Corman GDNet+ Member since: 10/23/2001 From: Crown Point, IN, United States
Posted - 7/4/2010 11:50:49 PM
Sad news is that I see nearly 90%+ (my own personal stats, this can truely be
all over the place) of non-paid/voulenteer development in games end up like
this over and over again until even the very talented and hard working
parties are jaded beyond belief (myself included over past projects). And is
usually broken down like this:
1. A large number of people under estimate the task(s) at hand and equally
over estimate their own or other people skills to suceed or follow through
with these tasks.
2. Join a project believing a lot of tangible/end usable work has been done
and as soon as they get access to the inner circle feel that every thing was
just smoke and mirrors and is nothing more than just sugar coated talk.
3. Want to be part of something but feel that everyone else will teach them
or carry them along to greatness.
4. Everyone wants to be the idea guy/gal and getting in on the ground floor
everyone pulls in a different direction or trys to inject their own personal
goals in everything they actualy do.
5. Feels that they are only here to be the designer and drops the project
when they feel the coders or artists (if any) are not doing anything or what
6. Are not aware of the large dead zone periods where there is nothing to
show and jump ship feeling it is not moving at their pace.
7. View it as a personal elective that they do not have to do so they feel
that any sort of procrastination is fine since any work they do is worth more
than what they are getting in return (that is nothing).
8. Like shinny new things and will move on to another project if it looks
like it has more people interested or that it will go farther.
9. Everyone is in different locations around the world and have drastically
different schedules that do not aline with others so ant any given moment it
feels like you are the only one doing any work.
10. Feel that they are indeed doing all the work as everyone else sits back
and slave drives them for something they are giving freely of themselves to
11. Think different tasks depend on other tasks to be finished before they do
their work (ex. "engine" must be finished before artist start creating
12. Honestly do not know where to start for a good foundation and everyone
scatters to different parts they believe are more important.
13. Do not like the coding style of everyone else and gives up on "princple".
14. Different levels of experience clash.
15. It was nothing more than an impulse moment and just kind of forget about
it because it really did not mean that much to them in the first place.
16. The person who started the project usually is the one who trys to take
the leadership role even if their skill set is not fully up to par with
managing a larger team and more times than not are not open to taking some
one elses lead in return.
17. Do not want to take suggestions from the people with real experience or
at least the ones who have tried a particular route and maybe even failed (I
see the wheel re-invented over and over with wrong paths retaken just because
people do not want to listen to honest advice out of spite).
18. Some people are driven by what you can see and play with and sometimes if
it does not get to that point soon enough the non-technical people usually
19. More people worry about making engines than games or planning for a
future of re-usability and expandability that more than likely even with
success will not come.
20. Really are not into it more than to have a social group that they can
21. Spend more time in idle planning and endless research for the "silver
bullet" solution that nothing ever happens since they believe they have all
the time they want.
22. Feel that no work can be done until they get more people or every
"position" seat is filled.
23. Hold out hopping to nab a professional to fix all their problems.
24. Aim too high and never target a project with a subset of tasks that are
best suited to the people at hand.
25. People just get dropped in with the basic feeling from others that they
should know what they should do and work on right off the bat.
26. They never do any small team building projects to get used to everyone
and have early sucesses.
27. Various age ranges and mental/physical maturity that may or may not be
shared with others that causes clashes or misunderstandings do to how they
talk or express themselves.
28. Ideas really are a dime a dozen and people become so inflexible to
changing anything that they sabbotage what can be done for what they beleive
should be done to the letter.
29. Everyone is a zealot over something, be it os, compiler, editor, art
tools, or coding style and fight over thigns that really do not matter.
30. Just do not speak up and feel nothing is worth fighting over and just
leave in silence never to be heard from again.
This list is no where close to being exhaustive and could go on and on but is
meant just to give a rough idea of some of the difficulties involved. So
yeah, this is basically venting some frustrations I have come across and I am
sure you and other have as well. There is no single solution or best pratice
is this case since these sorts of groups are all over the spectrum. The only
real solid advice is keep all these things in mind and understand what makes
people tick and what they think and feel (like from the list above) and work
to improve all the points even if it ends up being yourself and or your
Nihathrael Member since: 7/21/2010 From: Freising
Posted - 7/21/2010 4:34:00 AM
Joining a new project with an existing code base means working into a lot of
code, this often seems like a big hurdle for especially fairly novice
programmers to take.
It's the expectation of "I'm joining this new project and i'm going to change
the world by doing it" which makes a lot of people leave quickly, when they
see it's not going to happen.
Most of the people still underestimate the work they have to do, even if you
tell them it's going to be a lot, so don't worry to much about scaring them
Here are some counter measures that can help (again, in my experience):
- Make clear to new people that working on a project takes a lot of time and
is not always fun but even work sometimes
- Make them contribute their first 3 fixes through patches before you give
them repository access (It won't bother them and it will help you keep the
repo clear of unnecessary users)
- Comment your code (yes it's that simple)
- Have a bug tracker so people can find themselves tasks easily (and most
importantly, without relying on your help. Working autonomously feels great!)
- Let the new contributer choose on what he wants to work
- We have an in-code tutorial which takes you through the important classes.
It's basically comments inside the code explaining what each portion of code
does on a fairly high level and then says "To continue your journey, now
check out xyz.file". It's a little adventure through the code if you will. A
lot of new folks have found it quite helpful.
- Make sure you thank the contributer for his contributions! In open source
world this is all they are going to get! So if someone supplies a patch,
thank him for it. If he continually contributes, add him to the credits. I
know this hard for us computer folks, but saying "Thank you!" really is a
- Make them feel part of a team. Always talk in terms of "we are releasing a
new version where we implemente a, b and c." "We have to tackle this new
- Create an IRC channel where you meet up with people regularly(this can be
hard if you live in different time zones) and require regular contributers to
join when they work on the game or even better always when they are online.
Again this is a team building experience to everyone and you get to know each
other fairly well. This will also help new people as if experienced
contributers are online as often as possible, rather simple questions can be
answered quickly instead of taking the new guy ages to figure out.
"May the Balance be with U"(願平衡與你同在)
視窗程式設計（Windows CLR Form）遊戲架構設計（Game Application Framework）
遊戲工具設計（Game App. Tool Design ）
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 126.96.36.199
推 dalireal:Push :) 08/05 21:29
※ 編輯: NDark 來自: 188.8.131.52 (08/05 21:40)
推 whatzzz:超讚 很多我真的都遇到Orz... 08/05 21:43
推 F23ko:其實..... 不管什麼非營利團隊都一樣，不一定是遊戲..... 08/05 21:52
→ F23ko:不是靠「薪水」維繫住的團體通常很脆弱...... 08/05 21:53
推 asleisureto:我們也是非商業性質的同人團隊,這篇文列的一些問題也 08/05 22:22
→ asleisureto:都有碰過...可是我們團隊現在碰到的最大問題這篇文沒 08/05 22:23
→ asleisureto:列出來...就是遊戲做出來後呢? 08/05 22:24
→ asleisureto:那些眾人唾棄的商業武俠三國OLG都有不小名氣+收入 08/05 22:25
→ asleisureto:可是同人遊戲始終困死在小圈圈裡(這情況也不只我們團) 08/05 22:25
推 ddavid:你需要的是真正強大的品質（至少在特定一個方面），然後就 08/05 22:29
→ ddavid:是依賴網路的行銷（包括口耳相傳），最後就是一點（可能很 08/05 22:30
→ ddavid:大點）運氣。 08/05 22:30
→ ddavid:品質－－如TYPE-MOON的劇本或東方超精彩的音樂跟彈幕，而且 08/05 22:31
→ ddavid:要有很鮮明的特色。 08/05 22:32
→ ddavid:行銷－－這就看手段了，反正要將遊戲推出去絕對不是同人展 08/05 22:32
→ ddavid:擺個攤願者上鈎就夠的，如果你很有野心的話。 08/05 22:33
→ ddavid:運氣－－你什麼也不能做，但至少運氣真的來時別漏掉。 08/05 22:34
→ ddavid:不過這也要看做這個同人遊戲一開始的初衷是什麼就是。如果 08/05 22:36
→ ddavid:一開始就不是為了有野心要商業化什麼的，其實你有第二點的 08/05 22:36
→ ddavid:一半大概就夠了。 08/05 22:36
推 asleisureto:其實我們遊戲宣傳的很兇(相較其他同人game而言) 08/05 22:36
→ asleisureto:但仍是打不開來...其實我覺得同人在創意跟熱情上遠勝 08/05 22:38
推 ddavid:所以那就看你要的是什麼了。對於一個沒有野心的同人團體， 08/05 22:39
→ asleisureto:商業那些萬年OLG,可是說到打知名度就完全被電假的 08/05 22:39
→ ddavid:困死小圈圈本來就是常態，因為本來就沒想要離開。所以你想 08/05 22:39
→ ddavid:要建立名氣吸引人才轉商業公司呢？還是想要把成果拿來當做 08/05 22:40
→ ddavid:進入現有遊戲公司的階梯之一？或是你只是為了把自己創造的 08/05 22:41
→ ddavid:世界讓更多人看到？ 08/05 22:41
推 asleisureto:都有吧...野心也是有的 但再多野心仍需向現實低頭 08/05 22:44
→ asleisureto:我是覺得怎麼做遊戲是個課題 但遊戲完成後又是另個 08/05 22:45
→ asleisureto:課題 不過感覺不多人探討...(大部分都先死在前關了) 08/05 22:46
推 ddavid:同人遊戲的推銷，我想是「賠錢也要讓更多人看到」XD 08/05 22:55
→ ddavid:畢竟名氣還沒建立起來就想著要賺錢是不切實際的。再來就是 08/05 22:55
→ ddavid:要有一項非常非常鮮明的強項或特色，如果一個同人遊戲就只 08/05 22:56
→ ddavid:是個平均水準略好一點的遊戲，那也是一下就被掩蓋掉了，往 08/05 22:57
→ ddavid:往不如某方面超強但其它項目略低的作品來得容易出名。 08/05 22:57
推 ddavid:所以抓到你遊戲的最強項，大言不慚地推銷下去，讓那些看了 08/05 23:01
→ ddavid:好奇或不以為然的傢伙有機會去碰到它，最後用實力證明你到 08/05 23:01
→ ddavid:底是真的大言不慚還是真正的強猛。只要你讓他們覺得是後者 08/05 23:03
→ ddavid:你就有機會了XD 08/05 23:03
推 whatzzz:整體製作水準上的提升吧 讓人有"這是商業作"的錯覺阿XD 08/05 23:22
→ whatzzz:畢竟掏錢買真的是一回事... 08/05 23:23
推 linct:非營利團隊真的容易出現上述狀況...... 08/05 23:44
→ linct:我自己找的團隊就幾乎完全符合了（眼神死 08/05 23:44
推 AmosYang:有笑有推 XD 08/06 10:32
※ 編輯: NDark 來自: 184.108.40.206 (08/06 21:18)
推 hirabbitt:朝聖! 11/18 15:40
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