看板 GameDesign 關於我們 聯絡資訊
翻譯並節錄一個討論串的內容 連結如下,題目是非營利遊戲團隊與動機。 裡面提到大部分非營利遊戲團隊解散或無疾而終的原因,以及如何讓一個遊戲團隊的菜鳥 融入團隊。 Home >> Community >> Forums >> Software Engineering >> Online projects and motivation http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=575905 Corman GDNet+ Member since: 10/23/2001 From: Crown Point, IN, United States Posted - 7/4/2010 11:50:49 PM Sad news is that I see nearly 90%+ (my own personal stats, this can truely be all over the place) of non-paid/voulenteer development in games end up like this over and over again until even the very talented and hard working parties are jaded beyond belief (myself included over past projects). And is usually broken down like this: 經過我自己的統計,很遺憾的說,百分之九十的非營利/自願遊戲開發都終結於這種情形(人 員離開)直到有群很努力又充滿狂熱的天才出現.而且這些團隊通常因為以下狀況解散: 1. A large number of people under estimate the task(s) at hand and equally over estimate their own or other people skills to suceed or follow through with these tasks. 過於低估分派的工作,過份高估自己或其他人能持續完成(他們的)工作的技能. 2. Join a project believing a lot of tangible/end usable work has been done and as soon as they get access to the inner circle feel that every thing was just smoke and mirrors and is nothing more than just sugar coated talk. 決定加入前,以為一些繁雜/底層的工作已經被別人做完了.但是進入狀況後才發現一堆事 情都還沒具體成型. 3. Want to be part of something but feel that everyone else will teach them or carry them along to greatness. 想要被指導. 4. Everyone wants to be the idea guy/gal and getting in on the ground floor everyone pulls in a different direction or trys to inject their own personal goals in everything they actualy do. 都想做設計,使得每個人實做的方向都不一樣. 5. Feels that they are only here to be the designer and drops the project when they feel the coders or artists (if any) are not doing anything or what they want. 都想做設計,但發現其他人(包含美術)不照他們的想法做事. 6. Are not aware of the large dead zone periods where there is nothing to show and jump ship feeling it is not moving at their pace. 絲毫感覺不到專案期限,以至於工作停留在原地. 7. View it as a personal elective that they do not have to do so they feel that any sort of procrastination is fine since any work they do is worth more than what they are getting in return (that is nothing). 因為專案沒有回報,因此延遲沒關係,作任何(其他的)事都好過於進行專案. 8. Like shinny new things and will move on to another project if it looks like it has more people interested or that it will go farther. 隨意的跳槽到另一個比較有前景的專案. 9. Everyone is in different locations around the world and have drastically different schedules that do not aline with others so ant any given moment it feels like you are the only one doing any work. 成員分佈在世界各地,而且也擁有不同的時程表.導致每個人似乎都獨立運作. 10. Feel that they are indeed doing all the work as everyone else sits back and slave drives them for something they are giving freely of themselves to do. 覺得自己是唯一認真的人.其他人只會指揮分派工作. 11. Think different tasks depend on other tasks to be finished before they do their work (ex. "engine" must be finished before artist start creating content, etc.) 真的下去作之前都以為那部份要等別人先完成.(比如說引擎要先完成才能開始製作美術內 容) 12. Honestly do not know where to start for a good foundation and everyone scatters to different parts they believe are more important. 不知道從何處開始.或是隨意抓取那些自認為重要的元件. 13. Do not like the coding style of everyone else and gives up on "princple". 僅因為原則否定其他人的寫作風格. 14. Different levels of experience clash. 工作經驗差距太大. 15. It was nothing more than an impulse moment and just kind of forget about it because it really did not mean that much to them in the first place. 專案的組成只是靈光一閃(即興)的idea. 16. The person who started the project usually is the one who trys to take the leadership role even if their skill set is not fully up to par with managing a larger team and more times than not are not open to taking some one elses lead in return. 專案發起人總是想管理. 17. Do not want to take suggestions from the people with real experience or at least the ones who have tried a particular route and maybe even failed (I see the wheel re-invented over and over with wrong paths retaken just because people do not want to listen to honest advice out of spite). 不接受有經驗人員的意見.(譬如說不要重新造輪子) 18. Some people are driven by what you can see and play with and sometimes if it does not get to that point soon enough the non-technical people usually drift away. 看到有成果能玩才會繼續留下來,尤其是那些技術能力較低的成員. 19. More people worry about making engines than games or planning for a future of re-usability and expandability that more than likely even with success will not come. 只想製作一個好引擎.卻導致專案無法完成. 20. Really are not into it more than to have a social group that they can brag about. 只是想獲取名聲. 21. Spend more time in idle planning and endless research for the "silver bullet" solution that nothing ever happens since they believe they have all the time they want. 花太多時間在研究銀子彈(無法完成的技術方法).導致於什麼也沒作. 22. Feel that no work can be done until they get more people or every "position" seat is filled. 只想等人員到齊才開始. 23. Hold out hopping to nab a professional to fix all their problems. 只想等個專家來幫他們解決問題. 24. Aim too high and never target a project with a subset of tasks that are best suited to the people at hand. 目標太高,而從未將專案解構為小工作,以至於每個人都沒辦法接下工作. 25. People just get dropped in with the basic feeling from others that they should know what they should do and work on right off the bat. 只是因為一個"其他人都該知道該怎麼作"想法(而發現其他人沒有)而離開. 26. They never do any small team building projects to get used to everyone and have early sucesses. 從未參與小組工作或完成專案過. 27. Various age ranges and mental/physical maturity that may or may not be shared with others that causes clashes or misunderstandings do to how they talk or express themselves. 成員間年齡相差過大導致溝通不良,因此造成代溝或誤解. 28. Ideas really are a dime a dozen and people become so inflexible to changing anything that they sabbotage what can be done for what they beleive should be done to the letter. 過份強調創意的不可侵犯性,導致專案沒有彈性.(改變目標就是破壞信仰) 29. Everyone is a zealot over something, be it os, compiler, editor, art tools, or coding style and fight over thigns that really do not matter. 對於技術過於狂熱,並互相爭執那些(對專案)一點也不重要的事. 30. Just do not speak up and feel nothing is worth fighting over and just leave in silence never to be heard from again. 從未表達,而且再也聽不到他的出現. This list is no where close to being exhaustive and could go on and on but is meant just to give a rough idea of some of the difficulties involved. So yeah, this is basically venting some frustrations I have come across and I am sure you and other have as well. There is no single solution or best pratice is this case since these sorts of groups are all over the spectrum. The only real solid advice is keep all these things in mind and understand what makes people tick and what they think and feel (like from the list above) and work to improve all the points even if it ends up being yourself and or your project itself. 這份清單可以不斷變長,但只是粗略地提出一些團隊會遇到的困難.基本上只是說明我曾經 遇過且我堅信其他團隊必定會遇到的問題. 對於各式各樣的團隊而言,沒有單一或最佳的解答. 唯一的方法就是全盤都考量,而且持續瞭解激勵(或使他們失去動機)每個成員的要素. 持續有進展,即便那些都變成自己的工作.要不然就好好保護自己. Nihathrael Member since: 7/21/2010 From: Freising Posted - 7/21/2010 4:34:00 AM Joining a new project with an existing code base means working into a lot of code, this often seems like a big hurdle for especially fairly novice programmers to take. 加入一個已經有進行中專案的團隊意思是有一堆程式碼,對於那些真正的新手來說是一個 大挑戰. It's the expectation of "I'm joining this new project and i'm going to change the world by doing it" which makes a lot of people leave quickly, when they see it's not going to happen. "期待加入新團隊就能改變世界"的想法通常會導致離開. Most of the people still underestimate the work they have to do, even if you tell them it's going to be a lot, so don't worry to much about scaring them away. 面試的時候先恐嚇新人,避免他(對成果)有過高的期待.(對工作則是過低.)即使會嚇跑一 些人. Here are some counter measures that can help (again, in my experience): 一些建議: - Make clear to new people that working on a project takes a lot of time and is not always fun but even work sometimes 明白的告訴新人,工作會很多,而且大多時間沒什麼樂趣. - Make them contribute their first 3 fixes through patches before you give them repository access (It won't bother them and it will help you keep the repo clear of unnecessary users) 至少三個更新之後才把Repository的權限放給新人. - Comment your code (yes it's that simple) 寫註解. - Have a bug tracker so people can find themselves tasks easily (and most importantly, without relying on your help. Working autonomously feels great!) 使用錯誤追蹤,讓每個人都知道該負責的工作.(而不是老來問你要幹麼.) - Let the new contributer choose on what he wants to work 讓新人在工作清單上選擇他想要進行的工作. - We have an in-code tutorial which takes you through the important classes. It's basically comments inside the code explaining what each portion of code does on a fairly high level and then says "To continue your journey, now check out xyz.file". It's a little adventure through the code if you will. A lot of new folks have found it quite helpful. 我們有一個程式碼層級的新手教學.意思是透過註解讓你瞭解這些註解的目的.與檔案間的 連結.這很有幫助(譯註:幫助瞭解專案,同時維持coding style) - Make sure you thank the contributer for his contributions! In open source world this is all they are going to get! So if someone supplies a patch, thank him for it. If he continually contributes, add him to the credits. I know this hard for us computer folks, but saying "Thank you!" really is a great motivation. 對於完成工作的成員表示肯定,公開的把他放在工作人員名單上. - Make them feel part of a team. Always talk in terms of "we are releasing a new version where we implemente a, b and c." "We have to tackle this new problem", etc. 工作像個團隊,讓團隊持續跟上發布新版本的計畫.讓大伙知道問題被實際解決. - Create an IRC channel where you meet up with people regularly(this can be hard if you live in different time zones) and require regular contributers to join when they work on the game or even better always when they are online. Again this is a team building experience to everyone and you get to know each other fairly well. This will also help new people as if experienced contributers are online as often as possible, rather simple questions can be answered quickly instead of taking the new guy ages to figure out. 建立即時通訊的管道,更好的情況是隨時都是上線的.讓成員間多瞭解彼此.快速回答問題. -- "May the Balance be with U"(願平衡與你同在) 視窗介面遊戲設計教學,討論,分享。歡迎來信。 視窗程式設計(Windows CLR Form)遊戲架構設計(Game Application Framework) 遊戲工具設計(Game App. Tool Design ) 電腦圖學架構及研究(Computer Graphics) -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ◆ From:
dalireal:Push :) 08/05 21:29
※ 編輯: NDark 來自: (08/05 21:40)
whatzzz:超讚 很多我真的都遇到Orz... 08/05 21:43
F23ko:其實..... 不管什麼非營利團隊都一樣,不一定是遊戲..... 08/05 21:52
F23ko:不是靠「薪水」維繫住的團體通常很脆弱...... 08/05 21:53
asleisureto:我們也是非商業性質的同人團隊,這篇文列的一些問題也 08/05 22:22
asleisureto:都有碰過...可是我們團隊現在碰到的最大問題這篇文沒 08/05 22:23
asleisureto:列出來...就是遊戲做出來後呢? 08/05 22:24
asleisureto:那些眾人唾棄的商業武俠三國OLG都有不小名氣+收入 08/05 22:25
asleisureto:可是同人遊戲始終困死在小圈圈裡(這情況也不只我們團) 08/05 22:25
ddavid:你需要的是真正強大的品質(至少在特定一個方面),然後就 08/05 22:29
ddavid:是依賴網路的行銷(包括口耳相傳),最後就是一點(可能很 08/05 22:30
ddavid:大點)運氣。 08/05 22:30
ddavid:品質--如TYPE-MOON的劇本或東方超精彩的音樂跟彈幕,而且 08/05 22:31
ddavid:要有很鮮明的特色。 08/05 22:32
ddavid:行銷--這就看手段了,反正要將遊戲推出去絕對不是同人展 08/05 22:32
ddavid:擺個攤願者上鈎就夠的,如果你很有野心的話。 08/05 22:33
ddavid:運氣--你什麼也不能做,但至少運氣真的來時別漏掉。 08/05 22:34
ddavid:不過這也要看做這個同人遊戲一開始的初衷是什麼就是。如果 08/05 22:36
ddavid:一開始就不是為了有野心要商業化什麼的,其實你有第二點的 08/05 22:36
ddavid:一半大概就夠了。 08/05 22:36
asleisureto:其實我們遊戲宣傳的很兇(相較其他同人game而言) 08/05 22:36
asleisureto:但仍是打不開來...其實我覺得同人在創意跟熱情上遠勝 08/05 22:38
ddavid:所以那就看你要的是什麼了。對於一個沒有野心的同人團體, 08/05 22:39
asleisureto:商業那些萬年OLG,可是說到打知名度就完全被電假的 08/05 22:39
ddavid:困死小圈圈本來就是常態,因為本來就沒想要離開。所以你想 08/05 22:39
ddavid:要建立名氣吸引人才轉商業公司呢?還是想要把成果拿來當做 08/05 22:40
ddavid:進入現有遊戲公司的階梯之一?或是你只是為了把自己創造的 08/05 22:41
ddavid:世界讓更多人看到? 08/05 22:41
asleisureto:都有吧...野心也是有的 但再多野心仍需向現實低頭 08/05 22:44
asleisureto:我是覺得怎麼做遊戲是個課題 但遊戲完成後又是另個 08/05 22:45
asleisureto:課題 不過感覺不多人探討...(大部分都先死在前關了) 08/05 22:46
ddavid:同人遊戲的推銷,我想是「賠錢也要讓更多人看到」XD 08/05 22:55
ddavid:畢竟名氣還沒建立起來就想著要賺錢是不切實際的。再來就是 08/05 22:55
ddavid:要有一項非常非常鮮明的強項或特色,如果一個同人遊戲就只 08/05 22:56
ddavid:是個平均水準略好一點的遊戲,那也是一下就被掩蓋掉了,往 08/05 22:57
ddavid:往不如某方面超強但其它項目略低的作品來得容易出名。 08/05 22:57
ddavid:所以抓到你遊戲的最強項,大言不慚地推銷下去,讓那些看了 08/05 23:01
ddavid:好奇或不以為然的傢伙有機會去碰到它,最後用實力證明你到 08/05 23:01
ddavid:底是真的大言不慚還是真正的強猛。只要你讓他們覺得是後者 08/05 23:03
ddavid:你就有機會了XD 08/05 23:03
whatzzz:整體製作水準上的提升吧 讓人有"這是商業作"的錯覺阿XD 08/05 23:22
whatzzz:畢竟掏錢買真的是一回事... 08/05 23:23
linct:非營利團隊真的容易出現上述狀況...... 08/05 23:44
linct:我自己找的團隊就幾乎完全符合了(眼神死 08/05 23:44
AmosYang:有笑有推 XD 08/06 10:32
※ 編輯: NDark 來自: (08/06 21:18)
hirabbitt:朝聖! 11/18 15:40