作者LABOYS (洛城浪子)
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標題[外電] Kobe vs Lebron 戰文
時間Thu May 20 16:22:16 2010
Kobe vs Lebron真戰文
Kobe and Lebron Debate, Can We Please End It Now?
by John Kim Correspondent Written on May 14, 2010
原文網址 :
http://0rz.tw/XNG3f
I think Lebron James is a phenomenal player. His mother Gloria deserves a
special page in the biology text book for mothering such a fine specimen
because James seems to add another page to Darwin's theory of evolution.
我認為Lebron James是個非凡的球員。
生物課本應該單獨拿一頁來講詹母Gloria,以作為孕育最高境界之例—
—James的出現為達爾文的進化論添上新的一頁。
The one thing that I truly could not withstand all this time is that how the
NBA, David Stern, Nike, and ESPN (and that means the great John Hollinger)
were so eager to place James as the best player of the sport so prematurely.
我很不能忍受的一件事就是整個NBA,David Stern,Nike,還有ESPN
(這意味著我們偉大的John Hollinger)都是那麼饑渴的,
貿然把James放上NBA第一人的神壇。
I even wrote an article stating that all the external doting of James will
actually hinder his growth. I don't think there is anything particularly
wrong with James himself. His work ethic, his competitive attitude is built
for playing the highest level.
我甚至寫了一篇文章,描述所有這些外加的溺愛最終會延緩他的成長。
但我不認為James本身有什麼錯,他的職業道德,
他的競爭態度都是為了達到巔峰而產生的。
Then again people are entitled to their own opinions so I can't try to take
the ice cream cone away from one kid and give to the other kid who deserves
it more.
當然人們有權利保留自己的意見,所以我也不能隨便把天下第一人的頭銜摘下再戴到另
外一個更配得上的人頭上。
(原文為“我不能搶走一個死小孩的冰淇淋塞給另外一個更值得擁有它的死小孩”)
Up until now, Lebron James showed plenty of great highlight reels and stats
to feed their fans to back him up as the best player. He now has won two
regular season MVP awards and from the looks of it, he may be able to win the
next five.
迄今為止,
Lebron James的各種高光和各式資料足以讓他的粉絲們得出他就是第一人的結論。
他已經連續拿了兩個MVP了,而且照這個趨勢來看,他極有可能再連著拿5個。
His fans have stubbornly argued that the ring less James easily crushes Kobe
Bryant's accolades solely on regular season accomplishments and future
potential alone. I've seen plenty of attempts at this website trying to place
James ahead of Jordan. Scary huh?
他的粉絲們一直固執的試圖論證還沒有戒指的James僅僅用季賽的成就和未來的潛力就能
壓倒Kobe Bryant。
網上關於想要把他擺在Jordan前面的文章我都已經看了n篇了。嚇到了嗎?
Well here comes the crunching reality that the James fans finally cannot
break away from. For 2 years in a row, James led his team through the regular
season with the best record of those seasons. For 2 years in a row, he won
the regular season MVP. For 2 years in a row, he entered the playoffs with
home court advantage all the way. For 2 years in a row, he was widely
believed as the best player in the best team with the best chances of winning
a title.
好吧,那麼我們讓James的粉絲看看鐵一般的事實吧。連續兩年,James帶著隊伍拿到季賽
最佳戰績;連續兩年,他拿到了MVP;連續兩年,他的隊伍在季後賽裡都有全部的主場優
勢;連續兩年,他都被認為是最有可能拿到總冠軍的最好的隊伍裡的最好的球員。
He has not only failed to lead the Cavaliers to a Championship both years,
but didn't even make out of the east twice already. 4-2 loss to the "aging,
one and done" Celtics. Oh yeah the Cavaliers also had home court advantage.
然後?他不僅連續兩年無法帶著騎士隊登頂,而且甚至無法衝出東區。
今年4-2被”老化中,一下即可搞定”的塞爾提克隊搞定。哦耶,他們還有著主場優勢呢。
So what' happening to Kobe Bryant? Um, the same damn thing that's he's proven
himself capable of last year. Winning as a leader of his team.
那Kobe Bryant都做了些什麼呢?
呃,他竟然也他媽的一樣在證明他有多麼可靠:作為隊伍的領袖贏得冠軍。
So So I'll point out some major factors that can blow this dumb excuse of a
comparison to rest.
我來說幾個要點,然後結束這場愚蠢的24 vs 23之爭吧。
1. Best players are complete players
1. 最好的球員是全面的球員
When you hear "complete" it doesn't mean triple doubles or just stacking up
high PER (seriously, Hollinger you could not be more myopic). Sure they are
awesome achievements but we just saw James making a triple double against the
Celtics in game 6 with 9 costly TOs. I'm talking about having a fully packed
arsenal.
"全面"這個說法呢,不只是意味著大三元或者很高的PER值。(我是認真的,Hollinger
的近視真不是一般的嚴重,)當然我承認拿到大三元是很屌的一件事,可是James只在與塞
爾提克隊的第六戰拿下了大三元,哦不,是準大四喜,他還有9個失誤呢。我講的全面是
指擁有各種進攻手段的全面。
When Kobe was suffering through injuries against the Thunders, he expanded
his facilitating role to properly utilize his team by attracting the
opposition towards him then opening his teammates for close range high
accuracy passes. James puts up high assists but he usually dishes the rock
through heavy traffic across long distance which the Celtics blanketed with
their defense.
Kobe第一輪對雷霆還飽受指傷困擾時,他成功地轉換了他的角色,
先吸引他的對位防守者,然後用各種精確的短傳幫隊友找到空檔。
James經常拿到很多助攻,但是他的助攻大多來源於快攻時或者半場大範圍轉移的長傳,
而塞爾提克隊很精準地封鎖了這點。
Bryant has been a career FT shooter. James has not been truly reliable with
his FT in crunch time.
Bryant在整個職業生涯都是一個關鍵罰球球員。
而James在關鍵時刻的罰球總是那麼令人不放心。
Bryant has Jordan's signature mid range jump shooter, albeit which he abuses
too much sometimes, but nonetheless extremely skilled at along with the fade
away shots. His 3 point shooting is also better than James.
Kobe有著Jordan式的中距離跳投,儘管他有時會腦子發熱出手太多,
但他的後仰跳投技巧絕對至少是近神級別的。他的三分同樣比James好。
Because of Bryant's offensive adaptability, he can make shots far away from
the paint in suffocating choke holds. This usually ends in either incredibly
difficult shots made or another ball hogging miss but it is still an
available option for Bryant. The Celtics tried and decently succeeded in
taking the paint away from James, significantly limiting his success range
for scoring. Many journalists say James should just attack the basket every
single time. In other words, he's usually better at one thing so just stick
with it and abandon that other thing he's not good at.
Bryant的進攻手段如此多樣,他便可以在令人窒息的防守陣型中遠離禁區跳投得分。塞爾
提克隊成功地使James遠離禁區,便成功限制了他得分的大部分方式。很多記者都說James
每次拿球都應該往禁區裡衝,換句話講,他通常在突破方面做得更好,那就一直做下去吧
,別管什麼跳投了,James才不擅長那個。
Well, Bryant's attack towards the paint is no slouch either. Sure people say
he can't dunk over people anymore but he polished his inside game in a
different more deadly direction. He sought out Hakeem Olajuwan and improved
his post-up play with only one day tutoring session. Bryant post-upped plenty
of times early this season and in the playoffs he has skillfully evaded the
inside defense for easy lay ups. James muscles his way to the basket which is
highly effective as well but he does not utilize his size and strength with
both his feet down on the floor trying to open up more steady passes to his
teammates.
Bryant的內線攻擊同樣也不差。
人們都碎碎念他已經不再能灌在人家頭上了,
但是他用另外一種更致命的方式打造出了他新一代的內線進攻。
他在暑假找了Hakeem Olajuwan學習,
並在短短一天的教學時間內把自己的背框技巧往上拉了一個等級。
Kobe在本季初期背框打得很多,
在季後賽裡他也用腳下功夫成功躲開了好多次防守輕鬆上籃得分。
James用肌肉開路的方法固然有效,但是他沒有完全利用好他的身形和力量優勢—
—背框時的雙腳著地能以更為穩健的傳球為隊友創造機會。
Here's the bottom line. Bryant has no real weaknesses. He may be slightly
less efficient at certain skills but he knows how to do everything. Which is
why he stayed effective with so many injuries this season and found ways to
help his team win. So he may be "off" sometimes when he's not scoring in bulk
but he is still making things happen. This poses a nightmare for coaches and
the defending opposing team because he will switch strategy to make up for
any short comings.
這就是底線了。Kobe沒有真正意義上的弱點。
他在某些地方可能有那麼一點點效率不足,但他能做好所有的事。
這便是他本季在傷病纏身的如此情境下仍然保持高效並帶領隊伍取勝的原因。
所以有時他把"得分模式"的開關處於關閉狀態,但是他仍可以通過其他管道贏得勝利。
這對於對方的教練和整個隊伍無疑就是一個夢魘,因為他會根據對手調節自己的策略來彌
補自身劣勢。
James rarely has an off night thanks to his freakish talent and highly
durable body. However if any of his major weapons does rust up for a night,
his options diminish rather quickly.
James靠著上乘天賦和強健體魄的確很少吃鱉,然而一旦他最主要的武器無法發揮,
他剩下的選擇事實上非常少。
2. Best Players Are Closers
2. 最好的球員是終結者
Since when did being the best closer and the best player become mutually
exclusive? This season he made what, 6-7 game winners? That shot over Wade is
one for the ages.
從什麼時候開始最好的終結者開始不和最好的球員掛鉤了?
本季Kobe投中了,嗯,不多,也就那麼6、7個致勝球吧。
在Wade頭上那個可是好久以前的事了。
Game winners usually comes down to jump shots than dunks or lay ups. Like I
said, James's jump shot is already unreliable during the first 46 minutes.
It's much harder to be accurate during the final 2 minutes. The whole world
already agrees that they'll give the ball to Kobe for the last shot.
致勝球通常都是跳投而不是上籃或者扣籃。
就像我說的那樣,James的跳投在前46分鐘就已經不是那麼可靠了,
在最後兩分鐘保持準度更是難上加難。
整個世界都已經同意會把球交給Kobe讓他完成最後一投。
If not jump shots, crunch time FTs are also crucial and we all know end of
games often boil down to FT contests. James never got past 80% for his FTs
for his entire career. Would you want him taking FTs at the end? Pressure
situations are when the truly the best of the best will clear out all
distractions and make big plays. Bryant is the best closer in the business.
如果撇開跳投,關鍵時刻的罰球也是很重要的,我們看過太多最後依靠罰球取勝的比賽。
James在整個職業生涯罰球命中率從沒上過80%,你會願意讓他在最後罰球咩?
真的勇士,會勇於面對罰球時面前球迷高舉的各式批評標語和龐大壓力,
而Kobe可這個領域的箇中好手。
3. Best Players are Long Lasting Players
3. 最好的球員是持久的球員
Given the short span of an athlete's prime years, a player has to think in
the long term when trying to build legacies. Bryant is 31 going 32. He has
logged more miles than Jordan. However his fundamentals are so solid that he
has yet to show big diminish in his game in spite of his more vulnerable
responses to injuries.
一個運動員的黃金時段是很短的,一個球員如果想締造傳奇,必須從長計議。
Kobe目前31快32,他走過的歷程已經比Jordan多了。
但是由於他極其扎實的基本功,儘管他的身體更容易受傷了,
他並沒有表現出比賽技巧的大幅度衰退。
Bryant has been following Jordan's successfully proven blue print by
perfecting the fade aways, footwork, and improving his post-up game during
every given off-season opportunities he's gotten. He even practiced martial
arts to hone his reflexes so that he could adapt more quickly during
basketball games.
Bryant一直遵循著Jordan式的法則,
不放過休賽季的任何一個機會來改善自己的後仰跳投,步伐,提高自己的低位單打能力。
他甚至練習武術來加強自己的反應能力,這樣他就可以在比賽中更快速地調整自己。
James has picked up Bryant's defensive tenacity after the Olympics and
practiced his jump shots to improve. However, his fundamentals are still
visibly lacking at this point. He's 25 years old. He's young but not THAT
young. 5 years can go by pretty darn quickly. With 270+ lbs pounding on his
knees, he will have to improve all of his weaknesses as quickly as possible
before he slows down.
James在和Kobe一起打了奧運後學到了他的防守韌性,改善了自己的跳投。
儘管如此,他的基本功仍顯示出很明顯的不足。他25歲了。
他還很年輕,但已經不那麼年輕了。5年可以一下就他媽的過去了,
當他的膝蓋要承受超過270磅的壓力時,他得趕緊在他速度變慢之前改進他的弱點。
4. Best Players are Obsessive, Egomaniacal, and Evil
4. 最好的球員有強迫症,極度自私,還很邪惡
The words may speak some negative air but they indeed speak great truth.
Bryant knew that from the moment he entered the league, father time started
eating away his opportunities for greatness and he had to be mean and
unforgiving with effort and killer instinct. So he scolded Shaq for his lazy
diet and conditioning. He does not smile or joke at playoff times. He
privately broods and scoffs at all criticism with repugnance but uses as
motivation. The very reasons that almost all haters come to hate him for has
fueled him even further.
這些詞聽起來有點負面的味道,但它們講述的真是真理。
Kobe從他進入聯盟的那一刻就清楚,時間正在慢慢吃掉他成為一個偉大球員的機會,
所以他得自私,不能容忍懈怠,不斷培養殺手本能。
所以他會批評Shaq的飲食和身體狀況。他在季後賽時段面無表情不開玩笑。
他個人對各種批評責難不屑一顧,但是會把它們當成讓自己變得更強的肥料。
每個討厭Kobe的理由都讓Kobe變得更強大。
Ironically, almost all competitive winners in the past whom Bryant admires
(Bird, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Jordan) were never nice but stomped all over
their detractors and opponents. The haters may think Bryant's ego is an alien
attitude unfitting of the league but it is very much original and a long
forgotten code of honor among warriors which today's naive fans and weakling
young players are unaware of.
諷刺的是,幾乎所有Kobe崇拜的好勝的人生贏家們(Bird, Kareem, Russell, Magic,
Jordan) 都從不給他們的批評者和對手好臉色看,而且從行動上鄙視他們。
討厭他的人可能會覺得Kobe的自我意識是在這個聯盟混得還不錯才有的驕氣。
但是這是這個聯盟最初,也是被遺忘很久的傳說中的勇者才擁有的東西。
現在天真的粉絲和聯盟中的軟肋們都不愛這味的。
The so-called competitive but friendly King James has lacked the killer
instinct which he desperately needed to get past the 2nd round of the eastern
conference 2 years in a row. The dancing, the phantom photo shooting, and the
trick shooting perhaps made him too relaxed.
號稱競爭意識極強極其好勝的但是也是很友善的King James所缺的就是這種殺手本能,
連續兩年衝不出東部缺的就是這種殺手本能。
他的舞蹈,他的照相開場儀式,他的三分瞄準鏡手勢可能讓他太放鬆了。
Legacies are built on playoff records and ultimately beating everyone. You've
seen the Magic and Jordan highlights. They're mostly or entirely playoff
clips. Bryant is widely known to enter a different mode when he goes into the
playoffs. Why do you think he's called the assassin? Why do you think he
makes that scowl with the lower jaw? He will not allow anyone to get in his
way.
傳奇的創造是建立在季後賽勝場和踏過所有對手的基礎之上的。
你肯定看過Magic和Jordan的高光,那些基本上是,或者全是季後賽的片段。
大家都知道Kobe進入季後賽的同時也開啟了他的黑曼巴模式。
你覺得他為什麼被叫做刺客?你覺得他為什麼擺出那幅齜牙咧嘴的表情?
他決不允許任何人阻礙他。
James somehow consistently dialed down on playoff time in spite of his
impressive playoff stats. I was really sad to see James pretty much giving up
during game 5 and 6 against the Celtics. Something was wrong. He definitely
did not mentally prepare himself for the big stage.
James不知怎麼,儘管數據豪華,一直在季後賽中表現不盡如人意。
看到他在和賽隊的第5,第6場放棄時,我感到很悲哀。有什麼東西不對了。
他在精神層面沒準備好。
-Conclusion-
-結論-
So there you have it. Kobe Bryant is the best player on the planet, RIGHT
NOW. This was never a rivalry. This was a construction and passage of
generation. Bryant and James are 7 years apart in age and experience. They
play widely different styles. A comparison was impossible to begin with.
應該得出結論了吧。Kobe Bryant是這個星球上最好的球員,現今。
這從不應該有任何的競爭,這應該是時代之間的薪火相傳。
Kobe和James有7年的年齡和經驗差距。
他們的比賽風格相差甚多。在他們之間進行比較是不可能的。
Bryant has had only one true rival his whole life: Michael Jordan. He is on
his way to catch up to Jordan. Bryant's ego was an innate existence that has
made him focus on honing his skills and mentality towards building a legacy
stamped by rings. His other accomplishments just happened during his pursuit.
Kobe在職業生涯中有,且只有一個對手:Michael Jordan。
他正在挑戰Jordan的路上。
他的自我是為從身體精神兩方面磨練自己然後塑造用戒指堆砌的傳說而生的。
除了戒指之外他的一切成就只不過是他在旅途上的風景罷了。
If James truly wishes to be the best, he needs to shift his attention
elsewhere. The ego he currently posses is a more of a by product from his
cronies and marketing bubbles. If he truly cared more about the rings, the
free agency talks, the college recruiting acts, the no hand shaking, the
camera confiscations would have been irrelevant to him.
如果James真的想成為最好的球員,他必須把他的注意力調整過來。
他目前的自我意識更多的是他的密友和市場泡沫的副產物。
如果他真的那麼在乎戒指,他關於今夏自由球員的談話,他成為大學招募新生的廣告,
他上季被淘汰後的無禮,他被扣後對記者攝影機的沒收都不應該在他身上發生。
I honestly don't know why he seemed to not care during the Celtics games and
in his post game speeches. He may have done it on purpose. Sure Bryant sent a
message 3 years ago by refusing to shoot during a 4th quarter playoff game
but he was truly surrounded by terrible teammates. The Cavaliers gave James
what he wanted and he openly admitted that he's got better teammates and a
great chance to win a championship. He performed better than everyone and his
team proved they could play better than anyone. James squandered the
opportunity away.
說實話我真的不知道他在和塞爾提克隊的比賽中,還有賽後的記者發佈會上,
為什麼表現得那麼不在乎。他可能是故意的。
對啦,Bryant是在三年之前通過拒絕在第四節出手傳達了他的資訊,
但他當時身邊的可是CBA級別的隊友。騎士給了James想要的一切,
他自己也承認他的隊友比以前更好了,更有機會拿下總冠軍了。
他的表現比所有人都好,他的隊伍證明了他們可以表現得比所有人都好。
他就這麼讓機會白白浪費了。
So to dear James fans, you have run out of ammunition. Right now Lebron James
is an incomplete, best regular season MVP. John Hollinger certainly didn't
waste time by diverting the blame towards the rest of the Cavaliers and I'm
sure many of you will follow suit by hating on the others including Mike
Brown.
所以親愛的James粉絲們,你們已經沒有彈藥了。
現在的James是一個不完整的,最好的季賽MVP。
John Hollinger沒有在把批評轉向騎士其他人身上浪費時間,
我也很肯定你們之中的很多人開始隨著輿論怪罪騎士的其他人,包括Mike Brown。
But c'mon really, Brown won a Coach of the Year award, James won 2 MVPs, and
the team got 2 best records and armed with better players. The majority of
the Eastern North America voted the Cavaliers to win it all. All James had to
do, as the best player (which he isn't) was to lead them.
拜託,Brown拿了一個最佳教練,James拿了兩個MVP,騎士兩次聯盟戰績最佳,
隊中的球員越來越好。美國東北部的大部分人都認為騎士會得到一切。
James應該做的,是作為一個最好的球員領導他的隊伍。
At the same court against the same (almost the same) team in 2008, Bryant
stayed on the floor and frantically attacked back until the clock ran out and
his team lost by 4 times the point deficit which the Cavaliers lost this year
in 2010 game 6. He knew his team was doomed but he never gave up and never
surrendered. If James doesn't want to learn from the past greats then he
needs to learn from Bryant.
在同樣的場地上,面對同樣的(幾乎一樣)的塞爾提克隊,
Kobe在08年留在場上不斷攻擊直到終場,
分數差最後幾乎是James今年第六戰輸的分數的四倍。
他知道他的隊伍注定被打爆,但他從未放棄。他從未投降。
如果James不想學習那些過去的大神們,那就學學科神吧。
So he needs to come back and do better. These are everything Kobe Bryant has
done and still continues to do. What goes on in regular season gets lost in
memory. I hope you'll all understand that the best player is the one holding
the championship trophy along with the FINALS MVP award after making playoff
winning plays.
他得浴火重生做得更好。Kobe已經做到過了,而且還在繼續。
季賽做到的事會被遺忘。
我希望你們能理解,最好的球員是季後賽過後左手拿著歐布萊恩盃右手拿著羅素盃的人。
I'm sorry that James's elbow was hurting. Bryant has been playing with one
leg and nine fingers. Which is harder to do in your opinion?
關於James的右肘我表示遺憾。Kobe曾帶著一條腿和九根手指比賽。
你覺得哪個更難一點?
At some point, this argument will resurface. Unfortunately by then, it will
be more of a passing the torch act similar to 1991 when Jordan took over from
Magic. If you wanted to see James become the best, this may have been the
best chance.
將來的某個時候,24-vs-23之爭又會被提起。
但很遺憾,到了那時,那會更像是火炬的傳遞,
就像Jordan在1991年接過Magic的火炬一樣。
如果你想看到James成為最好的球員,那才是最好的機會。
--
LeBron is amazing. Kobe is legendary.
--
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█ ★ ◢██◣ ★ █ █ ◥█ █φlin798183
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※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 140.113.139.225
推 ken52039:外電引戰啦 05/20 16:24
推 alonso1:JAMES對超賽也沒放棄吧 只是得分點真的太少他又被鎖死 05/20 16:25
推 edison751122:推爆! 05/20 16:27
推 cipherpol9:看起來打得像是放棄囧 05/20 16:27
推 kb81:對不起我明天再看齁 05/20 16:28
推 sheekat:推!!喜歡JAMES 但是討厭他旁邊飢渴的人 05/20 16:29
推 hope452162:超賽贏也只是運氣好,遇到不想打的LBJ 05/20 16:29
推 ken52039:樓上說運氣好?別笑死人了 05/20 16:30
→ ken52039:M了...厲害,厲害... 05/20 16:31
推 cipherpol9:超賽蠻有實力的捏 05/20 16:31
推 edison751122:前面有m是精華文嗎??? 05/20 16:35
→ hydra6716:是 05/20 16:36
推 gene9216:Kobe的部分完全認同XD LBJ我跟他不熟XD 05/20 16:36
推 sheekat:因為最高戰文出現了 哈哈 05/20 16:36
→ edison751122:好神>< 05/20 16:36
推 dkjirh:高級戰文XD 05/20 16:37
推 Bigcookie2:戰文出現!!!!!!! 05/20 16:38
推 hojoe:LBJ就算出局了還要被戰 新一代戰神XD 05/20 16:38
推 chinhan1216:真是愛引戰 05/20 16:39
推 righthand:這篇很像09年以前 拿kb沒拿過final mvp來酸的文章 05/20 16:41
推 CerMerlan:我看LBJ說他受傷也沒戴上護具 05/20 16:42
推 BeanBryant:LeBron is amazing. Kobe is legendary.大推這篇! 05/20 16:43
推 dkjirh:LBJ手受傷空檔還可以扣籃吊框呢 05/20 16:44
推 BeanBryant:今年最後兩場LBJ的表情真的相當失落- -半放棄了的感覺 05/20 16:46
推 benson:kobe-CBA等級隊友~>無能領導 LBJ~ASG等級隊友~> !? 05/20 16:47
→ benson:kobe~Final MVP~>靠Gasol 績效爛 LBJ~奪冠時~> !? 05/20 16:48
推 kurt310452:我看到CBA等級的隊友就笑了 05/20 16:51
→ kurt310452:是有沒有這麼誇張XD 05/20 16:51
→ benson:是在講旋轉門吧 當時的隊友也只有Odom比較好 05/20 16:52
推 jojo87:看一半end 單挑第一人給LBJ也沒差 看看今天的球賽 05/20 16:52
推 v00001:推 05/20 16:52
→ jojo87:Kobe現在在湖人是打團隊籃球 已經不是以前的KOBE了 05/20 16:53
推 killer75115:大推這篇~~和辛苦翻譯的大大^^ 05/20 16:59
推 homocat:雙重標準,無語中,KB拿40+5+5就是神級數據,LBJ拿50+8+8 05/20 17:01
→ homocat:就成了孤軍奮戰的結果,是累贅。 05/20 17:02
推 edison751122:約翰金真敢說耶~XDDDD 05/20 17:03
→ killer75115:老實說 看過騎士隊超賽 就覺得LBJ真的有點企圖心不夠 05/20 17:04
→ killer75115:關鍵時刻都看他很少積極要球單打 05/20 17:04
推 benson:LBJ拿50-8-8是孤軍奮戰阿 累贅是隊友(誤) 05/20 17:04
推 chinhan1216:同意Killer 05/20 17:05
→ chinhan1216:差距不大時 不主動要球單打 對上超塞 差距一拉大就很 05/20 17:06
推 homocat:LBJ缺陣時,球隊勝率不過2成,這隊友有點影響成就 05/20 17:06
→ chinhan1216:難救了 又不是像遇到湖人 差20分都還有救 05/20 17:06
→ homocat:騎士太依賴LBJ戰術了, 05/20 17:07
推 benson:圍繞LBJ打 主軸不見當然囧 當初Nash不在太陽也打的很爛 05/20 17:07
推 zard1983:其實兩個我都很喜歡 但...kobe的鞋比較好穿... 05/20 17:07
→ homocat:nash不在是,太陽不一定打的差,呵呵,包括CP3不在也一樣 05/20 17:08
推 edison751122:兩個都很強~一起拿冠軍就更棒了XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 05/20 17:08
→ homocat:一會我查查data 05/20 17:08
推 lovingkb:這篇我很贊成 但在X民眼中根本是屁話 05/20 17:09
推 hope452162:騎士只有設計23號戰術,當23號不想玩的時候就… 05/20 17:09
推 benson:CP3是因為跟配假有心結(誤) Dragic沒練起來時 Nash休息就 05/20 17:09
→ benson:很明顯球隊進攻會爛掉 別用誰不在幾勝幾敗來說喔 05/20 17:10
→ homocat:而且文章中提到LBJ在關鍵時刻就軟掉了,明明就是胡扯 05/20 17:10
推 jerry2588:早就說了 KO神 05/20 17:10
→ homocat:這是上賽季NBA Player "Clutch" Stats 05/20 17:11
→ homocat:LBJ第一名 66p18r8a3bs3st(per48min) 05/20 17:12
→ homocat:KB是第二名 51p7r3.6a1.8st 哪裡像作者所說LBJ關鍵時刻差 05/20 17:13
推 chinhan1216:有包誇季後賽嘛? 05/20 17:14
推 xinlovelai:要轉總版嗎 XD 05/20 17:15
→ benson:真要說也可以說KOBE的BB命中率低阿 這誰都知道 05/20 17:15
推 arthurkot:clutch shot的分母用的是per48mins 可信度? 05/20 17:17
→ arthurkot:LBJ的絕殺並不像KB那麼被害怕 這早就不是新聞 05/20 17:18
推 benson:要比數據LBJ是世界第一吧 數據拿出來他就是神 爽了嗎 05/20 17:18
→ arthurkot:雖然數據值得參考 但還是看比賽的感受最直接 05/20 17:18
推 killer75115:推ar,看完比賽真得讓我對LBJ有點失望=.= 05/20 17:19
→ arthurkot:今天LBJ若是被守住沒有辦法切入突破 大家的內心就會 05/20 17:20
→ arthurkot:認定他大概沒辦法了 可是KB? 他總是有辦法投進那種球 05/20 17:21
→ homocat:本文裡面雙重標準太嚴重,沒多少價值,不夠公正坦率客觀 05/20 17:21
→ benson:KOBE不能切也是很慘阿 這篇就是成就論英雄的戰文 05/20 17:21
→ benson:只是LBJ有成就~>英雄 KOBE有成就~>靠隊友 05/20 17:21
→ arthurkot:其實可以上你管子找一堆KB的clutch shot 的影片 05/20 17:22
→ killer75115:kobe不能切 還有跳投阿.. 05/20 17:22
→ arthurkot:一堆KB被卡死後還是把球"投進"的影片 05/20 17:23
→ homocat:ar,被卡死後投不進的球比投進的球多得多,只是不上影片 05/20 17:23
→ homocat:當然,高難度球如果投進了的話,會很漲士氣 05/20 17:24
→ homocat:總體上說,沒有好的出手機會,甚至極差的出手機會,不建議 05/20 17:25
→ homocat:出手 05/20 17:25
推 Bigcookie2:pxxxxxn表示:如過這篇在總版的話.... 05/20 17:25
推 violing613: 解構Kobe 那篇戰意比較高昂 =3= 05/20 17:25
→ arthurkot:是啊 但是KB有時會傳掉 有時會投 然後進了 就這樣 05/20 17:26
→ benson:被貼緊要嘛要到犯規 要嘛進 要嘛傳 一直爛投會被罵死 05/20 17:27
→ homocat:ar,你覺得出手機會極差的時候,你希望他投還是不希望? 05/20 17:27
→ arthurkot:KB那些球值不值得投那已經離題了 重點是KB的絕殺能力 05/20 17:27
→ arthurkot:如果確定其他人沒空檔 就給他投 05/20 17:27
推 kerry0496x:第四點... Magic人很好... 05/20 17:27
→ benson:你覺得KOBE被"卡死"真的不進很多? 還是你認為對一般球員 05/20 17:27
→ benson:卡死對KOBE也算卡死 那就真的不進很多 05/20 17:28
→ homocat:進了固然好,不進呢?難度超大的球,也就意味著命中率低 05/20 17:28
→ arthurkot:我一直推文的理由只是因為你給了一個關於KB和LBJ的數據 05/20 17:28
→ arthurkot:我只是在說明KB是個優秀的絕殺者 至於出手選擇是題外話 05/20 17:29
→ benson:那種貼很死的 通常KOBE會先要犯規 真的爛投的不多 05/20 17:29
推 abby4568:homocat你也不用在這裡爭了 關鍵時刻LBJ就是沒KOBE穩 05/20 17:30
→ arthurkot:B大 h大大概把那些kb要犯規沒要成的投籃也當作爛的選擇 05/20 17:30
→ abby4568:你提的數據我前幾天我也看過 但是那又如何? 你要不要去翻 05/20 17:30
→ benson:嗶嗶+進球+傳掉 應該不會比沒進少 05/20 17:30
→ homocat:不知道"一堆KB被卡死後還是把球"投進"的影片"有多說服力? 05/20 17:31
→ abby4568:倒數1分鐘之內兩個人表現? 05/20 17:31
→ benson:反正你認為嗶嗶+進球+傳掉的比他不進的多也沒差 05/20 17:32
推 arthurkot:h大 那個影片有多沒有說服力? 05/20 17:32
→ homocat:最後一分鐘的數據找不到,abby提供一個? 05/20 17:33
推 abby4568:況且你說的那個數據是倒數5分鐘之內 要說是倒數1分鐘的話 05/20 17:33
→ arthurkot:如果你認為那樣的投籃一半以上都是"運氣好" 那我攤手 05/20 17:33
→ abby4568:我看LBJ也還不一定能壓過KOBE 05/20 17:33
→ arthurkot:今天也有一個球員說我們的表現是運氣好 結果如何你知道 05/20 17:33
推 WEIKUNG:關鍵時刻 騎士不管領先幾分LBJ還是繼續在場上刷數據 05/20 17:33
→ WEIKUNG:KOBE則是在場下看板凳敗分 這當中的經驗就有差 05/20 17:34
→ abby4568:姑且不說聯盟之中教練票選誰是最強closer 但是你如果說 05/20 17:34
→ homocat:最後一分鐘的數據找不到,abby提供一個? 05/20 17:34
→ WEIKUNG:今天騎士把全部的戰術以LBJ當發起點 不管其他人能力如何 05/20 17:34
→ abby4568:LBJ比KOBE更適合關門 我想實在很難讓人同意XD 05/20 17:35
推 iamjustakid:好外電推推! 05/20 17:35
推 benson:WEIKUNG應該看看Clutch的定義 LBJ真的很屌 05/20 17:35
→ WEIKUNG:反正只要等空檔出手就好 結果? LBJ是得到數據了阿 05/20 17:35
推 fanrei:還要戰這個?你以為每次都是球傳個二三次就會有空檔喔? 05/20 17:35
→ WEIKUNG:問題是隊友有真的"參與"到進攻嗎 到了季後賽被鎖死 05/20 17:36
→ fanrei:你大概太小看一些防守強隊的防守了,有時傳不出空檔就是要 05/20 17:36
→ WEIKUNG:再來怪BROWN沒戰術 阿季賽不是都刷很爽... 05/20 17:36
→ fanrei:自幹,像LBJ很肯傳球呀,結果呢?還是又要說隊友爛 05/20 17:36
推 homocat:LBJ不打的時候,這幫超強的隊友怎麼不証明自己? 05/20 17:36
→ WEIKUNG:垃圾時間拿來刷數據 不讓隊友歷練 05/20 17:37
→ homocat:難道要靠輸球來証明自己的正確和強大? 05/20 17:37
→ WEIKUNG:再來怪隊友關鍵時候都不跳出來幫他...是怎樣= = 05/20 17:37
推 benson:因為教練忙著幫忙證明LBJ...(誤) 05/20 17:37
→ chinhan1216:LBJ該拿捏一下 自幹跟傳球的時刻 05/20 17:37
推 themartyr24:超級大戰文~ 05/20 17:37
推 a34567:lbj現在的打法我不覺得跟kobe0506的做法有什麼不同 05/20 17:37
→ homocat:今年LBJ不打的幾場,騎士贏下來幾次?那時候怎麼不歷練? 05/20 17:38
→ a34567:過於強勢讓隊友產生依賴 05/20 17:38
→ fanrei:文中就講了,超級LBJ迷Hollinger都閉嘴了,不要再推給隊友 05/20 17:38
推 Bigcookie2:總歸:給LBJ一堆明星 還是進不到冠軍賽 事實沒錯 05/20 17:38
→ WEIKUNG:喔 你整季甚至去年戰術全都圍繞著他跑 數據刷的自視甚高 05/20 17:39
→ benson:反正大歐大Z大V傑米森 MO 你們好好反省吧 05/20 17:39
推 arthurkot:a3大我覺得有差耶 50+8+8 跟 81 的差別 你懂的XDDD 05/20 17:39
→ WEIKUNG:突然不打 球隊輸掉就說沒有他真的不行... 05/20 17:39
→ WEIKUNG:湖人隊的三角戰術常常是場上每個人都能是發起點 05/20 17:40
→ huangin:誰轉到NBA板一下! 05/20 17:40
→ benson:幹嘛轉去被戰阿 數據提出來LBJ就是神 這點沒啥問題 05/20 17:40
→ WEIKUNG:KOBE也不一定要接到球 但數據輸LBJ就被拿來酸 真的是... 05/20 17:40
推 arthurkot:不建議轉總板 一定會被酸民把推文搞臭 05/20 17:41
推 chinhan1216:拉鋸時 不主動要球拿來幹 落後10多分後 整個追不上 05/20 17:41
→ arthurkot:裡面都是一些沒營養的推文 比八卦板還鳥 05/20 17:41
→ homocat:LBW隊友遠沒到明星的level,最多是過氣明星 05/20 17:42
→ homocat:給LBJ明星的球隊倒是有一個,那就是美國國家隊 05/20 17:43
推 mikehu:果然戰很大 哈哈 05/20 17:43
推 WEIKUNG:上面有大大提到重點 你給LBJ湖人這種隊友他一樣被淘汰 05/20 17:43
推 chinhan1216:大Z<==>Jamison都讓你拿到了 大Z也回來 05/20 17:43
→ WEIKUNG:為什麼? 因為他不想讓GASOL數據比他威阿 05/20 17:43
推 fanrei:果然又是隊友的錯XD 05/20 17:43
推 tkalien:還戰不用錢的...轉去那只有讓板主更頭痛吧 XDD 05/20 17:44
→ WEIKUNG:可能直了點 但我觀察他打球態度就是這樣= = 05/20 17:44
→ fanrei:看來LBJ只能去超賽或湖人了XD 05/20 17:44
推 hsuanku:看完才發現原來KOBE真這麼棒 05/20 17:44
→ homocat:作為一堆NBA級別球員,甚至你眼中的明星,難道突然組隊就 05/20 17:44
→ homocat:敗了又敗?你以為是ptt鄉民組成的隊伍打NBA?況且平常沒 05/20 17:44
→ homocat:訓練?大家完全不熟悉? 05/20 17:45
→ chinhan1216:超塞 魔術的崛起 讓LBJ完全走不出東區 05/20 17:45
→ WEIKUNG:homo大我覺得我們要聊站內信聊好了 不要占板面XD 05/20 17:45
推 arthurkot:h大 真的有很多神人換隊後就幾乎拿不到上場時間 05/20 17:45
→ homocat:咱就期待LBJ去HOU了,絕不會在LBJ不打的時候打出2成勝率來 05/20 17:46
→ arthurkot:我說的神人並不是指VC或Gasol這類 05/20 17:47
→ benson:Kwame-cook-luke-sasha-smuch 當時這些不知道算啥XD 05/20 17:47
→ arthurkot:而是大家有共識 一些表現還蠻優秀的B咖以上的球員 05/20 17:47
→ homocat:說句老實話,就算ab,scola,ariza,yao都不上也打不出來 05/20 17:47
推 msjeve:好戰文~~推推推 05/20 17:48
→ WEIKUNG:要是小AB跟LBJ一開始就一隊 一定養不起來... 05/20 17:48
推 Bryant0823:好啦 有個地方錯了 明年LBJ應該不會穿23號(他自己說的 05/20 17:51
→ Bryant0823:所以沒有 24 vs. 23 XD 05/20 17:51
推 newevian:我要推這篇好文!無論以後LBJ變成一個多厲害的人 05/20 17:52
→ newevian:他可能有一天也會變成偉大的球員,但現在我真心覺得 05/20 17:53
→ benson:反正等他拿到冠軍 輿論自然不同 成王敗寇.. 05/20 17:53
→ newevian:KOBE 大勝。起碼在精神毅力方面都是。 05/20 17:53
→ benson:希望兩三年後還有人在比較KOBE跟LBJ 這樣KOBE就更屌了 05/20 17:54
推 chancewen:等kobe退休再說吧XD 05/20 17:55
推 WEIKUNG:LBJ今年隊友已經比WADE拿冠軍那年的好多嚕 05/20 17:56
→ szuta:我想這樣比不太公平...騎士的supporting cast牌子是很大沒錯 05/20 17:56
→ szuta:但實在沒有湖人的好用(所以LeBron快來湖人吧 :)) 05/20 17:57
推 kobechampmvp:專業到不行的戰文 千萬別轉.. 轉總板水桶就爆了 05/20 17:57
推 righthand:LBJ一走 Mo會立刻變身Smush Parker嗎 05/20 17:57
→ kobechampmvp:不要說LBJ的隊友等級不夠 沒有穩定第二得分點 以他的 05/20 17:57
→ kobechampmvp:打法 換誰去都沒辦法穩定 整個戰術都圍繞著他 05/20 17:58
→ benson:LBJ一走MO就變成CBA水準 大Z大歐大V都奶油手.. 05/20 17:58
→ kobechampmvp:再強的副手都變功能型球員 LBJ的強無庸置疑 但每當 05/20 17:58
→ kobechampmvp:有人說LBJ可以使隊友更好 我就笑了 05/20 17:58
→ benson:傑米森會變成Cook這種軟蛋只能投外線 05/20 17:58
→ kobechampmvp:LBJ極具傳球天分 但不是噴噴幾個助攻 就是讓隊友更好 05/20 17:59
推 kb81:有些論點還蠻深得我心,但LBJ才25歲而已別要求太多了 05/20 17:59
推 BrianSol:看的超爽 給酸民去戰吧 哈 05/20 17:59
→ kobechampmvp:真正一個好的領導人是不需要事必躬親的 05/20 18:00
推 WEIKUNG:就是會有數據魔人覺得助攻多就是讓隊友更好 哈哈 05/20 18:01
推 allenching:這篇真的很中肯 而且比較還蠻客觀的 推 05/20 18:01
→ kb81:老大可是經過無數大風大浪,能有今天的成就並不是靠媒體而已 05/20 18:01
推 benson:wade的隊友很爛到是沒啥疑問 05/20 18:02
推 kobechampmvp:Wade的隊友只比0506的湖人稍微強一點點而已 05/20 18:03
推 limtiery:不得不說這篇時在深得我心阿... 05/20 18:04
推 benson:真希望Wade去公牛阿OTZ 05/20 18:05
推 pc852147:LBJ接KOBE的火炬吧XDDD 05/20 18:05
推 zealeliot:我推 LBW大大輸Kobe的就是擁有一顆堅強的心! 05/20 18:05
推 WEIKUNG:我覺得他把個人名利看得比勝利還重要 05/20 18:07
→ WEIKUNG:缺乏KOBE和WADE那種對勝利強烈的渴望 05/20 18:08
推 acenova:Wade去公牛 公牛就真的星光熠熠 05/20 18:08
推 alonzohorse:LBJ是很全面的天才球員沒錯 就是缺少能帶起來的氣勢 05/20 18:09
推 lays1v5:偉哉KOBE 05/20 18:09
推 shinjy60031:LBW跟kobe都加油! 05/20 18:10
推 tlw0709:戰意真濃...這個人國外鄉民~!!! 05/20 18:14
推 Bigcookie2:Mo AJ:原來我們是過氣的明星 好歹都進過明星賽 05/20 18:15
推 Bigcookie2:硬要說歐肥過氣就算了... 05/20 18:17
→ Bigcookie2:大Z 大歐 A.Parker 就算不算全明星 也算有口碑的即戰力 05/20 18:18
推 WEIKUNG:是阿 對照AJ轉隊過來前的數據跟轉隊後 看看被壓縮成怎樣 05/20 18:18
→ Bigcookie2:這樣的陣容 給LBJ 連東區冠軍賽都進不去..科科 05/20 18:18
推 b91314403:這篇超讚!!!!!!分析的超仔細+專業!!! 05/20 18:19
→ b91314403:不過等到下個球季開始,一定又會某些專家說LBJ>>>>KB 05/20 18:20
推 mr81lakers:LBJ最後一戰的表現有放棄的感覺 我感覺不出來他想贏 05/20 18:20
推 benson:kwame cook luke sasha smush打不出來~~>kobe無能 05/20 18:20
推 nicenick:推 05/20 18:20
→ benson:大歐 大Z 大V 傑米森 MO 打不出來 ~~>隊友太爛 05/20 18:21
→ b91314403:John Hollinger....籃球不是只有數據層面而已...= =+ 05/20 18:21
推 WEIKUNG:benson大完全點出總板的情況 05/20 18:21
→ mr81lakers:哇靠 大歐 大Z 傑米森 MO 全都進過明星賽捏 05/20 18:24
→ benson:樓上錯了 連總板都不太好意思說隊友太爛 05/20 18:24
推 chancewen:看完全文好累...翻譯更辛苦QQ 05/20 18:24
推 WEIKUNG:那就是說受傷+家務事了 05/20 18:25
推 gh34163:Kobe>>>>LBJ 05/20 18:28
推 will313: terrible teammates=CBA對友 05/20 18:29
推 KeN52710:馬的怎麼有隻貓一直吵 05/20 18:32
推 goldenlen:推~ 05/20 18:33
推 ycsheaven:KOBE對自己打球態度的要求真的很高 05/20 18:34
推 overchickedB:翻譯翻得很好!! 還真的是洛城男孩!! 05/20 18:34
推 Carmelo3:terrible teammates是只中國死神Parker嗎 05/20 18:36
推 kobesniper:中肯文 話說到騎士的明星哪個打的好的阿?? 05/20 18:38
推 funkycat:大推 05/20 18:38
推 tienchu5:中肯到爆 LBJ繼續練吧 05/20 18:41
→ chancewen:應該泛指當初的鬼爆兄弟XD 05/20 18:41
推 lalabass:說的太好了 推! 05/20 18:47
→ GANZ:LBJ根本是賽虜,明星加入騎士都被吸收能力,成為自己的數據 05/20 18:48
推 overchickedB:James: 1+1<2 Kobe: 1+1>2 05/20 18:48
推 ponystail:太爽了這篇,我總覺得JAMES就是比老大少了點什麼 05/20 18:49
推 tienchu5:講那麼多 為什麼季賽聯盟第一季後賽卻一直沒搞頭??????? 05/20 18:50
→ tienchu5:怪教練???怪隊友???怪傷勢??? 05/20 18:50
→ tienchu5:講白了就是嫩而已 講那麼多幹麻 05/20 18:50
推 Carmelo3:喇叭自己也沒說啥 不要亂推斷阿 05/20 18:58
推 bigbenrun:Kobe加油~這才是我們的神~我們所敬佩的黑曼巴 05/20 19:02
推 gingercookie:看的好過癮XDD 翻譯辛苦了 05/20 19:06
→ asdfe88466:推推 這篇看真爽 05/20 19:08
推 alonzohorse:LBJ沒講啥吧.... 05/20 19:17
推 sh211114:KOBE強爆了 05/20 19:20
推 sheilala:精彩 05/20 19:25
推 clark66:我好喜歡這篇文章 05/20 19:28
推 donyuan:推好文 簽名檔總括整篇文章 23vs24 驚奇vs傳奇 05/20 19:30
推 eric16384:太感人了~給個推~ 05/20 19:31
推 sycstyle:不用比了 光背號24比23就已經贏了 05/20 19:35
推 adobeteru:這篇外電超爽!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05/20 19:35
推 aotatsuon:推~看完心情整個大好XD 05/20 19:55
推 SNMY:戰吧 寶貝 05/20 19:56
→ Sephiroth:捧LBJ那段 還有數據籃球以及LBJ太在乎他的市場,他的身價 05/20 20:03
→ Sephiroth:外在的形象這些點都說的很好 他真的天縱英才,但是他的 05/20 20:03
→ Sephiroth:心態像一個商人 一個名星,不像一個職業球員 賽前完拍照 05/20 20:04
→ Sephiroth:這些舉動 更會讓人質疑她對比賽尊重以及看重的程度到哪? 05/20 20:04
推 FrienDx:看完了 推 05/20 20:16
推 willer:推外電 翻譯的真流暢 05/20 21:07
推 bitegod0921:說實話我也覺得這篇也太偏了,不過LBJ被淘汰只好隨便 05/20 21:12
→ bitegod0921:別人怎麼解釋怎麼鞭他,挫敗是成為偉大球員必經之途 05/20 21:12
推 momowawa1981:看到心愛的男人季後賽的變身 湖人球迷好幸福>///< 05/20 21:20
推 SureHappy:推 05/20 21:31
推 wassup:JAMES是準備接班KOBE的眾多人之一 05/20 21:35
推 AndKobe:讚 看了心爽爽 05/20 21:50
推 ace7449:24>23 這是永遠不變的真理 05/20 22:04
推 fanrei:Hollinger真是死性不改 05/20 22:10
推 naxatk:Hate me or love me 我愛這句話! 05/20 22:11
推 hikaruton:真!!終極戰文 05/20 22:32
推 tomwdc:傳說中的勇者才擁有的東西!!! 05/20 22:47
推 fireleon:好文推 05/20 23:05
推 ju13606:戰吧 05/20 23:07
推 Kreen:推~ 05/20 23:09
噓 MADDUX31:是8根才對 故本篇戰力不足XD 05/20 23:32
推 JimmyBuss:台柱 05/20 23:35
推 rocktu214:推 05/20 23:39
推 japanman:好文推一個 05/20 23:45
推 unique0927:PTT首推,Kobe神! 05/21 00:12
推 KadourZiani:你覺得他為什麼擺出那幅齜牙咧嘴的表情? 05/21 00:18
推 Fjchen:best player of this era 05/21 01:17
推 EricLu333:最好的球員就是在季後賽釋放無能人敵霸氣的球員...XD 05/21 01:45
→ risingsuns:好文 只是指傷、腿傷跟軸傷的影響和嚴重度 看法會不同 05/21 01:58
→ risingsuns:基本上 LBJ在季後並不弱 不能比較只是因為類型不同 05/21 01:59
→ risingsuns:位置不同 一年不過就一個冠軍 騎士隊一直都沒有ALLSTAR 05/21 01:59
→ risingsuns:級的球員 不過是ㄧ些很不錯的role player 05/21 02:02
推 spko:這篇很棒,我更喜歡以「ironically」開頭的那一段 05/21 07:57
→ spko:一個贏家總是驕傲的、霸氣十足的看著他的敵人 05/21 07:57
※ 編輯: LABOYS 來自: 140.113.139.225 (05/21 08:00)
推 kogeniusbe:戰力十足~給推 05/21 08:30
噓 longman1230:純噓"老化中,一下即可搞定”的塞爾提克隊"這句 05/21 09:20
推 bitegod0921:騎士都一些role player...我怎麼覺得騎士隊全都一些 05/21 09:24
→ bitegod0921:allstar,只是加入騎士被當role player在用 05/21 09:24
推 wind26:戰吧~ 05/21 11:07
※ LABOYS:轉錄至看板 NBA 06/18 21:14