時停止呼吸,全身僵住,如果籃球投中了 ,棒球打到了,觀眾會狂喜(這在棒球賽實況轉播時,特別明顯)。 -------------------- 評: 「替身」(vicarious)? 洪蘭前面用過「感同身受」一詞,明明很貼切這個英文字的意思,這裡卻偏偏要用「替身 」,不幸這個現成的中文詞,壓根兒不是「感同身受」的意思。 you must have noticed the many “reaction shots” in the stands 洪蘭: 你就會注意到觀眾席上的投球反應 “reaction shots” in the stands是對觀眾的「特寫鏡頭」。看過球賽轉播的都知道, 轉播單位常提供觀眾反應的畫面。洪蘭顯然不明白,也不去查一查,就硬著頭皮翻了。 而且,什麼球賽是在觀眾席上投球的?一看就該知道有問題。 (This is especially true for baseball broadcasts, with all the downtime between pitches.) 洪蘭: (這在棒球賽實況轉播時,特別明顯) with all the downtime between pitches 失蹤了。 棒球迷都知道,投手投球之間的短暫停頓 ,充滿了緊張的氣氛, 是讓人心跳暴衝的時刻。譯者搞不清楚球賽和轉播的過程, 前面還卯起來幹,到這裡索性視毀屍滅跡。 ----------------------------- These shots are effective television because our mirror neurons make sure that by seeing these emotions, we share them. To see the athletes perform is to perform ourselves. Some of the same neurons that fire when we watch a player catch a ball also fire when we catch a ball ourselves. It is as if by watching, we are also playing the game. We understand the players’ actions because we have a template in our brains for that action, a template based on our own movements. Since different actions share similar movement properties and activate similar muscles, we don’t have to be skilled players to “mirror ” the athletes in our brain. The mirror neurons of a non-tennis-playing fan will fire when watching a pro smash an overhead, because the non-tennis-playing fan has certainly made other kinds of overhead movements with his arm throughout his life; the equivalent neurons of a fan such as me, who also plays the game, will obviously be activated much more strongly. And if I’m watching Roger Federer, I bet my mirror neurons must be firing wildly, because I’m a big Federer fan. 我們大腦中的鏡像神經元讓我們在看到電視轉播時,感受到同樣的情緒,跟他們是一體的 。我們看到球員比賽就好像我們自己在比賽一樣,我們看到球員接到球時所活化的神經元 跟我們自己接到球時活化的一樣,我們瞭解球員的動作,因為我們大腦中有做那個動作的 樣板,這個樣板是以我們自己的肌肉動作為基礎所形成的。因為不同的行為其實有許多基 本動作是相同的,所以我們不必是傑出的運動員就能瞭解真正的運動員動用到的是哪些神 經元。不是網球好手的網球迷看到球員殺球時,他大腦的鏡像神經元一樣活化起來,因為 他一定曾用自己的手臂殺過球。像我這種參加過比賽的網球迷,大腦中鏡像神經元的活化 就更厲害了。假如我在看費德勒(Roger Federer)比賽的話,我相信我的鏡像神經元一 定活化得更厲害,因為我是費德勒的大球迷。 ----------------------------- 評: These shots are effective television 沒翻 指的是現場觀眾的特寫鏡頭,對電視觀眾很有感染力。 不翻不錯,倒也俐落。 繼續看下去....... ----------------------------- Mirror neurons undoubtedly provide, for the first time in history, a plausible neurophysiological explanation for complex forms of social cognition and interaction. By helping us recognize the actions of other people, mirror neurons also help us to recognize and understand the deepest motives behind those actions, the intentions of other individuals. The empirical study of intention has always been considered almost impossible, because intentions were deemed too “mental” to be studied with empirical tools. How do we even know that other people have mental states similar to our own? Philosophers have mulled over this “problem of other minds” for centuries, with very little progress. Now they have some real science to work with. Research on mirror neurons gives them and everyone interested in how we understand one another some remarkable food for thought. 鏡像神經元在歷史上,第一次提供了一個解釋我們複雜的社會認知互動神經生理機制的可 能性。它幫助我們辨識別人的動作,也幫助我們瞭解這些動作背後深層的動機,以及跟別 人互動的意圖。心理學上一直認為研究意圖是個難度超高、幾乎不可能的事情,因為意圖 太抽象、太心智化了,不太容易用實驗儀器捕捉。我們怎麼知道別人有跟我們一樣的心智 狀態?哲學家為了這個「別人的心智問題」已經思索幾百年,都沒有什麼進展,但是現在 鏡像神經元的研究給了他們以及所有對人如何瞭解彼此有興趣的人,一個可以思考的材料 。 ----------------------------- 評: Mirror neurons undoubtedly provide, for the first time in history, a plausible neurophysiological explanation for complex forms of social cognition and interaction. 洪蘭:鏡像神經元在歷史上,第一次提供了一個解釋我們複雜的社會認知互動神經生理機 制的可能性 「複雜的社會認知互動神經生理機制」 這這這........ 這是中文嗎?洪蘭居然是「搶救國文教育聯盟」的一份子! 當作:對於複雜的社會認知與社會互動,鏡像神經元為我們提供了一項 神經生理學方面的可能解釋,而這是前所未有的。 ----------------------------- Consider the teacup experiment I dreamed up some years back, which I’ll discuss in considerable detail later. The test subjects are shown three video clips involving the same simple action: a hand grasping a teacup. In one, there is no context for the action, just the hand and the cup. In another, the subjects see a messy table, complete with cookie crumbs and dirty napkins —the aftermath of a tea party, clearly. The third video shows a neatly organized tabletop, in apparent preparation for the tea party. In all three video clips, a hand reaches in to pick up the teacup. Nothing else happens, so the grasping action observed by the subjects in the experiment is exactly the same. The only difference is the context. 多年前我曾經做過一個茶杯的實驗(我下面還會更詳細的討論它)。我給受試者看三小段 的錄影帶,都是一隻手握著一個杯子這個簡單的動作。一段錄影帶中是沒有背景的,就只 是一隻手握著一個杯子。第二段的背景是髒亂的桌子,上面有餅乾屑、用過的餐巾,很顯 然是茶敘之後的情形。第三段是整整齊齊的桌子,上面排了餐巾和點心,顯然是在準備茶 敘。在這三段錄影帶中都有一隻手握著一個杯子,動作一模一樣,惟一的差別是背景。 ----------------------------- dreamed up (憑空設想)沒翻。 ----------------------------- Do mirror neurons in the brains of our subjects note the difference in the contexts? Yes. When the subject is observing the grasping scene with no context at all, mirror neurons are the least active. They are more active when the subject is watching either of the scenes and most active when watching the neat scene. Why? Because drinking is a much more fundamental intention for us than is cleaning up. The teacup experiment is now well known in the field of neuroscience, but it is not an isolated result: solid empirical evidence suggests that our brains are capable of mirroring the deepest aspects of the minds of others—intention is definitely one such aspect— at the fine-grained level of a single brain cell. This is utterly remarkable. Equally remarkable is the effortlessness of this simulation. We do not have to draw complex inferences or run complicated algorithms. Instead, we use mirror neurons. 受試者大腦中的鏡像神經元,會因為這些背景的不同而有不同程度的活化嗎?答案是會。 當受試者只看到手握著杯子、沒有任何背景時,他大腦中鏡像神經元活化的程度最低;在 看準備茶敘的背景圖時,活化得最多。為什麼?因為喝茶的基本意圖比善後強多了。這個 實驗現在在神經科學上很有名,但它不是單一的結果:有許多實驗顯示我們的大腦可以模 仿別人最深層的心智意圖─而這意圖是以單細胞這麼小的單位來界定的,這真是了不起。 更了不起的是這個模擬是毫不費力的,我們完全不需要去找繁複的參考資料,也不需要做 複雜的運算,只要用鏡像神經元就可以做到了。 ----------------------------- 評: Do mirror neurons in the brains of our subjects note the difference in the contexts? 洪蘭:受試者大腦中的鏡像神經元,會因為這些背景的不同而有不同程度的活化嗎? 當作:受試者大腦中的鏡像神經元,是否注意到這些情境的不同之處呢? solid empirical evidence 洪蘭:有許多實驗.... 當作:可靠的實驗證據 solid empirical evidence suggests that our brains are capable of mirroring the deepest aspects of the minds of others—intention is definitely one such aspect— at the fine-grained level of a single brain cell. 洪蘭:有許多實驗顯示我們的大腦可以模仿別人最深層的心智意圖─而這意圖是以單細胞 這麼小的單位來界定的, 原文哪來的「界定」? 7/6 補註: 我本來不明白哪裡跑出「界定」,今天重看了一下, 發現原來洪蘭把 definitely (無疑 without any doubt) 當作 definition 了!一個在美國唸書、居住多年的學者, 居然連definitely什麼意思都不知道. It is definitely ridiculous! 當作:可靠的實驗證據間接顯示(suggests=imply; state something indirectly ): 我們在腦部單細胞的細微層次,就能模仿他人心智的最深層面向,而意圖無疑是 這些面向中的一部分。 作者認為這些實驗指向某些可能的結論,但並沒有那麼肯定,還有幾分希望或保留的語氣 ;洪蘭卻說得像是塵埃落定的結論似的。 ----------------------------- 博客來的書摘底下略過原文幾頁的內容,應該只是節選的緣故。 我手頭沒有翻譯的紙本書,無法比對。 但對於如此離譜的翻譯,我的耐性也只到這裡了,暫時就此打住。 -- There are a lot of things we don't want to know about the people we love. --- Chuck Palahniuk -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From: 203.67.161.19
Louis819:悲劇…… 07/05 09:40
withdream:那些獎項也要先看看審議的標準啊... 07/05 09:50
withdream:學術界可悲的某些生態法則 07/05 09:50
btfy:整個藝文界不總是說:誰是我朋友我是誰朋友。人脈二字 其妙無 07/05 09:59
btfy:比。 07/05 10:00
johanna:請問可以借轉 Translation 板嗎? 07/05 10:16
decorum:歡迎轉文 07/05 10:17
johanna:轉錄至看板 Translation 07/05 10:18
widec:最近有人電話打不停了哈 07/05 10:25
還沒接到嚴厲指責的電話,如果有此榮幸,我會以Part 3、Part 4伺候的
paleomort:我只想知道出版社為什麼還要找她譯,她的譯費應該很高吧 07/05 11:51
btfy:譯者有知名度,有名人效應,是一種好宣傳。魚幫水水幫魚 正向 07/05 11:54
btfy:循環,只是苦了讀者。 07/05 11:55
cching1021:她的翻譯很糟是頗有名的事了 大概還是有很多人會被她 07/05 12:10
cching1021:的名號吸引去買書吧.......... 07/05 12:10
swimbert:以她對別人的嚴厲要求來看,真的應該先對自己嚴厲些 07/05 12:11
d123xxx:推對翻譯品質的要求 隨意在書局走也會看到很多翻譯的悲劇 07/05 12:32
rerun:請直接寄給他們! 07/05 13:32
zeSil:但是也很多人看到名號就駐足不前呢XD 07/05 13:45
suscym:可能邊吃便當邊翻譯吧 07/05 14:52
fallengunman:洪蘭居然是「搶救國文教育聯盟」的一份子 XDDDD 07/05 17:00
joshia:板上有藝文教育線的記者嗎?感覺已經可以出動了... 07/05 17:03
luciferii:她沒有一本不是「倉促間翻成」 07/05 18:18
headcase:期待Part3、Part4 XDDDDDD 07/05 19:29
nbmrockon:推! 07/05 21:38
Alcala:推!! 期待再度分享 07/06 00:28
dennis10a:推 07/06 01:45
reshape:推你的好奇心!可惜了這些書。 07/06 02:51
x246855:推 07/06 12:38
BrightPeak:轉錄至看板 Gossiping 07/06 13:20
NaZiTiGer:PUSH 07/06 13:59
Chengheong:洪蘭居然是「搶救國文教育聯盟」的一份子 XDDDD 07/06 15:49
forthewill:悲哀 07/06 18:40
※ 編輯: decorum 來自: 203.67.161.17 (07/06 19:02)
fukyou:希望看到D大繼續分享 07/06 22:25
raiderho:推一個 07/09 01:41
sneak: 悲劇…… https://muxiv.com 11/06 17:02
sneak: 推對翻譯品質的要求 隨 http://yofuk.com 12/31 03:18