[外電] 對手都說了：笨蛋！問題在Kobe！

[KevinGarnett (KG)]

附上來源：

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284837


What Kobe Bryant is doing this season is both phenomenal and unprecedented.
No player in NBA history -- not Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, not Moses Malone, not
Karl Malone, not any of the league's famed ironmen -- have come close to
scoring like Bryant in his 17th professional season.

 Kobe在這賽季打出既驚人且史無前例的情況。這是在NBA歷史上不曾見過的，
包括Jabbar、Moses Malone、Karl Malone，任何一個知名的長青球員，能在
第17個賽季打出這樣的成績。


Heck, most greats -- guys like Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robertson, Michael
Jordan and Jerry West -- didn't even play 17 seasons.

就連這些偉人們：張大帥、O-Rob、Jordan和Jerry West還沒能打到第17個賽
季。


So for Bryant to be leading the league in scoring at a 29.5 ppg clip while
shooting a career-high 47.7 percent from the floor is nothing short of
incredible. Before Bryant, Abdul-Jabbar had been the gold standard for
well-worn scorers, averaging 23.4 points in his 17th season. But
Abdul-Jabbar, who was 38 during that season, was clearly not near his prime,
averaging just 6.1 rebounds and 1.6 blocks, well below his career averages of
11.2 and 2.6.


到目前為止，Kobe是聯盟的得分王，平均29.5分，並且有著生涯新高的47.7%
命中率。在Kobe之前，Jabbar在第17個賽季平均得下23.4分，已經是樹立了
黃金般的指標。但那時的Jabbar已經38歲了，已經不是他的年代了，那時他
只有平均6.1個籃板和1.6個阻攻，遠低於平均的11板2.6阻攻。

Bryant, while not the athlete he once was, is still producing at the same
level he always has, posting 5.2 rebounds (5.3 is his career average), 5.0
assists (4.7 career) and 1.6 steals (1.5 career).

但Kobe卻一如往常的勇猛，有著跟生涯平均接近的表現，包括籃板(本季5.2/
生涯5.3)、助攻(5.0/4.7)和抄截(1.6/1.5)。

So it's very difficult to argue that Bryant is doing anything wrong in what,
statistically at least, is one of his best seasons ever. And numbers never
lie. But there are other numbers that say Bryant's offensive blitzkrieg is
actually hurting the struggling Los Angeles Lakers more than helping them.

所以這實在很難爭論Kobe做錯了什麼，尤其在數據上他更是創下了生涯年，
數據是不會說謊的。但有更多數據說明了Kobe的閃擊戰般的進攻，對湖人隊
來說是傷害多餘幫助。

This season, the Lakers (12-14) are just 4-11 when Bryant takes 20 or more
shots in a game. Yet, they are 8-3 when he shoots less than 20 times. And
it's not necessarily because of the opposition.
With Bryant attempting fewer than 20 shots, the Lakers have beaten the Dallas
Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets and
Brooklyn Nets, all of whom have better records than the Lakers. The four
teams Los Angeles has beaten with Kobe shooting 20 or more times? The
bottom-dwelling Phoenix Suns, Washington Wizards, Philadelphia 76ers and
Charlotte Bobcats, who have a combined record of 32-64 (.333). The eight
teams the Lakers have beaten with Bryant taking less than 20 shots have a
slightly better combined record of 87-112 (.437).


這賽季，湖人(12-14)在Kobe出手超過20次時的勝敗比是4-11，而在Kobe
出手低於20次時，他們打出了8-3的成績。這無關乎對手，在出手少於20
次時，他們贏過小牛、金塊、勇士、火箭和籃網，這些對手成績都比湖人
好。而如果Kobe出手超過20次呢？他們輸給太陽、巫師、七六人和山貓，
這些隊伍加起來只有32-64(勝率33.3%)的成績。而出手少獲勝的球隊們，
加起來卻有87-112(勝率43.7%)的成績。


This trend intrigued me so I decided to go back even further, checking the
numbers for the previous two seasons. The evidence was overwhelming: when
Bryant shoots fewer than 20 times in a game, the Lakers are outstanding. When
he shoots 20 or more times, they're only slightly above mediocre.


這情況讓我(外電作者)相當好奇，所以我決定回頭看前兩個賽季，得到
的證據更具有說服力了：Kobe出手低於20次時，湖人打得相當傑出。但
當他出手超過20次的話，他們就偏向於二流的球隊。


Last season, the Lakers were 26-19 when Bryant took 20 or more shots. That's
a .578 winning percentage. Not bad. But they were 10-3 in the other games, a
winning percentage of .769. In 2010-11, Phil Jackson's last season, the
Lakers were 24-17 (.585) when Bryant shot 20 or more times and 33-8 (.805)
when he took fewer shots.


上賽季，湖人在Kobe出手超過20次時拿到了26-19，57.8%的勝率，看起來
不錯；但低於20次時卻有10-3，76.9%的勝率。回顧禪師在的最後一個球
季，比例更是有差距：58.5%：80.5%。

So over the past three seasons, including 2012-13, the Lakers are 54-47 when
Bryant shoots 20 times or more. To put it in perspective, that .535 winning
percentage equates to a 44-38 record over 82 games. Over that same span, when
Bryant takes less than 20 shots, the Lakers are 51-14 (.785), which would be
a 64-18 mark in an 82-game season.

從上三個賽季來看，包括本賽季，湖人在Kobe出手超過20次時有53.5%的
勝率，如果換算成一個賽季，就是44勝38敗。在同樣的換算方法下，若
Kobe出手低於20次，有78.5%的勝率，換算起來就是64勝18敗。


It seems pretty clear cut: the Lakers are better, and would be better this
season, if Bryant shot less. At least that's what the statistics say.

從數據上來看，很明顯的，如果Kobe少投一些，今年的湖人會變得更加的
優秀。


But I didn't want to jump to conclusions simply based on the numbers, so I
decided to call some of the league's basketball minds to get their take on
the topic. I wanted to know whether Bryant needed to be reigned in, or
whether he's simply shooting so much because the Lakers' roster is so limited
and it's the only chance they have to stay in games.

但我(外電作者)不想這麼快只靠數據得到這個結論，所以我問了幾個在NBA
裡相關人員的意見。我想知道對他們來說，究竟Kobe想支配比賽，或是Kobe
只是不得不投這麼多球來讓湖人維持住比賽的分數。



I asked one general manager, an assistant coach and two scouts, all of whom
work for teams that have played Bryant and the Lakers this season. Their
views were strong:

我問了幾個GM、一個助教和兩個球探，這些人所屬的球隊都跟Kobe在本賽季
有交手過，他們的觀點非常的強而有力。

The assistant coach says:

"Absolutely, Kobe's shooting too much. When we played them, we told our guys,
'Look, we don't necessarily want Kobe going for 50. I mean, we're going to
guard him. But we're not going to double him, and we're not going to try to
get the ball out of his hands.' Our main concerns were not to let [Antawn]
Jamison hit a bunch of 3s and not to let Dwight [Howard] go crazy down low.
There's no question they would be a better team if Kobe shot less. Why do you
think [Pau] Gasol struggles? He's going to struggle in any offense where he
doesn't touch it.

助理教練如此說：廢話，Kobe當然投太多了！當我們跟湖人打時，教練團都告訴
球員們：我們不在乎Kobe得個50分，我的意思是，只要單防他，不要包夾他，不
要讓球離開他的手上。我們只要不讓Antawn Jamison投一堆三分，或是讓Howard
在低位肆虐就好。毫無疑問的Kobe少投一點這支球隊會更好，你以為為什麼Gasol
如此掙扎？當任何進攻機會他都碰不到球，他不掙扎才怪。


"At the end of the day, it has nothing to do with [Mike] D'Antoni and his
system. It's all about what Kobe will allow to happen. When you play the
Lakers, it's like they don't have a system. It's whatever Kobe chooses it to
be. If he wants to take all the shots, he'll do that. He'll pacify his
teammates early in the game, but then he'll throw up a heat check and if he's
got it going, nobody else touches the ball. And then the other team benefits
because the other Lakers won't defend as hard and they won't be engaged
because they're not a part of the game on the offensive end. Kobe has to
trust you, and it looks like he thinks most of his guys aren't trustworthy
yet.

而且老實說，面對D'Antoni的系統根本不需要做甚麼應對。因為他的系統就是
看Kobe想怎麼打。跟湖人打，就好像湖人沒有任何系統，只看Kobe的選擇。如
果他想幹進每一球，他就會這麼做。這對其他湖人球員來說無疑是傷害，他們
將很難提起精神防守，因為他們就好像在攻擊端被切割了一樣。Kobe也許會相
信你，但看起來他似乎認為到目前為止所有人都不值得信任。


"The problem between Kobe and Dwight is that you can't have Dwight on the
floor in the fourth quarter, so how can you play through him. In Kobe's mind,
that's why he doesn't pass the ball to Dwight. But the Lakers really need to
sit down with Kobe and say, 'At this stage, this is what's best for the
Lakers. We've got to play through our bigs.'
"Memphis is the best high-low team in the league with Marc Gasol and [Zach]
Randolph. The Lakers could play that way with Dwight and Pau, but with Kobe
shooting 28 times that's not going to happen. That could definitely work, but
the key is getting Kobe to sign off on it. The thing bout this league is that
every team is known for something. When you play the Lakers, you don't worry
about stopping Kobe. You just make sure those other four guys don't have
career nights because you can beat the Lakers with Kobe scoring 34, 35
points. Your biggest worry is if Kobe scores 25 points and has 8 assists and
then Dwight has 20 points and 16 rebounds and Pau has 18 and 11 and Nash
scores 16 with 10 assists.''

夾在Kobe跟Howard的問題是他不想把Howard放在第四節的場上，如果這麼做了，
那就無法忽視他了，在kobe心中，這就是他不想把球傳給Howard的原因了。但湖
人應該要告訴Kobe，在這個時間點，這才是最好的選擇，我們必須把球交給隊伍
裡的大個子。

灰熊隊是高低位打得最好的球隊，因為有M.Gasol和Randolph。而湖人也可以如法
炮製到Howard和Gasol身上，但當Kobe出手28次就不可能了。這招一定有用，但關
鍵是必須把Kobe抽離開。聯盟裡大家都知道，如果要跟湖人打，你不需要煩惱如何
守住Kobe，你只要確認其他四個人不會打出生涯新高就好。因為就算Kobe得個34、
35分，你照樣可以擊敗他們。但當Kobe得個25分8助攻你就要擔心了，因為Howard
會有20分16板，Gasol會有18分11板，Nash會有16分10助攻。


The scout says:

"One thing our coach always says is, 'Kobe's probably going to get his 28
points, but let's make sure it's on 28 shots and not 16 shots.' I would like
to look at some box scores in detail to see if the Lakers are down in the
fourth quarter and Kobe starts shooting a lot to lift them to a come back, or
to see whether he was he getting to the foul line a lot in those other games
where he didn't have as many field goal attempts.

"Watching the Lakers play the Knicks this year was hard to watch because the
other Lakers were just so bad. It was like Kobe was trying to do all he could
just to keep that game close. And hey, if Dwight's not going to try his butt
off and if other guys aren't going to try their butts off, then I'm going to
give the ball to the guy that's going to go for it, and that's Kobe. I don't
think it's that Kobe doesn't trust his teammates; it's just that he trusts
himself more. A questionable shot by him still might be better than a good
look for one of those other guys. To me, they look disinterested.

"There's no chemistry. They're not pulling for one another. They're just a
collection of individual talent that happens to be in the same place wearing
the same uniforms. They look listless. Not Kobe, though.''


球探如此說：教練總是告訴球員，Kobe得28分是必然的，但我們要讓他出手28
次才得到這些分數，而不是16次。看著分數盒子的細節，去了解湖人在第四節
若處於低潮，Kobe就會開始一直投一直投來反擊。但在其他比賽，他若沒有出
手太多球，他必然能得到很多罰球的機會。


尼克和湖人今年的比賽打得如此難看，就是因為其他湖人球員們很糟。Kobe想
盡自己所能的去讓比分不被拉開，但若Howard或其他人不在狀態內，他就會把
球交給他所信賴的人，那就是他自己－Kobe。我不認為這代表Kobe不信任自己
的隊友，這只代表他更相信他自己。他寧願投出高難度的出手也不願意有個漂
亮的傳球給其他隊友。對我來說，他的隊友看起來對這種比賽毫無興趣。


這樣完全沒有化學效應，他們不會彼此互相推動每一個人，他們只是一群有著
個人的天分，在同一個地方比賽，穿著同樣的制服。他們毫無生氣，當然，Kobe
例外。


The general manager says:

"Everyone thinks the problem is everybody else but to me, the problem is
Kobe. Take a look at Andrew Bynum's quotes the other day, where he said Kobe
stunted his growth. He didn't like playing with Kobe.

"And Pau? Pau's a really nice guy and Kobe just walks all over him. On the
one hand, it's good for Pau because it helps make him tougher but overall, I
think it hurts his game. Kobe can smack Pau upside the head and Pau will
still go back to him and say, 'Yes sir.' He's just too nice of a guy. But Pau
can play. They won a few championships with him, so this notion that Kobe
doesn't have anyone to play with and that he has to take all these shots is
just wrong. Go back to the Oklahoma City series. Everybody blamed it on Pau
and Bynum, but to me, it was more Kobe's fault.

And we know what kind of a player Dwight is. He's not at his best because
he's coming off the back injury and because of the system D'Antoni's running,
but it's obvious to me that Kobe doesn't trust him. And I'm not so sure he
likes the way Dwight jokes around so much.''

GM如此說：每個人都認為問題不是出在我身上，這就是Kobe的問題。看看前幾天
Bynum說Kobe限制了他的發展，他一點也不喜歡跟Kobe一同打球。

而Gasol呢？他是個很棒的傢伙，而Kobe壓制了他。對Gasol來說或許能讓他更為
堅強，但整體來說，這是在傷害比賽。Kobe可以敲Gasol的頭，而Gasol卻只能說
"Yes,Sir"，就因為Gasol人太好。但Gasol還是能打的，他們在有Gasol的情況下
贏過幾次冠軍，所以Kobe這種認為沒人是他隊友，他要自幹每個投籃的想法是錯
的。回頭看看跟雷霆的系列賽，很多人都怪罪在禁區雙塔，但對我來說，我覺得
Kobe的責任更大。

我們都知道Howard是多棒的球員，他現在不在最佳狀態，是因為傷勢和D'Antoni
體系的不合。但對我來說很明顯的，Kobe不信任他，我不知道是不是因為Howard
很愛四處開玩笑的關係。



Another scout says:

"That's been debated a lot -- whether Kobe is shooting too much. It's hard to
argue against that if they're 8-3 when he doesn't shoot it 20 times. But I'd
have to look at each game and study the game situations to really come to a
conclusion. I don't think he's purposely hogging the ball or doing things
selfishly to keep the team from winning. He's not trying to do anything to
hurt the team. If he is shooting too much, it's only because he thinks that's
what he has to do for the Lakers to win.

"My gut reaction is to say that Kobe does not need to shoot less. He's a top
5 player in the league, he's leading the league in scoring and he's shooting
a good percentage. That's a big key - he's shooting a high percentage. It'd
be one thing if he was forcing up shots and shooting poorly. But I will say
this, when you have as much talent as they do, you shouldn't have to shoot it
as much as Kobe has been.''


另一個球探則說：關於Kobe是否射太多的問題這已經被討論到爛了。但擺在眼前
的事實很難被反駁－他們在Kobe低於20次出手時拿下了8-3的成績。但我必須要
看過每場比賽的狀況才能得出結論。我不認為他是想要有出手權並打出自私的球
風來幫助球隊維持住比賽分數差距，他不是在試圖傷害這支球隊。如果他出手太
多次，只是他想要這麼做來幫助湖人隊贏球。


我直覺得反應是Kobe不該減少出手，他是聯盟前五名的球員，他是聯盟得分王且
有著很棒的命中率。這是重點－他有很棒的命中率。但我還是要說，當你有這麼
棒的隊友在隊伍裡，你還是不該要出手這麼多。




全文都翻譯完了，是我自己在朦朧的意識下翻譯的，應該會有不少錯誤，
請訂正。


我不認為一直逃避這個話題對貴版是好事情，這在國外的湖人論壇都討論到
翻掉的話題，為什麼在這裡不能討論呢？難道Kobe不是湖人隊的一員嗎？大
家討論難道不是希望湖人戰績變得更好嗎？



--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) 
◆ From: 36.228.219.181
推 afdm1234:可惜OP了XD
推 saintmin1002:這個不是已經討論到爛了嗎
→ sagesrock:是真的想討論呢? 還是只是看到一篇自以為的好文轉貼過來
→ sagesrock:耍好玩? 湖人版天天都在討論這些事情 只是酸民瞎了無視
推 ckshchen:這篇是翻譯不是轉錄，又有外電，總不會被刪了吧
→ tsungg:xd
噓 ray11843:
推 semicoma:之前有過一個觀點 Odom和Boozer還分別在湖人爵士時 爵士
→ semicoma:被Odom和Gasol剋得死死的 那時好像是李察大大大吧 說Kobe
推 misgood:翻譯給推 像我這種英文不好的人真的很感謝有人願意翻外電
推 ray11843:
→ semicoma:電爆爵士... 我只能說 這兩者並不互斥 並且類似這篇其他
→ baigyatsh:酸民會聽情敵教妳追馬子喔
→ semicoma:隊教練團的觀點 爵士不怕Kobe拿30分甚至更高 因為戰術系
→ sagesrock:拜託 你講的都是這個版的人天天都在講的事 有點新意好嗎
→ sagesrock:不要講得好像自己在發表甚麼很新的見解似的
→ semicoma:統有辦法扳平 但Odom和Gasol恰好剋死那時的爵士
推 mi810914:發了就一起討論啊~ 但其實說真的不管LIVE還是討論文都討
→ mi810914:論無數次了
→ sagesrock:這篇文章講的觀點 甚至包括數據 都有版友曾經寫過 根本
→ sagesrock:沒啥 只有酸酸想鬧版才會轉貼過來
→ semicoma:你就當我在跟李察大大大討論 不用硬要接話 ^^
推 zmx:說的倒是真的，講真的現在這版也不乏質疑KOBE出手數的，也是都
推 tension12:之前就一堆板友在討論kobe的出手次數了啊
→ misgood:何必這麼敏感 反正大家討論無數次了 就當一篇外電看而已
→ zmx:有在討論，要打成北韓版或一言堂我想還是站不太住腳吧
→ sagesrock:平常只會酸的人 突然就有討論精神了? 也假得太噁爛
推 HsiangFly:推這篇 我倒認為轉外電文(國內文也算 但大家說素質差)
推 ToBeGentle:我覺得很無聊 就只是強的守不住 所以守傳導 喬丹 歐肥
→ ToBeGentle:也很多教練這樣對他們
→ sagesrock:接話? 又在臭美了嗎? 我是在臭罵你 誰接你的話
→ HsiangFly:來存心亂版... 為何湖版就不能接受國外的公評及觀點呢?
推 eternalzero:我覺得這篇文貼來討論本來就沒什麼問題
推 smallmac:哈哈,推一下sagesrock,平常那麼愛在總版跟酸民瞎起鬨...
→ ckshchen:你管人家平常幹嘛，就事論事懂嗎?內文沒酸，你管他
→ HsiangFly:非要很敏感的刪文 不敢面對國外對於kb的批評與建議?
推 umdm:這篇翻得好多了
→ smallmac:今天逮到機會來當一下湖版正義使者就讓他當一下阿....
推 mi810914:樓上H大真的沒有不接受...可以去爬爬文都有喔...
→ sagesrock:如果是本版版友貼 我就覺得是要討論的 酸民?
推 semicoma:就算總版酸的寬容度高很多 我也幾乎只戰KB腦熱出手不去扯
推 nepenthes7:有英文阿 我最討厭看國內記者寫的文ZZ
→ semicoma:性侵案 你要認為我平常只會酸 那我也只能笑笑了 就頗呵囉
推 eternalzero:但是也同意sage的說法
噓 joveryant:這有什麼好逃避的?過去10幾年討論到濫了?你翻譯想要證明
→ joveryant:什麼?用幾個匿名人士的觀點來釐清爭議嗎?相信的人永遠都
→ joveryant:會相信，不相信的永遠不信，看看藍綠永遠二分法就知道?
推 Sephiroth:如果是平時就有在關心湖人比賽的,那我想對各大討論版來
→ Sephiroth:說這都不是新鮮話題～但問題可不是因為KB硬要高出手單幹
→ Sephiroth:來破壞團隊進攻,而是團隊一不順,他就習慣接管比賽
推 umdm:這個問題已經討論到 雞生蛋 蛋生雞
→ joveryant:讚揚的文章你怎麼不翻?心態就是這樣才被人厭惡 找到一篇
→ umdm:兩種相輔相成 並非單一畫分
→ Sephiroth:而這篇文比較新鮮的點在於,有對手策略在讓KB出手
→ joveryant:號稱有GM 有助理的來源 就好像找到寶 趕快來別人對版宣
→ eternalzero:策略讓KB出手一開始也沒全翻出來 他是要KB出手28次而
→ Sephiroth:但這早在04-06的時候太陽教練就說過了～我們沒辦法阻止
推 misgood:老實說翻譯不一定是為了攻擊或證明什麼 看完也沒損失呀
→ eternalzero:不是出手16次得28分
→ umdm:記得上季七六人的助教就說：KB第四節一定會自己來
→ Sephiroth:KB得分,但是我們能贏得比賽
→ sagesrock:那個一點都不新鮮 我前幾天推文就有講 板上也有人講過
→ joveryant:揚你的理念 你證明了什麼? 唯一的事實就是這傢伙拿到5冠
推 newsboy3423:當時的太陽教練該不會就是.......
→ Sephiroth:這都不是新鮮話題了～是真心要討論,還是轉文過來看反應
→ umdm:結果第四節KB果然爆胎... 打鐵到我都不敢看下去了
→ nepenthes7:就是冷笑話阿:)
→ Sephiroth:當勇者,其實看看總版底下推文不難理解
推 kblover:這篇根本在放屁  通篇都是垃圾
→ joveryant:mis大 可以看一下板主的文章 普通的文章為什麼不翻譯?
推 semicoma:其實Shaq時期就有過讓Shaq得高分但把其他人鎖死的觀點
→ kblover:根本就是鄉民等級的文章....
推 drfdj:支持湖人&Kobe並不等於看不見Kobe的缺點
→ RAGERACER:好啦，人家都鬧完回去總版邀功了，你們還在這邊認真推文
→ joveryant:找到一篇匿名的好像找到什麼寶一樣 大家競相來湖版發文
→ kblover:說的也是  好啦KB該先去自盡了~
→ joveryant:心態真的很噁心 跟KOBE可不可以批評根本無關
→ RAGERACER:何必呢？夜深了，該睡了各位。
→ nepenthes7:反正總板不是BOX板嗎XD
→ joveryant:你有本事跟KB的每一篇都來翻譯 我可以跟你道歉
→ joveryant:稅前看到這篇文章結尾 真的覺得很噁心 好像很公正一樣
→ joveryant:逃避勒! 每天酸KB的有少過嗎 看看NBA版下面那些推文
推 animalspell:何必呢？夜深了，該睡了各位。
推 semicoma:其實我不覺得在這些地方討論能讓湖人戰績變好 這些行為就
→ semicoma:只是價值觀的闡述或說路線之爭
→ joveryant:對啊 就好像罵球員罵的很難聽根本就是為了發洩自己情緒
推 smallmac:你還沒回總版慶功嗎???
推 newsboy3423:在這邊討論球員也看不到XDD
→ HsiangFly:暱名因為kb是當今NBA第一人+他個性 那些人還要在NBA混啊
→ joveryant:說是要檢討才會進步一樣的道理
推 ckshchen:自己看看 Chris Broussard的文章版上有幾篇some news
推 umdm:依KB的個性 他會對上那隊 盡可能自幹然後再贏球打臉對方
→ ckshchen:別篇都好多討論，就這篇文章他寫是假裝公正勒
→ umdm:看看KB過往被嗆得記錄 每每都會刻意達成 或是耍脾氣
→ umdm:當然 年輕時他有本錢 也有身手 現在我當然不希望這麼做
→ RAGERACER:什麼時候Kobe又變NBA第一人了？酸民不是最愛LBJ痛扁Kobe
推 tension12:真希望老柯多打幾年 不然老柯退休這群酸酸人生沒目標了
→ RAGERACER:是我有誤會嗎？我以為Kobe在酸民眼中根本比Yi還不如耶
推 sagesrock:ckshchen 你就天天把他的文章翻過來嘛 省了我們的功夫
→ umdm:還有LIN 和甜瓜 還有LBJ DW
推 Sephiroth:這只代表板友還是分的清楚發文者是想討論還是來亂的= 3=
→ sagesrock:這麼愛翻文章 底下有好幾個網站 天天都有文章唷
→ umdm:不用擔心啦 要酸的都會找到目標的
→ umdm:只是等KB退休後 過沒幾年 可能就有人會說當年KB很強之類的
推 HsiangFly:R誰跟你比pttNBA第一人.. LBJ的聲勢在現今NBA還沒第一
→ umdm:看看俠客 都快把他神話了 乾脆每球都給俠客打 看會不會冠軍
推 newsboy3423:實力已經是了吧
推 v00001:一堆酸民在這裏裝中肯真的太噁，真小人還比偽君子好多了。
噓 joveryant:其實最不爽的是他文章尾端的那幾句話 不然KB在湖版被批
→ HsiangFly:新聞數加倫奧說最大咖的是kb(新聞說的) 第一人有誤嗎?
推 misgood:有沒有人翻點Nash的外電呀 好想知道是不是真的對勇士會上
→ joveryant:評根本在正常不過了
推 eternalzero:簡單舉例就像是某三百在林版貼文認真討論Lin的缺點
→ umdm:蠻期待周日的 希望F4回歸 真的打出F4的價值
→ cheesesteak:討論到爛的東西還自以為挖到寶?
噓 joveryant:受不了 再噓一次
推 Sephiroth:放心吧！今天如果有個對岸的朋友在PTT發文大談台灣缺點
→ Sephiroth:這些很正直的鄉民還是會很用力的跳下去噓的＝ 3＝
→ RAGERACER:哈哈哈哈哈哈哈  "LBJ的聲勢在現今NBA還沒第一"
→ RAGERACER:不要讓我笑太大，晚上我會睡不著XDDDD
推 rock0077:讚美一下kobe他能夠踢走不喜歡的教練趕走不喜歡的隊友
→ rock0077:然後打鐵之後是加索太軟的錯誤，真是太強   了
→ RAGERACER:樓上你這手法去年就有了，要不要換別的梗啊?看都膩了
推 drfdj:沒什麼  酸酸裡有創意有梗的人才是有的
→ drfdj:但大多都是拾人牙慧撿人剩下的爛梗可憐蟲
→ drfdj:你要他們想新梗實在太強人所難
→ HsiangFly:你指的是實力~  我指的是聲勢或稱新聞焦點
→ RAGERACER:呃，MVP連霸又拿冠軍又拿Finals MVP，聲勢還不叫第一...
→ RAGERACER:你們真的很奇怪ㄋㄟ，說Kobe好叫作迷迷，說Kobe弱也不行
推 tension12:LBJ至少拿個三冠創造熱火王朝再說吧
→ HsiangFly:倫奧都說 全奧運運動員最大咖是kb 奧運新聞kb也>LBJ
推 ai5767cs:反正只要罵到KOBE就會有一堆迷迷群情激憤 如果今天這篇
→ eternalzero:反正你個頭(1s
→ ai5767cs:文章是講其他湖人隊員就沒事了
推 o0991758566:沒差 老問題 自己覺得怎樣就是怎樣吧~
→ o0991758566:KOBE本來就老大阿
→ ai5767cs:我喜歡KOBE 看到他自幹就很不爽 結果原來不爽在湖人版不
→ ai5767cs:能討論  這板背酸也不意外
→ sagesrock:又一個瞎子來了 又在講甚麼其他湖人隊員的狗屁
推 choco1202:現今第一人:LBJ 毫無疑問
→ cheesesteak:Kobe也一堆版友酸打鐵自幹好嗎? live文或是討論很多
→ cheesesteak:只是Kobe迷很多 自然會有人擁護
→ sagesrock:現在連Kobe迷都常常崩潰罵Kobe了
→ nepenthes7:不然毒比哪來的....
→ kblover:dooooooobe
→ sagesrock:你都沒看過那個天字第一號Kobe迷Kobeslaker怎麼崩潰 XD
推 DC17:跟鬼遮眼沒兩樣...說是湖迷或常來看，結果有些東西會自動省略
→ HsiangFly:當我沒解釋清楚 聲勢=最有名,fame=kb  power=場上=LBJ
→ kblover:天字號第一kobe迷又常崩潰應該是kb81喔XDDD
推 choco1202:樓上也差不多阿XDD
→ HsiangFly:聲勢的英文解  power跟fame都可解 中文=聲威與氣勢@@
→ kblover:其實我說自己是天字第N號Kobe迷也不為過...
→ kblover:被choco發現了=v=
→ kblover:但我還沒崩潰過= =
→ HsiangFly:我認為的聲勢偏向fame  別人的聲勢偏向power啊XD
→ satheni:我比較好奇這文章的正確性...對手是不是就真的這樣做...
→ cheesesteak:放一個明星球員 守死其他球員不是戰術的一種嗎?
噓 u2gogowin:=.= 好無聊的人阿 呵呵 膽小鬼有種去LA嗆KB阿 科科
→ nepenthes7:應該在KB失去被包能力就已經會這樣做了吧....
→ cheesesteak:LBJ也會被這樣策略性防守吧?
→ nepenthes7:吸怪吸不住怪當然跑囉
→ nepenthes7:灰熊的打法去年就已經是只放TA一個守了
噓 yeo12:吵死了
推 ice80712:kobe不是不會傳球...二連霸時期團隊發揮得很棒...
推 lifeenjoier:有個問題需要被思考的是 難道一個球隊真的可以因為一
→ lifeenjoier:個人 其他人就完全沒有出手數和機會嗎? 如果是，那是
→ lifeenjoier:什麼樣的球隊會導致這樣的情況? 隊員之間難道沒溝通嗎
→ lifeenjoier:教練難道真的沒戰術嗎 還是有人真的強勢到教練隊友都
→ lifeenjoier:毫無影響力 他可以繼續出手而不被任何狀況左右...甚至
→ lifeenjoier:維持了幾乎17個球季? 這種狀況下難道跟戰術沒關係?
→ lifeenjoier:跟球隊內習慣打法沒關係? 跟球員彼此配合默契沒關係?
→ lifeenjoier:還有......一樣的問題 哪些是固定變因 哪些是應變變因
→ lifeenjoier:哪些才真的是自變變因...Reverse causation是有可能的
推 njong:如果顛峰期KOBE遇到這樣的敵對教練多好阿~最好都單防我~
推 makyan:可是已經是退化的KOBE了，還大量持球 對面表示:潮爽的
噓 GTQchris:結果論阿 問題是防守 而不是他的得分
噓 Ilovemama:不管啦  就是要給KOBE得分啦  鳥你們喔
推 ToBeGentle:他今年效率不大量遲到 對面才表示潮爽的
噓 NinePi:貴版?
噓 river0927:管很大
噓 arthurkot:其他人打不開當然球會回到KB手上  輿論喜歡營造出KB獨大
→ arthurkot:也不是一兩天的事  實際上就是辦不到!!! KB不會傳給沒
→ arthurkot:手感的人 關鍵時刻能自己打掉就打掉了
噓 QQBALL:毫無心意一直在講一樣的東西
推 moonshield:推!
噓 hankkchang:廢文
→ lonelysam:拜託  kb連跟歐肥同隊都搶球搶成那樣了~  dh哪根蔥= =
推 johnathan717:第8段有點翻錯了，"it has nothing to do with..."
→ johnathan717:打錯了是第8頁，應該是，比賽成績和冷笑話的體系無關
→ johnathan717:我會翻成"跟冷笑話的系統無關，只在於Kobe想怎麼打"
→ satheni:kobe的能力太過優秀，總覺得這樣子隊友很難自己攻擊吧..
→ satheni:明明有個更好的得分機在那，自己上卻沒進，會不會是另一種
→ satheni:壓力
噓 szuta:這種笨蛋標題跟他客氣甚麼,出版社蠢,老百姓不用跟著蠢
推 lave70:賈霸38歲能有那種得分量 也是妖怪了
推 lonelysam:推!~
噓 violing613:標題翻譯成這樣還好意思裝客觀？汝何不食屎去？安安