[情報] Joey Votto at center of scouts vs. sta

[abc12812 ()]

http://tinyurl.com/ojt2uf9

 The old school scout is tanned and paunchy. His face is leathery from
decades of sitting in sunburned high school bleachers; his eyes are wrinkled
from all the squinting. Cut him open, he bleeds rosin. He has a radar gun, a
notebook and some binoculars. He knows what he knows.

"Joey Votto is supposed to drive in runs,'' he says. "The guys in front of
him are paid to score them. When you're batting third in any lineup, if
you're taking close pitches with runners on base, you're not doing your job.''

The new age executive is young and lean. He wears a tie. He has a laptop,
which he opens to reveal the secrets of baseball. His secrets, anyway. He
looks at the old scout and says, "Tell me again where you got your Economics
degree?''

The young exec uses terms the scout finds exotic. He seems to talk in code:
WAR. OPS. BABIP.

BABIP?

The exec loves Joey Votto. He thinks Votto earns every penny of the $9.5
million he's making this year, and the $225 million he will make through
2023, if he plays out his current contract. The young exec knows what he
knows.

"Look how much better he makes the hitters around him,'' he says. "Look at
the opportunities he's creating to score runs, not just for himself, but for
others.''

The debate rages. Scout says, "He has 22 RBIs in 47 games. That's a 75-RBI
pace. Unacceptable.''

Young exec says, "He's in the top five in nearly every offensive category
directly related to run production. RBIs are a dated way to measure a
player's offensive ability.''

Scout pauses, arms his mouth with a bit of Skoal Wintergreen to pouch his
lower lip. Momentarily, he will line a fine stream of brown at the
executive's Cole Haans. "My number three hitter isn't walking with runners in
scoring position. Not on a pitch that's a quarter-inch off the plate,'' he
says.

And so it goes. The Cincinnati Reds first baseman, a former NL MVP and a
current cornerstone of one of the best teams in the game, is at the center of
a fascinating discussion between old and new, Skoal and Skype, traditional
and innovative. The narrative is ongoing, and won't change until Votto starts
crashing balls into the seats and the gaps. Until he has more RBIs than, oh,
Yuniesky Betancourt.

Votto has seven homers and 22 RBIs. He needed three homers and 5 RBIs in the
past week, just to reach those modest totals. Nine National League first
basemen have driven in more runs. Three of Votto's own teammates have more
RBI. Miguel Cabrera alone had 55 driven in after Thursday's games.

This has caused some consternation in Cincinnati, where worrying about the
Reds -- regardless of their success -- is something of a birthright. "I
definitely fall on the old school side. He's not paid to walk,'' says Reds
Hall of Fame announcer Marty Brennaman. "Walking is a byproduct of being a
good hitter. He's paid to drive in runs.''

What do you want from a No. 3 hitter?

If Votto batted second, there would be no discussion. Best two-hole hitter in
the game. If he led off, ditto. In fact, if Votto batted anywhere but 3rd or
4th, the old scout would sooner mix the Skoal in with his corn flakes than
say a discouraging word.

Even so, no one thinking clearly would suggest Votto isn't one of the four or
five best hitters in baseball. The exec opens his laptop. Numbers appear:

Average: .358, second-best in the game.

On-base percentage: .484, best in the game.

On-base plus slugging: 1.030, third.

Runs: 38, second.

Hits: 63, fourth.

Next case, counselor.

Votto also leads this world and possibly several others in bases on balls
with 41. He's like the kid who scrapes the lima beans out of the succotash.
Votto is discriminating. Some would say overly so.

Marty Brennaman: "Votto will take a 3-0 pitch an inch off the outside corner,
when he could do with it what he did (Wednesday),'' when he drilled said
pitch into the lower deck at Citi Field, for his seventh homer. "I believe in
expanding your strike zone when you have guys on base.''

"He's frustrating if you're solely attached to traditional stats,'' says Jay
Jaffe, an SI.com baseball writer and stats guru. "Look at the entirety of his
production. I'll gladly pay a guy (Votto's salary) who has an OPS of 1.000.
He's keeping the line moving.''

Personally, Votto doesn't care what others think, unless the other is Ted
Williams. When he was in the minor leagues, Votto carried a dog-eared copy of
Williams' classic book, The Science of Hitting. Now, he not only has it
memorized, he lives it. When you ask Votto what homers and RBIs mean to him,
he'll say, paraphrasing, "Not much. The process matters. Hitting your pitch
matters. If I do that, those numbers will be there.''

It's hard to dispute. There's no SABER-stat for Best Eye in the Game. Votto
would certainly be in the center of that photo. Because he's so keen, umpires
give him the benefit of the doubt on close pitches. That only encourages his
keenness.

And yet. . .

Votto has 22 RBIs, even as he has baseball's current best leadoff hitter,
Shin-Soo Choo, setting his table. The biggest beneficiary of Votto's
pickiness has been Brandon Phillips. The Cincinnati second baseman and
cleanup hitter leads the NL in runs batted in. He's doing the work some think
Votto ought to be doing. But as Jaffe says, "You can nitpick. They're
winning. They're scoring runs. It's a team game. As long as he's not the only
guy hitting. . .''

For the moment, Votto is what Jaffe calls "a flashpoint in the culture war
between" old and new ways of thinking. He has Ted Williams' eye. He's not
hitting Ted Williams' home runs, though, or producing the Splinter's RBIs.
Until he does, new age executive is flashing his laptop, and the old school
scout is loading up with Skoal.


球探: Votto只顧撿保送而沒盡到打回隊友的中心打者責任

年輕數據派: 看看Votto是如何讓隊友變得更好

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) 
◆ From: 108.252.142.81
推 OoyaoO:棒球素養
→ maxspeed150:昨天棒球板才有把打點當打擊能力最重要數據的......
推 eon4:Phillips:低調低調
→ pujos:最近兩年有一點點這類跡象.天知道是好是壞
→ GN2000:不過打點是有點少沒錯..........
推 Car1osCorrea:Votto:不爽你來打~
推 noahlin:調個棒次就好啦 撿保送還被嫌
推 live4132:殺豬公球探
推 OoyaoO:打點少另一個原因是紅人二棒OBP根本悲劇
推 pujos:你應該不會希望你最好的打者是打線上最會撿保送的
→ pujos:我猜這才是old school印象派想說的話
推 ps20012001:除非秋信守換到Votto後面..不然硬打壞球 不如選掉
→ andyandyandy:這... 我還以為最不會出局的可以算最好的打者欸?
→ pujos:最不會出局沒用阿.你BB上去後面out回家...
→ pujos:棒球從來都不是XR27一隊
→ pujos:如果一隊9個打者都叫Joey Votto.那無論怎麼BB下一個上來的
→ pujos:都是Joey Votto當然沒差.但是現實可不是如此
→ pujos:一個Votto BB上壘後.下一次要在輪到.得8個人次後了
推 softmm:所以強打看到壞球也要去打嗎?
→ pujos:可惜現實沒辦法同時模擬兩種情況.誰也不知到底哪種選擇
→ pujos:對球隊"最佳"
→ softmm:我以為強打是能夠選出好球，並且確實攻擊這個好球的人
推 cjepj:曾經沒人保護的BB爺表示:
→ ronald000:排Votto後面的棒次多少有點責任吧
推 OoyaoO:沒Votto強又不是後面的錯  Phillips跟Bruce也很好了
推 maxspeed150:現在是有幾個人跟Votto一樣強啊XD
→ maxspeed150:所以BB爺以強打來說打點也不算多啊 只是他太神了
→ maxspeed150:所以即使大家都不丟好球給他打 他還是能敲回100 RBI
推 whj0530:大吉表示:
→ ronald000:不是說要多強，至少不用對Votto投那麼開
→ pujos:看Votto的z-s.o-s.很明顯揮棒慾望最近2-3季掉不少
推 OoyaoO:不是說要多強  那到底是要多強XD
→ pujos:以他的選球跟contact帳面會變很漂亮完全不意外阿
→ pujos:另外投手對他也沒有丟的多閃.起碼沒有大幅變動
推 maxspeed150:往另一個方向想 攻擊把握性較低的球讓自己出局的話 連
→ maxspeed150:做球給下一棒的機會都沒有
推 iamyamashi:有趣 直得討論
推 pujos:看你喜歡2010年的Votto.還是這兩年的Votto吧
→ pujos:都是頂尖打者完全不用討論.但是一邊偏長打.一邊OBP爆高
推 conan805:美國恰恰嗎XD
推 ck3300511:跟恰恰不一樣吧= =
推 MongolSoul:哪樣好沒一定吧 要看後面棒次的強弱取決要否積極揮擊
推 ocean11:米糕表示：有打點，我自己吃了，不用留給後面胖王子 XD
推 immortalqq:重點是Votto就吃不到打點 Phillips也做不到保護他的能
推 Nocturnecat:所以今年的小賈斯汀& Harper也實在很不應該~(誤
→ atengo:卡布太誇張了,才5月底已經57分打點
推 perry429:不過Philips打點也不少啊，算是有盡到責任啊
推 Alexander13:米糕2013紫卡一張，end。