看板 KoreaStar 關於我們 聯絡資訊
※ [本文轉錄自 BLACKPINK 看板 #1SvILlOY ] 因為全文超長,心得先寫前面:雖然原文徵詢的對象是BLACKPINK粉絲,但其中一些關於 男粉的議題還滿有趣的。沒想到菲律賓跟馬來西亞竟然會看不起男性迷K-pop!台灣又是 什麼情況?雖然跟別人說自己喜歡K-pop女沒什麼的樣子,但好像也還存在著因為要保 持男子氣概或矜持,不能完全變身成「我好興奮呀!我好興奮呀!」那樣型態的觀念?原 文有些部分也很讓人驚訝,喜歡女團竟然還會被質疑不是直男?說起來批踢踢也是相對比 較「高齡」的論壇了,不知道板上有沒有像原文作者一樣的大齡粉絲?XD 原文:https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/blackpink-uk-tour 標題:Is it weird to be a man who loves K-pop girl bands? 愛上K-pop女團的男人很怪嗎? Being a man who likes girl bands can be a difficult social situation to navigate. How do you stand there, 6ft 2in and hairy, among a sea of pre-teens? We asked fans all over the world: is it as awkward being there as it can feel it will be? The overwhelming answer: not in the slightest 身為一個喜歡女子團體的男人,可能會陷入難以招架的社交情境。一個身高188公分、 毛髮茂密的漢子,站在一群青少年中間的畫面能見人嗎?我們詢問全球各地的粉絲: 置身那樣的環境之中,是否真如想像中那麼尷尬?答案一面倒地表示:一點也不! BY DAVID LEVESLEY Tuesday 21 May 2019 I love Blackpink. I’m not sure my office fully understand it and I’m not sure I do either: their polished, almost militaristic brand of pop has become an obsession with remarkable speed. It’s not entirely out of the blue (I had a guilty love of Japanese pop music in my teens) but still my office find it incredibly unusual: why do I, a hirsute homosexual in London, feel such a strong passion for a South Korean girl band who sing in a language I don’t understand? 我愛BLACKPINK,我不太確定辦公室裡的人是否完全理解這點,甚至可能我自己也不太清 楚。她們精緻且幾近「軍事化」的流行樂品牌,令人以顯著的速度沈迷其中。這並非無 跡可尋(青春期時的我曾對J-pop懷著一份有罪惡感的愛),但我的同事們仍認為這超級 古怪:一個住在倫敦、物理上毛很多的同性戀如我,為什麼會對一個唱著聽不懂語言的 南韓女團,產生如此強烈的熱情? https://i.imgur.com/FssvOUG.png
(譯註:自認毛很多的原文作者David Levesley) The thing is, it only seems odd because K-pop is still a new phenomenon. I love them as much as I love any great girl band: Destiny’s Child, Little Mix, Girls Aloud (the best girl band of all time – fight me). As a queer man I’ve always been drawn to the empowerment and aesthetic gaudiness of female-led pop, even more so when it’s a group of them doing choreography. That’s why I love Blackpink: they sing, they dance, they look fantastic. They’re more regimented – literally, in some senses – than my usual tastes, but I kinda love their balletic dedication to something as frivolous as pop music. 這一切之所以看起來很怪,只是因為K-pop仍為一股新潮流。我愛BLACKPINK,就像我愛 天命真女Destiny's Child、混合甜心Little Mix、嗆女生合唱團Girls Aloud(史上最 佳女團,不服來戰)等任何優秀女團一樣。做為一個怪男,我總是受由女性主導的流行 樂中,所蘊含的賦予權力概念及美學所吸引,當她們還能展現編舞時更是如此。這就是 為什麼我愛BLACKPINK:她們能歌善舞,而且一個個都美呆了。雖然就某些角度而言, 她們比我通常的喜好更加「受限」(字面上意義),但滿喜愛她們對輕挑如流行樂,所 秉持的優雅追求。 The natural next step of my love of Blackpink was to go see them live, which you'll be thrilled to know is upcoming. However, my colleagues were intrigued: wouldn’t I stand out like a sore thumb? That got me thinking: I know a lot of gay men who love Blackpink, but do I know anyone besides me who’d be at the gig? And even if some of them were there, won’t we be wildly outnumbered by teenaged girls? 我對BLACKPINK的愛,很自然地發展到去觀賞她們現場演出的下一步,大家都很高興這即 將到來。然而同事們很好奇:我在那邊難道不會顯得突兀嗎?這讓我想到,我認識喜愛 BLACKPINK的男同志,但除了我之外還有人會到場嗎?就算他們之中有人與我同行,我們 不會被廣大的青少女人海給淹沒嗎? This isn’t a complete anomaly to me: I once earned the ire of Ariana Grande’s younger fans on Twitter for insisting she not perform at the O2 while in the throes of PTSD and I once got hit in the face by a glitter cannon while reviewing a show in which I was the only audience member over the age of 16. But would I look like some sort of predator? Would there even be any other men? Are there, actually, many male fans? 這對我來說也不是完全異常的事了:我曾經因為在推特上堅持Ariana Grande受創傷後壓 力症候群影響,不會在O2體育館演出(譯註:2017年5月22日Ariana在曼徹斯特的演唱會 遭自殺炸彈攻擊,同月25日、26日在倫敦O2的演唱會因此取消),領教到一名年輕粉絲 的滔天大怒,也曾在一場只有我是唯一年紀超過16歲觀眾的演出中,慘遭彩花砲擊中臉 部,但這次去BLACKPINK演唱會,我會不會看上去像某種掠食者般怪異?那裡會有任何其 他男人嗎?真的有很多男粉嗎? And so I reached out to the fanbase. I reached out because I know they’re incredibly active, and because in my brief experience of interacting with them they seem lovely. I wanted to know: what’s it like being a male “Blink”? 於是我聯繫了BLACKPINK的粉絲群,因為我知道他們令人難以置信地活躍,在我之前短暫 與他們交流的經驗中,他們似乎滿可愛。我想知道的是:身為一個男BLINK是什麼感覺? The response was huge. I heard from hundreds of people, from teenagers to middle-aged divorcees, from Guatemala to India via metalheads in Greece, gay and straight, stans and casuals. In all I heard the same thing: online the fanbase looks, and is assumed to be, female yet hides a wealth of diversity. In person? There are a lot more dudes in the fanbase than you might think. 結果迴響相當踴躍。我收到年齡上至中年離婚者下至青少年,範圍遠及瓜地馬拉與經希 臘重金屬樂迷中介的印度,多達數百名或直男或同志或死忠或路人的意見,他們說的 都是同一件事:從網路上看,BLINKs被認為是女性居多,但暗藏著相當的多樣性;但在 現實中,男粉則比你所預料的多出許多。 In fact, part of this is simply the disparity between how K-pop is perceived in South Korea and how it is perceived in the rest of the world. “In Korea most fans are of the opposite gender than the group themselves. That is, most girl groups have a majority male fanbase in Korea,” explained Muhammad, an 18-year-old fan from America. 事實上,這種情形有部分單純是源自K-pop在南韓與在世界其他地方被認知的方式不同。 18歲的美國粉絲Muhammad說,大多數南韓粉絲的性別會與支持團體的性別相反,也就是 說,大多數女團在南韓的粉絲,是以男性居多 “There are specific groups in K-pop that are dominated by men especially in concerts,” added 22-year-old Filipino Andre Sanchez. “In concerts, there is something called fan chants. You can really hear that when it is their concert it is really dominated by male fans.” 22歲的菲律賓粉絲Andre Sanchez補充:「有幾個團的粉絲群是由男性完全統治,演唱會 上尤其明顯,因為有『應援』這回事,在這些團的表演中,可以清楚聽見男粉壓倒性的 能量。」 Outside of South Korea, it can be a little harder to admit that, as a man, you’re a fan of K-pop. In some countries it was actively looked down on: “My dad doesn’t support me for being a fanboy. He said that it makes me less of a man,” said 18-year-old Filipino fan Angelo. “Being a male K-pop fan in my country, Malaysia, is a bit looked-down upon, but it didn't really bother me as much as I was more focused on how I will finally get to see the girls whom I adore,” explained 17-year-old Jas. But in others, like Singapore, being a K-pop fan is seen as completely normal. “All my male friends were pretty envious and jealous over me going [to see Blackpink],” said Kev, a 15-year-old in Singapore who managed to get tickets for a concert that sold out in hours. Most of his male friends, he said, have a lot of respect for the genre. 在南韓之外,要一個男人承認自己是K-pop粉絲可能是有點棘手的事,有些國家對此相當 看不起。18歲的菲律賓粉絲Angelo說:「我爸不支持我迷K-pop,他說這會讓我不夠男人 。」17歲的馬來西亞粉絲Jas則說:「在這裡,做一個男K-pop迷會有點被瞧不起,但這無 法阻擋我專注在終於可以見到鍾愛的女孩們上。」在新加坡等其他地方,當K-pop粉絲則 被認為是稀鬆平常,搶到數小時就完售門票的Kev說:「我所有的男性朋友都很羨慕與嫉 妒我可以去看BLACKPINK。」Kev也指出,他的男性朋友大多對K-pop極為推崇。 Sometimes, fans said, it can feel like everyone assumes who you are in the community. “I’ve definitely been called sis by random strangers more times than I can count,” said 31-year-old New Yorker Joe. In part, this is because a lot of the stan community for Blackpink tends to be using alternate accounts from their main ones: these ones have Blackpink or K-pop-specific names (@jennieschicken, @kickitatlisa, @kickdownmydoor), avatars that tend to be their favourite idols, so they don't bombard their friends and followers with an avalanche of pro-Jennie or Lisa posts. This can, therefore, create an illusion of a lot of women talking, regardless of who mans them. 有粉絲說,有時你能感覺到網路社群中的每個人,都在預設你的身份。31歲的紐約粉絲 Joe表示:「我被網路陌生人叫『姐妹』的次數多到數不清了。」某種程度上,這與許多 粉絲喜歡用類似@jennieschicken、@kickitatlisa、@kickdownmydoor這樣,含有與 BLACKPINK或K-pop相關字眼的分身帳號有關,如此一來,他們就可以不用顧慮親友等追蹤 者,盡情張貼支持Jennie或Lisa的文章,也因此製造出是大量女性在討論的假象。 Sometimes the assumption is sexual rather than gendered: “I remember about ten months ago or so a girl I met assumed I was bisexual due to the fact that I had a Blackpink lanyard,” said user @HearteuRosie. Other fans said they’d experienced the same: “It almost seems like you have to prove yourself as an actual man,” said 18-year-old American fan Anthony Rivera, who felt that both inside and outside the fandom people find it hard to think straight men can like the band. 有時這種推測更從性別延伸到性取向上。用戶@HearteuRosie說:「我記得大約是10個月 前,有個女孩看到我戴著BLACKPINK的證件套,就認為我是雙性戀。」其他粉絲也分享了 類似經驗,18歲的美國粉絲Anthony Rivera感覺,好像不管是不是BLACKPINK粉絲,都很 意外直男也會喜歡BLACKPINK:「幾乎像是你必須證明自己真的是個男人。」 But at concerts, everybody said, the differences of the outside world fall away. People who had attended concerts everywhere from Manila to Atlanta said that they were surprised by the amount of men, with most saying they felt like it was a 50/50 split. Even those who felt like female attendees were the majority said they didn’t feel weird about it. After all, you’re all here for one thing: to witness the girls in action and to give them the most possible support. 不過到了演唱會上,每個人都說外頭世界的差異已不復存。從馬尼拉到亞特蘭大,每個去 過BLACKPINK演唱會的人,都對男性觀眾的人數感到驚訝。多數人認為男女比例是五五開 而那些認為女性仍居多的人,也不覺得現場有不少男性會有什麼好奇怪的。畢竟,大家都 是為了同一件事到這裡:欣賞女孩們表演,並給予她們最大的支持。 Niki and Sammy Albon are 27-year-old presenters who have been talking about K-pop for nearly four years between their BBC Radio 1 podcast and their YouTube videos. They've been the first to debut BTS and Blackpink songs on national UK radio and have been to their fair share of K-pop concerts. They said they are always staggered by the diversity of the crowds. 27歲的男雙胞胎Niki與Sammy Albon已在BBC Radio 1的podcast,以及自營的YouTube頻道 上談論K-pop有4年之久,他們是率先在英國全國電台上播放BTS與BLACKPINK歌曲的人,也 參加過不少K-pop演唱會。兩人表示,他們總是吃驚於現場觀眾的多樣性。 "We were at a Zico show in Shepherd's Bush when a lady in her late fifties turned to me and asked if I was attending BTS at the O2 (this was prior to their first shows in London)," they told me. "When I said I was, she informed me she was dragging her daughter along because she herself was a massive K-pop fan.” 他們告訴我:「有一次我們在牧羊人叢林觀賞Zico的演出,有位看起來50、60歲的女士 過身來問我,會不會去看BTS在O2的演唱會(這件事發生在BTS於倫敦的首秀前)。當我給 予她肯定的答覆後,她告訴我她會帶女兒一起去,因為她自己就是個超級K-pop迷。」 There’s also a lot of different ways to encounter male fans: fan pages, forums, Discords and group chats all exist for male fans of the band. “Its not [a groupchat] where we sexualise or objectify the girls,” explained 18-year-old Filipino fan @bilandreortega. “Believe it or not, most of us talk about how Blackpink's literally changed our lives and perspectives when it comes to women.” 18歲的菲律賓粉絲@bilandreortega說,還有很多不同方法可以接觸男粉:粉絲專頁、論 壇、Discord、群組聊天等,都存在著BLACKPINK的男性支持者。「我們並不是在群聊中性 別化或物化團員們,信不信由你,我們討論的大多數話題,都是BLACKPINK是如何真正地 改變我們的生活,以及看待女性的觀點。」 This highly diverse fanbase, however, might be an anomaly among K-pop communities: people suggested other bands, such as EXO, have far smaller male fanbases, especially abroad. One part of this, some argued, might be because Blackpink has such a large audience of gay fans, which in turn might be because they have done more than many of their contemporaries to show support for the LGBTQ community both home and abroad. 然而這個呈現高度多樣性的粉絲群,在K-pop之中可能是個異數:有人認為有些團,例如 EXO,男粉基數可能小了許多,特別是在海外。有些人認為,這有部分是因為BLACKPINK有 大量的同志粉絲,也就是說,可能是因為在表達對國內外LGBTQ族群的支持上,她們做得 比同期者更多。 “The topic of being gay/lesbian/etc is not really brought up within idols or South Korea. So being an LGBT fan it can often bring up worries if your idol would even accept you as a person,” explained Russ, a 16-year-old British Canadian. But many gay fans mentioned how band members use the rainbow flag on stage in performances and that member Ros? had spoken to a lesbian fan about her girlfriend. Moments like this, said Russ, weren’t forgotten by fans. 16歲的英裔加拿大粉絲Russ解釋:「有關同性戀的話題並不會在南韓偶像圈內被提起。 因此,做為一個LGBT粉絲,你時常會對你的偶像甚至是否能接受你這個人而感到焦慮。」 但很多男同粉絲提到了BLACKPINK成員在舞台上拿起彩虹旗、Ros暺P一名女同粉絲談論後 者的女朋友問題等事件。Russ說,這些是粉絲們永遠銘記在心的片段。 https://i.imgur.com/lr493b4.jpg
(譯註:菲律賓場,有人丟一面彩虹旗上去,Ros擏漭汙艉F起來。) To some, the biggest dissonance between male and female Blinks comes down to the energy they bring to gigs: “Female fans will scream and cheer their lungs out even before the show when they usually play music videos,” explained 24-year-old American fan Malcom Morales. Many men, he said, are often less vocal at the show. “Ideas of masculinity attribute to why some male-identifying fans feel they cannot fully express their excitement,” he added. 有些人認為,男、女BLINKs之間最大的不同是他們帶到表演現場的能量。24歲的美國粉絲 Malcom Morales說:「女粉往往在表演正式開始前,還只是播MV的時候,就歡呼尖叫得像 快把肺給喊出來。」許多男性在演出現場的聲量則則往往較小。他補充說:「諸如男子氣 概等觀念,是導致部分男性認同的粉絲覺得,不能完全表達出興奮的原因。」 But others who had attended concerts bucked this trend. Some male fans made great friends at gigs, some even go to gigs dressed as male counterparts to their favourite band costumes. “A younger female fan was in the seat next to me and probably thought it was hilarious to see a full-grown man and male friend waving the light sticks and screaming till their lungs give out,” said William Mendoza, a 25-year-old Asian-American fan who saw the band in LA. “I guess it did feel odd a little bit, but in a funny way.” 但也有其他曾去過演唱會現場的人反對這種說法,有些男粉在演場會現場結成好友,有些 甚至針對自己最喜歡的團員舞台服,打扮成像對方的男伴一樣。參加洛杉磯演唱會的25歲 亞裔美國粉絲William Mendoza說:「坐在我旁邊的那個年輕女生大概覺得,這個已經完 全長熟的男子與同行的一夥男粉,一邊用力揮舞粉錘,一邊瘋狂嘶吼直到燒聲的模樣很滑 稽。我猜這可能是有點奇怪啦,但是是往有趣的那方面。」 Mendoza said that most people probably think male Blackpink fans are just there to talk about how attractive they are. “Which I mean, yeah, it is the truth! But beyond that, I believe everyone in Blackpink is crazy talented and make music that lifts people up and empowers them.” Mendoza說,很多人可能以為,BLAKCPINK的男粉只會談論團員們的外在有多吸引人, 「我的意思是,沒錯,那也是事實,但除此之外,我相信每個BLACKPINK的團員都極具天 賦,並帶來能鼓舞人們、給予力量的音樂。」 For me, fans all had the same advice: it might feel weird to start with, they said, but pretty soon the fact that I’ll be an older attendee, and a male attendee, will stop feeling weird once the band get going. What excites me most is the chance to go to a concert where, it seems, everyone in attendance is really focused on seeing an act and seeing them succeed. The chance to see an audience who aren’t having loud, drunken conversations about their weekend plans, who want to marinade in the moment rather than act like its an inconvenience, sounds like a welcome change to most of the London gigs I’ve been to in the past few years. 所有的粉絲都對我個人提出一個相同建議:做為年長的男性觀眾,剛開始可能會感到有些 彆扭,但只要演出一開始,很快就不會再感到怪異。對我來說最興奮的是,有機會參與一 場似乎每一位入場者是真的專注在表演上,專注於見證演出者成功的演唱會。有機會不遇 上一群連做出一點造成別人不便的反應都不願,只想軟爛在那裡的酒醉觀眾,高聲討論著 各自的週末計畫。與過去幾年來我參與過的大部分倫敦演唱會相比,這聽起來像是個不錯 的改變。 https://i.imgur.com/icwjyQj.jpg
(原文配圖) -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 1.169.34.129 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/BLACKPINK/M.1558521199.A.622.html
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LesBleus: 都是粉絲沒錯,只是好奇是否像部分外國1.169.34.129 05/22 18:51
LesBleus: 一樣有特別的刻板印象?1.169.34.129 05/22 18:52
ecAlice: 直接把ptt使用者當男性蠻奇怪的 可能是因36.226.60.211 05/22 18:53
ecAlice: 為常混韓星板的關係 我不會這樣欸36.226.60.211 05/22 18:53
cao666: 像中國飯圈得女粉的天下的觀念就很奇怪@~@123.240.184.199 05/22 18:53
LesBleus: 也不是說真的當成男性啦,但是對話往來 1.169.34.129 05/22 18:54
cao666: *得123.240.184.199 05/22 18:54
LesBleus: 時通常使用的是與男性溝通的口吻,像稱 1.169.34.129 05/22 18:55
LesBleus: 乎別人XXX大、OOO大那樣,好像一般不會 1.169.34.129 05/22 18:55
LesBleus: 叫女生某某大? 1.169.34.129 05/22 18:56
ssss06: 沒吧,我叫別人XX大也不知道他的性別,不 49.217.16.59 05/22 18:58
ssss06: 就只是尊重的稱呼嗎 49.217.16.59 05/22 18:58
bye980625: 愛上作弊划水無禮女團比較怪1.170.159.231 05/22 18:58
wumayzi: xx大的大是無性別的尊稱吧114.26.235.168 05/22 18:59
wumayzi: 先預設你是活人(?)的基礎下XDD114.26.235.168 05/22 18:59
ssss06: 是說男生喜歡女團喜歡不是很正常嗎?我身 49.217.16.59 05/22 18:59
ssss06: 邊的男性朋友蠻多都會關注女團,但對男團 49.217.16.59 05/22 18:59
ssss06: 一點興趣都沒有,反而是女生男女團都看, 49.217.16.59 05/22 18:59
ssss06: 原來國外覺得這樣很怪喔? 49.217.16.59 05/22 18:59
m10521306: 愛上評價那麼差的圖 價值觀堪憂180.217.242.158 05/22 18:59
Miseryz: 大多數女團在南韓的粉絲,是以男性居多111.251.234.145 05/22 19:01
YuTacooooo: 約十年前我覺得韓星板多數是女生,現 101.14.130.79 05/22 19:01
YuTacooooo: 在可能一半一半吧101.14.130.79 05/22 19:01
Miseryz: 這是錯的,只有某些團才是以男粉居多111.251.234.145 05/22 19:02
Grisa6795: 我是不會有刻板印象拉 反而覺得有男粉59.115.200.163 05/22 19:02
Grisa6795: 很稀奇 但現在也不怎麼稀奇了畢竟男女59.115.200.163 05/22 19:02
Grisa6795: 老少通吃 媽媽爸爸阿公阿嬤類我比較稀 59.115.200.163 05/22 19:02
Grisa6795: 奇XD很酷 我的話歡迎各種粉絲 因為追星59.115.200.163 05/22 19:02
Grisa6795: 認識不一樣的人也很酷 59.115.200.163 05/22 19:02
LesBleus: 所以才覺得驚訝,看輕迷K-pop還能感覺到 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:02
Miseryz: 多數女團還是以女粉為主111.251.234.145 05/22 19:02
LesBleus: 脈絡,認為迷女團的是同志機率高就真的 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:02
w82814704: 愛上kpop女團不怪 愛上作弊團才怪223.136.23.76 05/22 19:03
g9k1895417: 認真覺得愛上BP才是有問題的~先不說作180.217.233.69 05/22 19:03
LesBleus: 摸不著頭緒。(不過我看很多拍reaction 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:03
g9k1895417: 弊和大字報~人品那麼差的團還喜歡真180.217.233.69 05/22 19:03
g9k1895417: 的呵呵(被大字報騙的就算了,另外要180.217.233.69 05/22 19:03
g9k1895417: 發洗白文就找個沒別團的文,這種的在180.217.233.69 05/22 19:03
g9k1895417: 專版取暖就好180.217.233.69 05/22 19:03
LesBleus: 的YouTuber還真的有不少同志)1.169.34.129 05/22 19:03
Miseryz: 日本才是女團粉絲以男粉為主111.251.234.145 05/22 19:03
Miseryz: 是否以男粉為主聽應援聲就知道111.251.234.145 05/22 19:05
alin147: 身為一個男生,我可是男女團都看還看到去 101.8.130.157 05/22 19:05
alin147: 打工度假 101.8.130.157 05/22 19:05
Miseryz: 裡面一些話都滿主觀的,也沒有引用數據,比111.251.234.145 05/22 19:08
newmp4: 發去專版做夢好嗎 1.165.102.167 05/22 19:08
Miseryz: 較像在同溫層的"感覺"文章111.251.234.145 05/22 19:08
newmp4: 還是你專版垃圾bp粉都在韓星版阿 1.165.102.167 05/22 19:09
LesBleus: 基本上就是YouTube上那種街訪影片的文字 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:10
newmp4: 你就去專版單機不就好邊發文邊解釋 1.165.102.167 05/22 19:10
ecAlice: 我以為稱呼別人XXX大是ptt的禮節欸 只看 36.226.60.211 05/22 19:10
ecAlice: 文字要分辨男女蠻難的吧 是說整篇文章看36.226.60.211 05/22 19:10
ecAlice: 完覺得國外看輕男性kpop迷這件事不太好理 36.226.60.211 05/22 19:10
ecAlice: 解欸 這就只是喜歡而已啊36.226.60.211 05/22 19:10
LesBleus: 版呀 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:10
newmp4: 阿所以呢,要大家喜歡垃圾bp喔 1.165.102.167 05/22 19:11
Mugen0413: 韓國人本身對自己國內男人迷女團也沒很36.227.101.52 05/22 19:12
Mugen0413: 諒解 外國人理解錯誤 36.227.101.52 05/22 19:12
shoes40: 原來歐美覺得男飯女團比較怪XD 123.192.94.8 05/22 19:13
shoes40: 平常直覺會以為女團難飯多,男團女飯多。 123.192.94.8 05/22 19:14
Miseryz: 就是因為韓國人對迷女團的沒很諒解,所以111.251.234.145 05/22 19:16
stara1125: 原來他喜歡韓國作弊的風氣...49.216.27.12 05/22 19:16
Mugen0413: 去簽售會&生放排隊一看就知部分分曉 36.227.101.52 05/22 19:18
LesBleus: 原來南韓男性也不是處在能自在飯(女)團 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:18
Miseryz: 一般只看不迷不飯,多數女團還是女飯為主111.251.234.145 05/22 19:18
LesBleus: 的社會氛圍呀 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:18
Mugen0413: 女團簽售大部分還是勇敢的男飯...... 36.227.101.52 05/22 19:19
unknown0000: 專欄文章本來就經常只是觀點或體驗 111.71.73.136 05/22 19:19
unknown0000: 哪有對數據跟佐證的嚴厲要求,特別主 111.71.73.136 05/22 19:19
unknown0000: 題給推 111.71.73.136 05/22 19:19
Miseryz: 韓國男生結婚交女友經濟壓力大很難飯女團111.251.234.145 05/22 19:19
a71y242: 除了小孩子 男人看女人的角度本來就很難27.242.158.18 05/22 19:19
a71y242: 飯27.242.158.18 05/22 19:19
Mugen0413: 但音源這部分真的女團女飯抬頭36.227.101.52 05/22 19:20
Miseryz: 不是喔!簽售大部分還是女飯,除了某些女團111.251.234.145 05/22 19:21
Miseryz: 以外,那麼多女團大部分還是以女粉為主111.251.234.145 05/22 19:22
Mugen0413: 要大數去看 簽售大部分還是男飯 非絕大36.227.101.52 05/22 19:23
Miseryz: 所以在銷量上比較難贏過男團111.251.234.145 05/22 19:23
Miseryz: 要看你是看哪家啊!111.251.234.145 05/22 19:23
kevinaa: 直男飯 如果是爸爸哥哥飯大概是最難得最27.242.158.18 05/22 19:24
kevinaa: 珍貴 27.242.158.18 05/22 19:24
Miseryz: 基本上成績比較好的那幾團男飯會比較多111.251.234.145 05/22 19:24
btpeiobsub: 純噓BP 愛上這種作弊不敬業沒禮貌的220.133.171.127 05/22 19:24
btpeiobsub: 團體真的慘220.133.171.127 05/22 19:24
kevinaa: 多數一些男友飯 男粉多的戀愛都不能27.242.158.18 05/22 19:25
hipmyhop: 蠻有趣的 西方聽眾多樣性高61.222.134.105 05/22 19:26
kevinaa: 甲甲喜歡女星帶崇拜心裡 跟直男喜歡天王 27.242.158.18 05/22 19:26
kevinaa: 一樣 一般比較長久 27.242.158.18 05/22 19:26
Mugen0413: 因為有很多外國男飯在簽售會上稱雄 XDD 36.227.101.52 05/22 19:26
LesBleus: 可能年紀還沒到,覺得要純以哥哥的角度 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:26
LesBleus: 去看待都不容易了,遑論爸爸!XD 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:27
tsubasau4x: Bp唱跳都不行 114.25.36.26 05/22 19:30
beejoe: 起始點應該是男生飯偶像在社會上是不是被 140.110.200.41 05/22 19:31
beejoe: 輕視,而不是飯kpop被輕視140.110.200.41 05/22 19:31
beejoe: 我覺得是前者,社會壓力讓男生本來就不容140.110.200.41 05/22 19:32
beejoe: 易外顯140.110.200.41 05/22 19:32
shumei: 在喜歡的偶像面前大家都是一樣的啊,什麼123.194.196.242 05/22 19:34
shumei: 性別什麼年紀都不重要啦!123.194.196.242 05/22 19:34
OnlyJun17: 英國人就歐洲版日本人,最愛上演內心小180.218.176.88 05/22 19:34
arx3721: 大搖大擺的跟全公司人說我去看女團演唱會 42.75.78.77 05/22 19:35
arx3721: 的我表示..... 42.75.78.77 05/22 19:35
OnlyJun17: 劇場,西方那麼開化自由,又有嬉皮時代180.218.176.88 05/22 19:35
LesBleus: 樓上人生勝利組,已經無視社會壓力啦XD 1.169.34.129 05/22 19:35
OnlyJun17: 沉迷樂團根本很平常 180.218.176.88 05/22 19:36
chooo: 明知作弊還愛的話真的怪 115.82.140.136 05/22 19:37
beejoe: 但他們不知道,也不是很care 140.110.200.36 05/22 19:40
LesBleus: https://i.imgur.com/nYGDbAq.jpg114.137.192.177 05/22 19:41
qazxswptt: 愛上天團的電器人比較怪 39.111.185.5 05/22 19:41
LesBleus: 原文作者David Levesley的推特下炸出好114.137.192.177 05/22 19:42
LesBleus: 多熟齡粉114.137.192.177 05/22 19:42
Miseryz: 某團粉假帳號多,喜歡角色扮演不是新聞111.251.234.145 05/22 19:42
Hartford: ... 111.82.21.26 05/22 19:43
Miseryz: 不要利用LGBTQ洗白好嗎?111.251.234.145 05/22 19:44
Bruhl96: 我感覺是對這興趣「不夠陽剛」的歧視吧36.232.53.236 05/22 19:44
Bruhl96: ,跟kpop關係不大,僵化的直男想像就只 36.232.53.236 05/22 19:44
Bruhl96: 是住海邊而已 36.232.53.236 05/22 19:44
woaichirouro: 愛上BP才怪 39.12.162.77 05/22 19:50
jamtree: 比較看不起迷bp的人><36.231.220.191 05/22 19:52
Trocksmile: 喜歡女團不怪,喜歡bp心理變態 27.247.197.247 05/22 19:53
tsubasau4x: Bp blink 114.25.36.26 05/22 19:55
tingover: 樂團和偶像團體形象差很多欸 覺得就次223.137.202.176 05/22 20:02
tingover: 文化一般比較難開口啦可以理解223.137.202.176 05/22 20:02
Blackshirt: 愛上的是已有明確作弊事實的團體才奇115.43.63.43 05/22 20:03
Blackshirt: 怪 115.43.63.43 05/22 20:03
tracyming: 去看少時演唱會時我男友跟其他男飯都很 115.82.2.50 05/22 20:05
tracyming: 冷靜www 115.82.2.50 05/22 20:05
Miseryz: 少時男飯算滿多的吧?111.251.234.145 05/22 20:10
xinyuxiao: 喜歡女團是直男的機率才大吧114.136.243.202 05/22 20:11
hermes20372: 推223.138.227.242 05/22 20:11
g9k1895417: 有人能解釋闢謠大師這篇要闢謠什麼嗎?1.175.141.57 05/22 20:12
qaz31415: 愛上kpop的不怪 愛上bp的才怪 1.161.69.190 05/22 20:13
Miseryz: 闢謠大師是要說BP在歐美很受LGBTQ歡迎?111.251.234.145 05/22 20:15
garyqbs: 愛上kpop不怪+1 愛上作弊套餐團才怪 36.225.131.124 05/22 20:15
mayday1206: 我以為歐美那邊是不分性別的歧視kpop27.246.43.169 05/22 20:16
mayday1206: 迷,但沒有想過男粉會特別被針對 27.246.43.169 05/22 20:16
mayday1206: 臺灣的話,好像男粉女粉都沒有差別(27.246.43.169 05/22 20:17
mayday1206: ?27.246.43.169 05/22 20:17
chnet3214: 男生愛男團比較少吧 大部分都愛女團(?59.115.207.108 05/22 20:18
Miseryz: 很多國家對女團男粉都會比較針對,應該和111.251.234.145 05/22 20:18
Miseryz: kpop比較沒關係,即使是日本也是111.251.234.145 05/22 20:19
Miseryz: 台灣比較針對的是追星而不是迷偶像111.251.234.145 05/22 20:20
mikiworldpea: 我的gay朋友超愛bp和防彈 49.217.80.41 05/22 20:22
qaz31415: 這篇重點是什麼 怎麼說女團男粉多 又說b 1.161.69.190 05/22 20:23
qaz31415: p男粉多很特別 可是印象中blink很討厭男 1.161.69.190 05/22 20:23
qaz31415: 粉 造謠bp男粉佔一半是想害bp得不到天下1.161.69.190 05/22 20:23
qaz31415: 嗎 1.161.69.190 05/22 20:23
bluenova: 推文太好笑XDDDD223.138.66.132 05/22 20:27
iundertaker: 我以為男生迷男團才會被質疑性向耶111.82.227.34 05/22 20:31
nexus0116: 口區 111.82.237.174 05/22 20:31
dogjoker: BB以前也是男飯很多 115.82.181.75 05/22 20:33
Grisa6795: 同意mayday大 國外蠻歧視迷Kpop的 不只 59.115.200.163 05/22 20:33
Grisa6795: 男粉59.115.200.163 05/22 20:33
rEdRaIn007: 大概就像有些人離不開渣男渣女一樣182.235.190.233 05/22 20:35
rEdRaIn007: 渣團粉心裡很清楚但就是離不開渣團182.235.190.233 05/22 20:35
qaz31415: 類比錯誤 粉的渣度並不輸團好嗎 1.161.69.190 05/22 20:37
cching1021: 某某大純粹是網路尊稱用語啊...跟性118.169.244.44 05/22 20:40
cching1021: 別哪有關係 韓星版應該也是女性多的118.169.244.44 05/22 20:40
cching1021: 板118.169.244.44 05/22 20:40
qazxswptt: 利用憐惜女團男粉的慈悲心 偷偷洗地 39.111.185.5 05/22 20:41
Petrichoreo: ...第一次看到馬賽克是這樣馬的 42.74.93.212 05/22 20:41
pf775: 男性大多數都討厭韓國吧 223.137.56.63 05/22 20:41
qazxswptt: 起源花樣越來越豐富了 39.111.185.5 05/22 20:41
brianhxy: 推文好亂哦 推Blackpink~~~ 59.124.201.21 05/22 20:42
cching1021: Kpop離開韓國就是女性聽眾為主 就算118.169.244.44 05/22 20:43
cching1021: 是女團也是如此 男飯本來就少 之中也118.169.244.44 05/22 20:43
cching1021: 確實相當比例是同志 因此引伸的刻板118.169.244.44 05/22 20:43
cching1021: 印象吧118.169.244.44 05/22 20:43
pf775: 一般白領也都以歐美日本音樂娛樂為主 223.137.56.63 05/22 20:44
BunnyBerry22: 某某大什麼時候變成只叫男生了==117.19.137.157 05/22 20:44
pf775: 韓國的客群幾乎都是女學生吧223.137.56.63 05/22 20:45
brianhxy: 比較好奇是怎麼確定韓星板上男女比例阿 59.124.201.21 05/22 20:45
brianhxy: ?好像推文看到有人頗為確定欸 59.124.201.21 05/22 20:45
brianhxy: 而且仇韓的是台男不代表各國男生都仇韓 59.124.201.21 05/22 20:46
brianhxy: 吧?還是這個也有數據呢? 59.124.201.21 05/22 20:46
cching1021: 至於男性迷偶像少?是男性的類似性質 118.169.244.44 05/22 20:49
cching1021: 消費選擇太多了 運動啦啦隊、showgir 118.169.244.44 05/22 20:49
cching1021: l、舞團、寫真女星等等 而女性除了偶118.169.244.44 05/22 20:49
cching1021: 像反而幾乎就沒有了118.169.244.44 05/22 20:49
bronnie: 噓某樓,那喜歡Twice的男同志粉絲是正常101.10.102.111 05/22 20:54
bronnie: 還是不正常?101.10.102.111 05/22 20:54
bronnie: 最討厭聽到直男說自己性向正常,就是下意101.10.102.111 05/22 20:56
bronnie: 識地覺得非異性戀者都是不正常啊101.10.102.111 05/22 20:56
ssss06: 請仇韓大師775幫邏輯大師解惑一下 49.217.16.59 05/22 20:56
qaz31415: 喜歡bp的任何生命體都不正常 1.161.69.190 05/22 20:58
krachchiu: 推推 1.162.55.173 05/22 21:05
krachchiu: ROSE超暖心 1.162.55.173 05/22 21:05
qazxswptt: 這篇不好洗的問題在於 人家會誤會這位 39.111.185.5 05/22 21:06
qazxswptt: 女團男粉苦主是因為喜歡上了天團才被 39.111.185.5 05/22 21:06
qazxswptt: 排擠的 用心翻譯走出溫暖區 反而可能 39.111.185.5 05/22 21:07
qazxswptt: 得到反效果 39.111.185.5 05/22 21:07
pf775: 韓國的國際形象太爛 223.137.56.63 05/22 21:15
pf775: 稍微了解的人都不會喜歡韓國事務223.137.56.63 05/22 21:15
newmp4: 垃圾BP粉就滾回專版拉1.165.102.167 05/22 21:17
newmp4: 垃圾團糞團 1.165.102.167 05/22 21:17
krachchiu: 推 1.162.55.173 05/22 21:41
kyoku: 我覺得在台灣也有這種現象,接受度並沒想的36.229.219.45 05/22 21:43
kyoku: 高,其實是年紀,男+大叔年紀,別說是社會 36.229.219.45 05/22 21:44
kyoku: 畢竟飯的年紀還是以年輕人為主 大叔級粉絲 36.229.219.45 05/22 21:45
kyoku: 很多年輕粉絲看了也覺得很尷尬 36.229.219.45 05/22 21:46
zoe8317148: 覺得不需要對自己的喜好感到奇怪,能27.242.107.241 05/22 21:48
zoe8317148: 被認同和找到同好很好,沒有也沒關係27.242.107.241 05/22 21:48
zoe8317148: ,喜好本來就是自己的事。27.242.107.241 05/22 21:48
LionHeart819: Gay once路過XD114.137.202.151 05/22 22:06
iamseanx: 我gay友特別喜歡bp跟00118.167.12.139 05/22 22:06
Green1216: 有問題的是喜歡BP 價值觀嚴重扭曲124.218.83.221 05/22 22:07
NC0516: 所以不是得女飯得天下,是因為男性追星會101.136.77.63 05/22 22:12
NC0516: 被歧視,歐美笑gay亞洲笑肥宅。 101.136.77.63 05/22 22:12
Ashen19: 同溫層的文章,但還是謝謝分享 27.52.94.37 05/22 22:18
erin6677: 我覺得男粉很正常啊 看到這篇文章有點118.166.141.28 05/22 22:24
erin6677: 驚訝118.166.141.28 05/22 22:24
cj930212: 愛上作弊垃圾噁團才是怪118.171.33.4 05/22 22:49
cj930212: 這人大概不知道這團多垃圾 不過也不一定118.171.33.4 05/22 22:54
cj930212: 畢竟BLIND多的是 板上就有幾個 118.171.33.4 05/22 22:54
MinionFans: 愛上評價差的團..?外國人看的是你的39.10.135.132 05/22 23:22
MinionFans: 綜合實力噢~評價差大概是亞洲某些像39.10.135.132 05/22 23:22
MinionFans: 台灣這種“地區”才會有的問題吧 39.10.135.132 05/22 23:22
dogjoker: 樓上想表達什麼49.217.240.214 05/22 23:30
dogjoker: 台灣這種地區怎麼了?49.217.240.214 05/22 23:30
hsuan1009: 台灣地區??? 39.10.140.103 05/22 23:32
mayday1206: 特別標明地區?希望是我太敏感27.246.43.169 05/22 23:32
xchen84: 太長了吧 1.175.63.226 05/22 23:33
chaechae: 講的好像韓國沒在質疑一樣114.136.183.211 05/22 23:36
mayday1206: 可以理解愛團被批很不爽,但拋下一句 27.246.43.169 05/22 23:36
mayday1206: 地區就拍拍屁股走人,什麼意思? 27.246.43.169 05/22 23:36
g9k1895417: blink森氣氣XD~對對~PTT都是反指標XDD 1.175.141.57 05/22 23:36
dogjoker: Minion你這話太多槽點了呢49.217.240.214 05/22 23:36
g9k1895417: BP唱歌實力最好跳舞最認真對前輩最有 1.175.141.57 05/22 23:37
chaechae: 會說地區的就一種人啊114.136.183.211 05/22 23:37
g9k1895417: 禮貌了XDD 1.175.141.57 05/22 23:37
dogjoker: 評價你以為只有實力喔 作弊怎麼不放進去49.217.240.214 05/22 23:37
cj930212: 划水跟作弊實力確實一等一 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:37
dogjoker: 然後什麼地區?要不要說清楚點49.217.240.214 05/22 23:38
g9k1895417: 宇宙天團實力不容質疑呢~XD1.175.141.57 05/22 23:38
g9k1895417: 不想聽實話就滾回同溫層取暖吧XD 影片1.175.141.57 05/22 23:39
g9k1895417: 佐證都一大堆了XDD 1.175.141.57 05/22 23:39
cj930212: 外國人看哦 日本也外國 難怪日輸少的可 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:41
cj930212: 憐 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:41
ssss06: 原來是跟00同鄉的? 49.217.16.59 05/22 23:41
tom2564026: ?? https://i.imgur.com/D84OnYi.gif 1.165.131.215 05/22 23:41
husky1989: 原來是支那來的朋友噢 那會支持作弊團 114.32.7.207 05/22 23:41
clwwimmida: 地區顆顆 某M是對岸天團粉吧www 101.12.1.122 05/22 23:41
husky1989: 也真是不意外了^^ 114.32.7.207 05/22 23:41
dogjoker: 顆顆 偷渡台灣地區 噓爆49.217.240.214 05/22 23:45
newmp4: 外國人不是看實力是看划力,越划越有十粒 111.82.213.20 05/22 23:45
newmp4: 垃圾糞團bp111.82.213.20 05/22 23:46
cj930212: BLINK又開IN囉 這次換阿信了 真衰 像沾 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:47
cj930212: 到屎一樣 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:47
PROMAC: 吹牛造假的實力宇宙第一59.115.198.244 05/22 23:48
mayday1206: 這次換阿信?什麼意思啊?27.246.43.169 05/22 23:53
raxt577: https://i.imgur.com/Walp3Iv.jpg 某M不 110.28.104.142 05/22 23:58
raxt577: 擔心等等爬的VPN掛點? 110.28.104.142 05/22 23:58
cj930212: https://i.imgur.com/pfQPZEQ.jpg 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:58
cj930212: 去看阿信IG最新文就知道了 118.171.33.4 05/22 23:59
BunnyBerry22: 這團的粉絲真的不用再幫自己主子招 101.14.196.3 05/23 00:16
BunnyBerry22: 黑了啦 真以為只有台灣在質疑勒101.14.196.3 05/23 00:16
vjr964040: 外國人看實力XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD114.37.29.218 05/23 00:27
iamseanx: 是罵的洗版才算in吧118.167.12.139 05/23 00:31
NC0516: 台灣"地區“?又來一個中國人。101.136.77.63 05/23 00:33
NC0516: 不對,那位中國朋友不是blink麻?101.136.77.63 05/23 00:33
NC0516: 每次les大大開個討論文順便偷渡一下BP,底101.136.77.63 05/23 00:36
NC0516: 下都會有豬隊友幫忙把文弄到噓XD 101.136.77.63 05/23 00:36
NC0516: 微博影響力太大了,通常那種沒帶腦子沒有101.136.77.63 05/23 00:44
NC0516: 台灣本土意識的人太常逛,都會被洗腦,台101.136.77.63 05/23 00:44
NC0516: 灣地區?歐美很紅很有實力?XD101.136.77.63 05/23 00:44
seeseelee: 內文只說愛BP然後帶BTS、EXO、西洋歌手36.229.216.160 05/23 00:54
seeseelee: 也沒提到其他女團...36.229.216.160 05/23 00:55
qazxswptt: 在樂園洗地就是要找這種in完其他人還是111.249.98.205 05/23 00:56
qazxswptt: 只愛天團的純種文111.249.98.205 05/23 00:56
seeseelee: 這種標題和內文不符,不噓對不起自己36.229.216.160 05/23 01:04
seeseelee: 在韓星版用14頁吹捧作弊團就是要噓36.229.216.160 05/23 01:07
seeseelee: 原作者對性別和音樂的偏見也讓人不舒服36.229.216.160 05/23 01:09
seeseelee: 一直要營造出滿滿高級感也讓人覺得噁心36.229.216.160 05/23 01:11
viva4ever: 歐美才有的煩惱,亞洲k-pop之前還有J-p 36.225.33.6 05/23 01:14
viva4ever: op很難想像有人會因為喜歡女偶像被歧 36.225.33.6 05/23 01:14
viva4ever: 視。 36.225.33.6 05/23 01:14
seeseelee: 內文說BP挺同做得比同期多真的很問號36.229.216.160 05/23 01:21
seeseelee: 用西洋女團和頂級韓男團來襯托BP不愧是36.229.216.160 05/23 01:31
seeseelee: 宇宙團粉絲的習慣啊...36.229.216.160 05/23 01:32
seeseelee: 這種純捧BP的自慰文貼在專板就夠了36.229.216.160 05/23 01:40
seeseelee: 在BP專版高潮就好了請不要拿來這裡洗地36.229.216.160 05/23 01:43
seeseelee: 知道BP各種作假還是愛,腦袋三觀都奇怪36.229.216.160 05/23 01:52
Hi, Max!
XRay3682: 這麼說也對,爸爸大撒幣也算是實力 101.12.6.95 05/23 03:05
※ 編輯: LesBleus (114.137.192.177), 05/23/2019 04:36:30
Green1216: BP就是垃圾 YG整間從上到下都是垃圾 223.139.21.36 05/23 06:29
newmp4: 這垃圾團的粉絲沒時間就不要一直IN好嗎 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:04
newmp4: 幾天沒看發一些垃圾話都是你們垃圾BP粉 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:05
newmp4: https://imgur.com/ZtEOVLp 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:05
newmp4: https://imgur.com/XCQ52Ok 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:05
newmp4: 垃圾BP糞團噁心團 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:06
newmp4: 一直洗大便符號又是你們家 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:08
newmp4: https://imgur.com/ScEJZ4k 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:08
newmp4: https://imgur.com/JydSmvd 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:09
newmp4: 垃圾團 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:09
newmp4: https://imgur.com/kwMF0UQ 36.232.113.67 05/23 07:16
chith: 撇開BP的部分,我覺得男生喜歡女團是非常223.140.142.166 05/23 09:24
chith: 正常的事223.140.142.166 05/23 09:24
chith: 這種文章十足體現了有時候是你在歧視你自223.140.142.166 05/23 09:25
chith: 己這個事實,沒人講什麼自己拉椅子坐還寫223.140.142.166 05/23 09:25
chith: 長長一篇廢文223.140.142.166 05/23 09:25
brianhxy: 樓樓上厲害了 明明他的自介是Amry和Bli 59.124.157.21 05/23 09:40
brianhxy: nk結果硬要忽略成垃圾bp粉 59.124.157.21 05/23 09:40
LesBleus: 給David Levesley一點鼓勵嘛,雖然我不 42.72.3.213 05/23 09:41
LesBleus: 知道他究竟幾歲,但目測應該30以上,大 42.72.3.213 05/23 09:41
LesBleus: 叔飯應該不容易吧? 42.72.3.213 05/23 09:41
Blackshirt: 雙擔本質blink這件事我以為大家都知 223.140.114.19 05/23 13:59
Blackshirt: 道了 223.140.114.19 05/23 13:59
mayday1206: 他不只雙擔吧,看他自介的最後一行 27.246.43.169 05/23 14:29
tsubasau4x: Bp blink 220.141.8.131 05/23 14:44
shumei: 同時喜歡多團不是很平常嗎!但應該也有分123.194.196.242 05/23 23:23
shumei: 能為這團花多少錢的差別,這跟性別可能123.194.196.242 05/23 23:23
shumei: 就比較有關了123.194.196.242 05/23 23:23
boggu: 純看標題..男生喜歡女團不是很正常嗎 42.72.30.138 05/24 12:56