作者l10nel (小失)
看板Eng-Class
標題Re: [考題] What would you do _____?
時間Thu Apr 11 19:04:45 2013
※ 引述《hopeliu (阿翔)》之銘言：
: ※ 引述《Darren37 (小巴)》之銘言：
: : 版上的學長/姐好
: : 小弟有個問題想請教一下
: : 題目：
: : What would you do ________?
: : (A) when you were bitten by a snake
: : (B) if he lied to you
: : (C) were you in my position
: : (D) if you are in the elevator and it stops between floors
: : (E) if you had lost your power of sight for just one day
: : 依據題目是與 現在事實相反之假設
: : 所以B對 而C是B的倒裝句 這兩個選項沒有問題
: : D、E時態上很明顯就錯了
: : 我想請問的是A選項
: : 以中文翻譯是： 當你被蛇咬時，你會做什麼？
: : 請問文法上是錯在哪裡呢？
: 推 l10nel:when也可帶出假設句，功能類似if，(a)選項would...were代表 04/06 09:00
: → l10nel:未來機會很小的假設(remote/tentative/hypothetical)。 04/06 09:02
: 請教l10nel大，
: 若(a)針對remote/tentative/hypothetical層面來看，
: 這裡的"機會很小"是指跟(1)、(2)相比? 亦即,是(1)、(2)的remote句子?
: (1) What would you do when you are bitten by a snake?
: (2) What will you do when you are bitten by a snake?
: 謝謝
: → l10nel:by snake是漏抄了a => by a snake。但(a)選項更適用於一個 04/06 09:05
: → l10nel:在談論過去事情的語境，when表時間，因為這點，猜測(a)不會 04/06 09:07
: → l10nel:列為出題人設想的"標準"答案。 04/06 09:08
: :所以 大大的意思是 when...were 雖然是表示假設語氣 但是表達的是對過去的假設的
: :意思嗎?
: :不過這樣子 就不算是假設了 只算是個問句 當你過去被蛇咬時 你做了什麼...
: ◢▆▅▄▃ ╰(〒皿〒)╯ ▃▄▅▆◣
: → yangivy:也想問110的意思是 when也可帶出與事實相反的假設？ 04/06 11:48
: → yangivy:例如 When I were you, I would...這是正常的句子？ 04/06 11:49
: → yangivy:還是就如字典寫的considering that,用在以條件為主的假定 04/06 11:53
: → yangivy:狀況？ 04/06 11:55
: → l10nel:Darren37:一個可能意思,是對未來的假設,不是過去. 這意思, 04/06 13:50
: → l10nel:現在式are bitten更常見. 04/06 13:50
: → l10nel:另一個意思就是你說的,對過去的描述,這就不是假設. 04/06 13:52
: 推 l10nel:yangivy:這是未來不知是否發生的事,所以不該說與"事實"相反 04/06 14:01
: → l10nel:這是對未來的假設,不同於considering that是對事實的判斷. 04/06 14:03
: 推 leoblack:我以為應該用What would you do when you had been 04/06 21:47
: → leoblack:bitten by a snake. 04/06 21:48
推 l10nel:不要把重點放在比較不同說法裡，事件發生的絕對機率高低， 04/10 06:15
→ l10nel:畢竟被蛇咬這件事，如果處在同一現實狀況，真正發生的機率 04/10 06:16
→ l10nel:不會因為說話用了哪個字而有所改變。畢竟，那tentativeness 04/10 06:17
→ l10nel:是存在說話者心裡，我們只要知道would指非過去事件時，表達 04/10 06:20
→ l10nel:出這tentativeness就好; 兩子句時態最好一致; if比when常用 04/10 06:26
推 tijj:
http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Eng-Class/M.1358347388.A.A7D.html 04/10 10:48
→ tijj:套一句hoch博士說的話. 聽不負責任建議 倒不如記得要跟母語 04/10 10:49
→ tijj:人士教授確認(A)的合法性. 04/10 10:49
→ tijj:以R/T/H來看,(A)不宜跟(1)、(2)比較,是因為它是 04/10 10:49
→ tijj:ungrammatical (*) . 這才是重點. 04/10 10:50
→ zofloya:why is it ungrammatical? could you explain to me? i 04/10 11:13
→ zofloya:am really interested and eager to learn about it 04/10 11:14
→ zofloya:it sounds okay to me, though i don't know how to 04/10 11:14
→ zofloya:analyze it 04/10 11:15
→ hopeliu:好。謝謝t大指導。 04/10 22:25
→ tijj:Then I guess you are not an English speaker; otherwise A) 04/11 10:13
→ tijj:should contradict your ears, which is the best and 04/11 10:14
→ tijj:easiest explanation. 04/11 10:15
→ tijj::) 04/11 10:15
→ zofloya:indeed, i am not, aside from my poor ears, any more 04/11 11:58
→ zofloya:specific grammatical rules for this sentence? 04/11 11:58
→ tijj:Instead, I would say in your grammatical book are 04/11 17:35
→ tijj:important statements that illustrate t/r/h situations. 04/11 17:35
某人說問句 What would you do when you were bitten by a snake? 是 ungrammatical
，說如果認為它沒問題就是不負責任的建議，結果，被問起論據何在時，答案竟是，因為
某某 "native speaker" 認為它聽起來很刺耳，誰要是覺得它 OK 那大概是不習慣說
英語？這實在才是不負責任又空洞的理由，更別說那狂妄、不尊重人的語氣了。
如果沒見過這種用法，對它存疑，至少該上網搜一搜吧。雖然我們知道，網路上的英文不
能照單全收，但我們要抱著一種研究、好奇的心態，仔細看看語料、語境和發生頻率，再
做出一番判斷。
以下列出 "what would you do when you [past tense]" 的前一兩頁搜索結果。組合太
多，只查找 were/had/got/couldn't 幾個常見動詞。每一行結果，我很快點進去看看語
境，大致分為以下三種意義：
1. [past] when 表時間（基本意義），指過去發生的事。
2. [temporal] when 表時間，但語境似乎是一個想像中的世界。
3. [if] when 基本上可用 if 取代，表示「假設、如果」，意義上不再是指涉過去時間
，而是未來或想像情境的假設，when 子句的事件可能發生可能不發生。
"what would you do when you were"
[if] what would you do when you were the leader of your country?
[if] What would you do when you were to be stuck on a mountain with Emily and
Lucas?
[if] What would you do when you were so drunk that you called George W.
Bush's phone and invited him for dinner...
and he would come over?
[if] What would you do when you were alone in the world?
[if] What would You do when You were able to Create your own Reality?
[past] “What would you do when you were bullied?”
[if] What would you do when you were grounded from xbox?
[if] What would you do when you were single?
[temporal] What would you do when you were free?
[past] What would you do when you were younger that you would not do now?
[if] What would you do when you were invisible for 1 day?
[if] What would you do when you were doing a gig and your nose started
itching:
[past] OKAY. WHAT WOULD YOU DO WHEN YOU WERE DOWN THERE?
[temporal] If you had time for everything what would you do when you were
done?
[if] You ask yourself, what would you do when you were a shiny knight, a
damsel in distress or or the wise mage leading a group of adventurers
[if] Let us imagine a situation... Or let's make it more blunt, what would
you do when you were being despised by a tetchy foreigner gung-ho about
trashing your race in your own nation? （這個例子，原文還先明確告訴你「
imagine a situation」）
[if] What would you do when you were given the second chance to live?
[temporal] Nobody was happier than you when your boyfriend managed to debut
and got his (more than fair) share of fame but what would you do when you
were forced to break up with him?
[past] What would you do when you were upset?
[temporal] If you could go on vacation anywhere, where would it be? Who would
you invite? What would you do when you were there?
"what would you do when you had"
[if] What would you do when you had a difficult client?
[if] What would you do when you had a real life encounter with the most
important figure in your religion?
[if] What would you do when you had a lucid dream?
[past] But what would you do when you had performances, like the two leads ...
[if] In that instance of winging that may be true but what would you do when
you had to keep the friend busy while your wing is talking to his target?
[if] What would you do when you had to modify some PHP-Guestbook or Forum
just so it would fit into your page?
[if] What would you do when you had to pay rent and the only option for
employment involved the exploitation of the natural world?
[temporal] if you were accused of doing something that you know you didnt do,
what would you do when you had your appeal?
"what would you do when you got"
[if] WHAT WOULD YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT KILLED BY STINGER
[if] What would you do when you got stuck in traffic jam on a bus in your
life?
[if] What Would You Do When You Got A Chance of Your Lifetime
[if] What would you do when you got nothing to do ?
[if] what would you do when you got a problem with buy and sell.
[temporal] What would you do when you got there? Imagine no limitations. If
your life were perfect, where would you live? What kind of a home would you
have?
[temporal] If you could become the invisible man, where would you go and what
would you do when you got there?
[temporal] If someone offered to give you a free vacation trip anywhere in
world, where would you go? Why do you want to go to this place? What would
you do when you got there?
"what would you do when you couldn't"
[if] What would you do when you couldn't play video games anymore?
[past] What would you do when you couldn't find inspiration?
[if] What if a Jacket was possessed by a killer? What would you do when you
couldn’t take it off?
[temporal] What would you do when you couldn't find any solution to a
terribly important problem?
[if] God forbid - what would you do when you couldn't ride?
結果，高達六成的結果，語義是 if，這比我原先想像的還高。
你也許還是存疑，認為這些全都是「英語不好的人寫的不符英語文法的網路文章」，不足
代表什麼，那麼再來看看有沒有同樣的例子印成書本的：
1. A Gentle Guide to Research Methods - Page 112
Gordon Rugg, Marian Petre - 2007
What would you do when it came to writing up your results, and those results
included unpleasant truths about a group that you had come to like? It's
possible to end up feeling strong social bonds with the most unlikely
sounding individuals ...
2. Chemical Engineering Design and Analysis: An Introduction - Page 77
T. Michael Duncan, Jeffrey A. Reimer - 1998
What would you do when you encountered a new unit? But you don't need to
memorize operating equations. Instead, you need only learn how to create
tools to design and operate chemical engineering processes. Operating
equations are ...
3. Customer Service: Candidate Handbook ; S/NVQ Level 2 By Sally Bradley, 2003
If you were able to make a video recording of one day in your working life,
how would you like to appear? How would you react to what you see yourself
doing, what you look like and how you talk? What would you do when faced with
a difficult situation?
以上三本書的例子如果還認為不算數，最厲害的是以下這本：
4. Essentials of Early Childhood Education
By Carol Gestwicki, Jane Bertrand
Codes of Ethics
We noted earlier in the chapter that a profession has a code of ethics, which
is a statement of principle that governs moral behaviour and ethical
decisions. In Canada several professional organizations have developed code
of ethics statements for early childhood educators, to be used as a guide in
making day-to-day decisions.
Early childhood educators are frequently faced with ethical dilemmas in their
work with young children and their families:
‧ What would you do when a parent demanded to know who hit her child?
‧ What would you do when a co-worker complained to you about another
co-worker's treatment of a child?
‧ What would you do if a neighbour told you she heard had things about the
last centre vou worked in?
‧ What would your responsibility be when another teacher told you that
symptoms made her suspect child abuse, but that she was afraid to report it?
看到沒？最後的四個問句裡，作者用了三個 when，一個 if，在相同的語境、語義下，作
者不知不覺地、或者刻意有計劃地交替變換 if/when 的使用，這或許可以讓文章不致呆
板。大家應該知道有個英文寫作原則：用各種同義字表達同一概念，讓文章更生動。
那你大概要問，有沒有文法書注意到這個「好像還是不太對勁」的 when 用法的？有的：
首先，English Grammar in Use, 3e 直接這樣告訴你：
What would you do if you were bitten by a snake? (not when you were bitten)
是的，這本基礎英語（中小學程度？）教材直接嚴禁你用 when 代替 if 的假設。原因？
我懶得去察看它是否提供原因，但如果說明原因，大概不出這個：when 就是指事件的時
間啊，就這麼簡單，把這「規則」背下來就是了！
如果你想學的英語只限於這個程度，只想應付考試，那就請遵照這本書的教導，一律嚴格
乖乖使用 if。日後你看到網路上、書本上用 when 的，你就笑它不合文法，繼續用你的
「when = 時間」概念去理解好了，反正這是你自己的知識，別人管不著。也不必再往下
看了。
如果你關心、想認識、看懂真實世界的英語，包括網路上應該算是母語人士寫出來的英語
（小心辨認！），包括寫入書冊的英語，那麼多注意詳盡一點的、高級程度的、描述性質
的（而非而「老師說了算」）英語文法書怎麼說：
Grammar of the English Tense System, Declerck, p673
VI. The expression of irrealis or tentativeness in when-clauses
Under certain conditions, an adverbial when-clause can use the conditional
perfect to represents its contents as ‘irrealis’, i.e. as counterfactual
(unreal) or tentative.
...
[examples]
...
Sentences like these would appear to run counter to the widespread belief
that when-clauses differ from if-clauses in that they are presupposed to be
factual. The truth is that adverbial when-clauses presuppose actualization of
the when-clause situation in some possible world, but not necessarily in the
actual world. (The when-clause and the head clause must, however, always
refer to the same possible world.) Sometimes the world in question involves
situations which at some time or other are expected to actualize later. This
is the case in sentences like the following:
John said he would commit suicide when a nuclear war broke out.
The speaker here refers to a world of expectation (existing in John’s mind)
in which the when-clause situation actualizes. He does not say anything about
actualization of the when-clause situation in the real world.
這裡的 when a nuclear war broke out，指的就是說話人心中一個假想世界的情況。既
然是假想世界，和真實世界沒有任何關聯，就沒有對事件在真實世界發生或不發生有所交
代、評估；換句話說，在現實中可能發生，可能不發生。
回去看看前面例子，有的直截了當告訴你這是假想狀況，其他如「當上國家領導人」、「
茫到打電話邀請布希來共進晚餐」、「遇到難以應付的客戶」等等，和「被蛇咬」一樣，
在現實中發生機率有高有低，但是不是「when 代表時間時」的必然發生，也不是「與現
實相反」的絕對不可能。
when 子句可用現在式，可用過去式，兩者都可代表「if、條件、可能」。現在式就很直
接，大剌剌表示這事情不無可能，過去式則表達說話者心態上的一種委婉、客氣、不確定
感、remoteness、tentativeness，你總不希望以現在式的直接，讓對方聽了以為你希望
他真的有一天被蛇咬吧？
結論：What would you do when you were bitten by a snake? 如果語境不支持代表「
過去事實」的意義，另一個意思就是「你如果/萬一被蛇咬，你會怎麼做？」的假設意義
。
以上應該已有足夠資料證明、論述這個用法的合理性。瞭解這個用法的存在，並不等於寫
作時、尤其考試時就建議你大膽使用，因為你已經知道，這世上有多少「老師」只允許你
使用他所允准的那一套規則，而那套規則跟現實可能有一段不小的差距。自己學習如何判
斷真假是非才是要緊的事。
--
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◆ From: 76.198.133.1
推 davidwu0123:你回我的那篇我原本沒辦法理解你的意思 04/11 20:14
→ davidwu0123:現在我知道你想說甚麼了 04/11 20:14
→ davidwu0123:想請問一下你每一句前面的 [if] [past] 是自行分類 04/11 20:15
→ davidwu0123:還是語料系統自己分類出來的意思? 04/11 20:15
→ davidwu0123:另外受益良多 感謝 04/11 20:16
推 zofloya:thanks 04/11 23:22
推 Lesqueer:我跪... 04/12 01:42
→ l10nel:是我自己根據前後文很快加以歸類的，也許少數幾個仍可商榷 04/12 02:02
推 chevalierxd:這不推不行... 04/12 05:10
→ tijj:david的質疑是對的,語料的取材不可能如此草率. 04/12 14:11
※ 編輯: l10nel 來自: 76.198.133.1 (04/13 03:32)
→ Chengheong:胡扯一通 04/13 13:27