作者nolander (Dent)
看板RedSox
標題Re: [閒聊]Fenway renovations start with pitching
時間Sat Oct 15 03:03:20 2011
※ 引述《Orcish》之銘言：
: 文中提到
: 如果搞得定投手戰力＆這兩年還想競逐冠軍 那麼就留下Ells
: 如果無力再簽大約(∵與A-Gon、CC簽下巨額長約) 那麼應該考慮交易掉Ells
: 他目前交易價值很高
: 舉例來說
: 拿Ells＋Buchholz／Daniel Bard換Felix Hernandez 再用Beckett換個先發外野…
: http://goo.gl/zLsJf
: When the Red Sox ultimately get around to fixing their on-field problems, the
: obvious focus should be on the pitching staff. And what the Red Sox need
: there, more than anything else, can be summed up in one word.
: Durability.
想解決襪子國的問題
一言以蔽之 擋頭!!
: As the baton gets passed from Theo Epstein to Ben Cherington, let us all
: acknowledge that the Red Sox' greatest fears were realized on the field this
: season as much they were in their dysfunctional clubhouse. The Red Sox
: entered 2011 with a shortage of pitching depth in their organization, a
: problem that only magnified the clubhouse antics of a starting rotation that
: should have been among the best in baseball.
經理換人不提 休息室內不足為外人道的那些以外 最大的就是先發輪值沒擋頭的問題
: Even before the fried chicken and beer, after all, there was reason to worry.
: Among last year's projected rotation of Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, John
: Lackey, Clay Buchholz and Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Red Sox had a disturbing
: number of starters - specifically, four - who came with questions about their
: durability.
一字排開我們的輪值至少有四個一看就知道沒擋頭
: Beckett? He has pitched 180 or more innings in consecutive seasons only once
: in his career, that coming in 2006-07. Lackey? In three of the last four
: seasons, amid persistent concern about his elbow, he has pitched 176 innings
: or fewer. Meanwhile, linguine-thin righthander Clay Buchholz predictably
: broke down (spinal stress fractures) and Daisuke Matsuzaka's elbow finally
: popped after a career in which he demonstrated that he, too, is at best a
: 175-inning pitcher.
貝基特? 生涯只有一次連兩季投破180局 06-07
雷姬? 近四季中有三季有手肘問題 最多也只能撐到176局
八扣子則是手臂跟(義大利)細麵一樣弱 很可能會有脊椎壓力性骨折
牛肉的手肘也終於在多年操勞下爆炸 同時也頂多一年只能投175局
: Through it all, the Red Sox got little or no help from their player
: development system, which does not seem positioned to help much in 2012,
: either.
: For a team that has designs of playing in October, 175 innings should be a
: floor, not a ceiling.
且最近的魚塭在輪值上也似乎沒什麼大魚能熟成
依照球隊需要的10月競爭力175局應該是基本 而不是輪值的擋頭上限
: On the field, what the Red Sox need more than anything else now is innings -
: lots of 'em - though acquiring them is admittedly a tricky task. Short of
: someone like Mark Buehrle, the free-agent market is seemingly devoid of a
: true innings guy with a long history of being able to take the ball, at least
: when considering the level of performance necessary to succeed in the
: American League East. (Sorry, Javier Vazquez fans.) That makes someone like
: Buehrle an obvious target, though luring him away from Chicago may be
: impossible.
所以說 穩定的工作馬是球隊的首要目標
我們家養不出Mark Buehrle...
所以今年冬天可以試著把這隻長期穩定且在美東證明過身手的好馬弄來
(Javier Vasquez? 美東表示:__)
不過要他放下對白襪的愛恐怕不是容易的事
: For sure, C.J. Wilson is appealing. But with all the mistakes the Red Sox
: have made on the free-agent market, is now the time to overpay again for the
: best pitcher on the market? Didn't think so.
條子的CJ看來很棒 不過他近年表現好到可能讓這張約簽在生涯頂端
襪子似乎沒辦法再承受一張這樣的約
: Remember, too, that the Red Sox are likely to be subtracting pieces here,
: whether they be Beckett, Lackey or both. Even if Daniel Bard, Alfredo Aceves
: or both move into the starting rotation, the durability issues remain. (Bard
: currently seems to fatigue at 70 innings, let alone 170; Aceves has a history
: of injury.) What all this means is that the Red Sox need to aggressively
: explore the trade market for front-line pitching, something that may require
: them to part with any number of valuable assets depending on the return.
別忘了貝機特跟雷姬都有可能被交易
就算我們把丹巴跟中繼ACE通通拉進輪值 也看不出在擋頭上有什麼保證
(單巴中繼擋頭只有70局...進輪值170+...我看不容易@@ ACE也有傷痛史)
由此可見襪子需要用力挖來前段輪值人選
才有籌碼換掉這兩張長約
: Yes, Beckett should be able to get them something. But if the Sox can get
: something valuable in return - and we're talking a true front-of-the-rotation
: starter - then they must also consider moving Jacoby Ellsbury, who might very
: well be the most valuable player of the American League.
: With all due respect to Ellsbury fans, do the math. Ellsbury is eligible for
: free agency in 2013 and, given his agent (Scott Boras) and history with the
: Red Sox' medical staff, seems destined to depart following the 2013 season.
: His trade value will never be higher than it is right now. If the Sox can get
: something substantial for him - and that is a very big qualifier - they must
: explore it now to benefit both the short-term and the long.
也許貝基特還有不錯的交易價值 但如果沒能換來什麼站前段輪值的好手
可能就得考慮拿愛絲貝力(今年可能的MVP)當籌碼
考量到他的經紀人以及之前跟球團互動不佳的經驗 他不太可能在紅襪長留
而他的交易價值也不可能比現在更高了
拿他換球隊的未來想必是很划算的一件事
: Let's make this clear: if the Sox can address their pitching needs and keep
: Ellsbury, making them a championship contender for the next two seasons, then
: keep him. But given the money the Sox have tied up in Carl Crawford ($142
: million total from 2011-2017) and Adrian Gonzalez ($160 million total from
: 2011-2017), another blockbuster contract seems unlikely. The Red Sox owe it
: to themselves to look into dealing Ellsbury now because there may not be
: another chance.
說明白點: 要是襪子能穩住輪值並留下愛絲貝瑞且連續衝擊美東冠軍 那當然留住他
但給尻佛和AGON的巨大約...讓這可能性極低
: What if the Sox can get Felix Hernandez from the Seattle Mariners for
: Ellsbury (an Oregon native) and, say, Buchholz or Daniel Bard? What if
: Beckett could then be dealt for a starting outfielder? Given the Sox'
: decision involving Mike Cameron two winters ago, the team clearly has
: reservations about Ellsbury's ability to play center field, anyway. So long
: as Dustin Pedroia, Gonzalez and Kevin Youkilis remain in the middle of the
: Boston lineup, the Red Sox have some offense to deal.
若是能用愛斯貝瑞跟八扣子或單巴包起來換到水兵的KING 何樂而不為?
成真後再拿貝基特去換個先發外野手就好
反正今年季前我們高層對艾斯貝瑞(先發中外)的信任有所保留
我們的中心打線還有小派 AGON跟光頭 應該能撐得住少一個愛司貝瑞才對
: Again, do not misunderstand. Nobody is saying the Red Sox should blow up a
: roster that looked like a dream team at the beginning of the year. But major
: changes must be explored. If the price is right, Aramis Ramirez might be a
: viable short-term solution at third base (a la Adrian Beltre) that would
: allow the Sox to employ Youkilis as a designated hitter and backup corner
: infielder, helping to prevent some of the wear and tear on Youkilis. (David
: Ortiz could then get his wish of playing in New York.) Starting in 2012,
: Hanley Ramirez's contract escalates to $15 million in Florida; is he
: available? What about Matt Kemp, who is due to hit free agency at the end of
: 2012? Andre Ethier? Shane Victorino or B.J. Upton? The Red Sox need to look
: at all of it.
並不是說紅襪必須組成像今年開季看上去同等夢幻的輪值
但輪值明顯需要調整
價錢OK的情況下 Aramis Ramirez跟貝爾吹都是很好的三壘人選
這樣光頭可以站站DH或是在其他人輪休時擋一壘或三壘
(而老爹則能順利去紐約打球) (<-譯按:哪個襪迷會這樣說話?)
2012年小亨利的約將破15M 小魚付得起嗎?
躲人雙臉Kemp跟Ethier?
Shane Victorino? B.J. Upton?
要勇敢在市場上先開槍啊!!
: And they need to be willing to pull the trigger.
: During the watch of Epstein, at least, the Sox were unafraid to think big. So
: long as John Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino are still at the core of
: the decision-making, that is not likely to change. The last time the Red Sox
: failed so spectacularly was in 2003, which happens to be the last time the
: Sox fired a manager. That winter, Epstein had deals in place that would have
: brought Alex Rodriguez (from Texas) and Magglio Ordonez (from the Chicago
: White Sox) to Boston for Manny Ramirez (to Texas) and Nomar Garciaparra (to
: Chicago). The deals blew up only when the players union objected to a
: restructuring of Rodriguez' contract.
襪子很敢賭大的 老板們沒換 帥哥經理常常放手一搏
上次襪子球季如此慘澹已經是03年的事 當然那年也是火掉前經理的那次
Theo一上任弄了個A-rod(條子) 騙人布(白襪) in 咩泥(去條子) Nomar(去白襪) out
的超大交易案 可惜被球員工會阻止了
: Whether the Sox would consider such bold moves now is open to debate, but
: they have chips to deal. Beckett, Ellsbury and even Ryan Lavarnway have some
: value. If a shortstop is coming back, Jose Iglesias could go, too. But
: regardless of what the Red Sox do with their lineup - and they have lots of
: options there - the one absolute certainty is that they must get one or two
: starting pitchers who can come as close as possible to guaranteeing them 32
: starts.
今年球隊敢不敢賭那麼大很難說 但球隊不是沒有籌碼
貝基特 愛斯貝瑞 魚塭的Ryan Lavarnway或 假如有買游擊的話 小鷹俠也能賣
不過不管對打線有什麼想法 輪值的調整已勢在必行
弄來一個能先發32次以上的投手是當務之急
: In so many ways, after all, the starting pitchers of the Red Sox in 2011 were
: just so darned unreliable.#
說了這麼多 都是因為今年的輪值表現實在太他媽不穩定了
--
※ 發信站 :批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 68.8.53.243
推 tanaka0826:推輪值他媽的不穩定 10/15 03:15
推 zxcv6578:推翻譯! 幹今年輪值! 10/15 03:21
推 lovemost:推 10/15 04:01
推 MinChuan:輪值看起來很威~實際上= = 10/15 05:52
推 ramirez:先發真是大問題 但要弄來King..甘無可能=.= 10/15 06:02
推 GJIRO:今年先發輪值印象除了老蝴蝶有一場投到八局的完投敗，好像沒 10/15 06:08
→ GJIRO:有一場是完投的 10/15 06:09
推 zirca:先發輪值他媽的不穩定，也別忘了九月八九兩局6次BS直接敗戰 10/15 06:27
推 MingXDD:不知道為什麼看成A.Ramirez和Beltre是很好"三壘指"人選 10/15 06:43
推 Greatgiant:Mazz從去年Ellsbury受傷之後沒多久就喊者交易他 10/15 07:35
→ Greatgiant:今年Ellsbury打出MVP成績之後 還是要交易他 Great!! 10/15 07:35
推 therock0809:掀發隱憂這麼大 真的會動北極嗎.. 10/15 07:57
→ therock0809:先 10/15 07:57
→ Greatgiant:話說老闆今天說話了 Crawford應該感到很欣慰 10/15 08:18
推 nisiya0625:翻譯:襪襪需要年輕又身體強壯健康的先發投手>////< 10/15 09:08
推 wamgern:推翻譯 順便幹今年輪值澇賽... 10/15 09:36
推 jameshu0910:Mazz的文章實在是懶的看...,賣夾克筆這支球隊也不用 10/15 10:08
→ jameshu0910:玩了 10/15 10:09
推 tsaiwaichen:Nomar都賣過了 為啥不敢賣Ells 10/15 10:19
推 betadu:我們是需要工作馬 不是需要Ace...... 10/15 10:51
推 betadu:這篇完全假定我們的SP會受傷...這個假定太奇怪了吧 10/15 10:52
→ dewking:說真的輪值他媽的超廢.. 沒一個吃得了局數的 10/15 10:56
→ dewking:Ells 當然可以賣.. Manny和Nomar都賣過了 10/15 10:57
推 rockyue:什麼叫Nomar都賣過了 為啥不敢賣Ells 情況完全不一樣吧 10/15 11:00
推 cyclonekkk:任何球隊有Buehrle這類型投手 會使人安心不少 10/15 11:04
推 nisiya0625:如果之前所說有部分人不盡力的話 那這位盡力的人不覺得 10/15 11:05
→ nisiya0625:更應該留下嗎? 10/15 11:06
推 cyclonekkk:是應該留+今年鬼神戰績 但國外的預測多半是留不住 囧 10/15 11:09
推 maikxz:沒有甚麼非賣品 但他媽的現在輪值圈是垃圾 10/15 11:11
→ Greatgiant:就算真的換好了 Mazz說Ells＋Buchholz? 10/15 11:12
→ Greatgiant:07年Ells＋Buchholz還沒有真正站穩就可以換大都會那隻 10/15 11:12
→ Greatgiant:結果今年一個打出MVP成績 一個就算常受傷 但起碼也是 10/15 11:13
→ Greatgiant:前三號先發 會不會賠太大? 10/15 11:13
推 beareyes:如果真的換到King 應該不會賠很大.... 不過有可能嗎= = 10/15 11:30
推 momoda:水手也不是傻子 覺得以Bucky的傷病史 水手自認還虧勒 10/15 11:33
→ momoda:況且King是何等人物 未來十年 年年都可以是賽揚熱門人選 10/15 11:34
→ momoda:Ells的經紀人 讓他很難長留Boston 不過就算不換 我們也還 10/15 11:36
→ momoda:有兩年可用 10/15 11:36
推 betadu:換到king是發了 10/15 11:37
推 betadu:Buchy未來十年大概很難投到去年的等級 10/15 11:38
推 betadu:我的意見是 我們需要的是工作馬 不需要出到Ells去換 Ells現 10/15 11:38
推 betadu:在當然在高點 有好貨當然可以換 10/15 11:39
推 SatoTakuma:Ells 是真的留不住嗎 = =?? 還是球團意願也沒很高 10/15 12:03
推 mike060606:有CC在所以留Ells意願降低吧 10/15 12:05
推 maikxz:他經紀人一定會讓他進FA...去年事件跟今年事件 大概想留的 10/15 12:15
→ maikxz:機率也很低 說不定到時跟球團談還被利用當作抬價格的手段 10/15 12:16
→ maikxz:所以能換到ACE當然換 工作馬還不如便宜用兩年 10/15 12:17
推 rockyue:Ells要留的話 球團應該把一些問題者清掉 以表示力挺他 10/15 12:33
推 SatoTakuma:現在的ELLS和CC 應該 不能說衝突很大 明年砲管還在的話 10/15 12:47
推 cyclonekkk:繼老大多次出來嘴砲後 賣肉也在訪問講他的觀點 10/15 13:50
→ cyclonekkk:但是砲火威力 跟老大比差一大截 XD 10/15 13:52
推 momoda:賣肉還是繼續去拍電影就好 不然就是去蘇丹維護和平~ 10/15 14:21
推 Edco:交易北極吧 10/15 14:38
→ kazumi66:總版的Henry八卦.... 10/15 17:45
→ Greatgiant:照老闆的話來看 球團應該無意交易Beckett 起碼老闆挺 10/15 18:16
→ Greatgiant:至於Crawford 看看有沒有辦法藉今天這些話激勵自己 XD 10/15 18:17
推 maikxz:CC態度一直都沒問題 找個心理醫師可能比較有用=_= 10/15 18:27
推 lovemost:就我看的感覺上來說，沒有像總板翻譯那麼強烈表示 10/15 18:51
→ lovemost:Henry覺得簽CC是錯的，只是當初簽約時他是站在反對派 10/15 18:52
→ Greatgiant:所以可以預期年底會找個右打的RF來? 10/15 18:52
→ lovemost:但是沒有強烈反對(所以最後還是簽了)~而且是基於棒球考量 10/15 18:53
→ lovemost:而不是只單純想簽個名星增加票房而已 10/15 18:53
推 GJIRO:Henry沒強烈反對應該是相信Theo的判斷吧 10/15 19:40
推 momoda:如果輪值會有大變動 Bedard會留嗎? 儘管更玻璃... 10/15 20:28
→ dewking:今年得分不是問題,把Ells送走還可以讓小派打一棒,CC二棒 10/15 21:29
→ dewking:能換個好投手真的比較重要 10/15 21:29
推 amyer:把 Ellsbury 換走誰守中外野？說的好像中外野隨便找都有一樣 10/15 21:32
→ amyer:而且要讓 20M 打二棒...一個不會上壘的二棒... 10/15 21:33
推 nicknhit:我覺得北大其實投得不錯 如果不要太長約我會想賭賭看 10/15 21:55
→ nicknhit:畢竟如果他能正常投 毫無疑問是個一二號 10/15 21:56
→ nicknhit:話說我們還有可能去找達比修或者是抓CJ還是搶CC嗎？ 10/15 21:56
→ nicknhit:最近大家忙著嘴砲好像整個一團亂 10/15 21:57
推 momoda:CJ之前有傷病史 而且剛轉全職SP第二年 更重要的是明年32歲 10/16 00:13
→ momoda:會不會現在就是生涯高點不知道 不過若像小李一樣大器晚成 10/16 00:15
→ momoda:也不得而知 只是我們簽FA的經驗 讓我很怕繼右手發球機 10/16 00:16
→ momoda:我們又多一台左手發球機 10/16 00:16
→ momoda:CC 也別搶了 我們已經有了一隻CC 而且代價不斐(誤) 10/16 00:18
→ momoda:不過幫忙抬價是應當的...XD 10/16 00:18
推 cyclonekkk:補強可能會等Cubs補償名單確定後進行 希望搶到即戰力 10/16 00:19
推 momoda:Cubs 不是不丟MLB ready的球員嗎? 不是只想用錢? 10/16 00:21
→ momoda:抑或新秀 Cubs版上有提到相關的新秀... 10/16 00:22
→ cyclonekkk:像Brett Jackson Ryan Flaherty等 (妄想中 XD) 10/16 00:23
→ cyclonekkk:是喔... 現實終究是殘酷的 10/16 00:25
推 Orcish:現在才有時間上線 感謝翻譯~~ 10/16 01:33
推 Orcish:Massarotti沒一定要賣掉Ells 他說如果可以搞定投手戰力問題 10/16 01:40
→ Orcish:當然就留下來用兩年衝冠軍 貼這文章只是拋個想法 大家聊聊 10/16 01:42
推 Orcish:總版那篇Henry有婊CC?! 到是看到些ㄐ迷腦補 到底在high啥? 10/16 01:56
→ Orcish:說到ㄐㄅ老闆 ㄎㄎ 就算只數美東 紅襪排不上第一啦 10/16 01:58
→ Orcish: 倒 ^也 10/16 01:59
推 tsubasa6405:如果ㄐㄅ程度只比ㄐㄐ老闆弱一點... 10/16 02:11
→ tsubasa6405:其實也沒什麼好得意的XD 10/16 02:11
推 lovemost:話說小熊的球迷很興奮呢... 10/16 02:14
推 Orcish:高層不贊成簽CC這是舊聞了吧 連落後台媒也早報過了 這叫婊? 10/16 02:35
→ Orcish:不會只弱一點 可以goo一下 有錢人是怎麼幹自家球員的 10/16 02:37
→ Orcish:再說ㄐㄅ婊球員又如何?! 錢砸下去"多數"球員還不是昏過去… 10/16 02:39
→ Orcish:Henry團隊給我的感覺是 現實 精算 不講人情 但還滿聰明的 10/16 02:42
→ Orcish:看價值觀與切入角度 我個人是偏向紅襪>>任何球員 較寡恩 :P 10/16 02:45
→ Orcish:總版推文對照原文 就像吃了一道「調味料遠多過菜肴」的料理 10/16 02:51
推 lovemost:I can't agree you more 10/16 03:15
推 dragon2000:看老大的炮火真是痛快 10/16 14:02
推 majohn:現在就說甚麼都不是 我不知道Henry有沒有說過那些 10/16 15:47
推 majohn:要是他真有說過 就該死 現在最好就閉嘴啥都別說 10/16 15:48
推 highlightboy:我不能接受交易Ells啦~~吼 10/17 10:12
噓 letterman:Orcish你一天到晚提總版 然後回來討拍看了實在很厭煩 10/17 12:03
→ letterman:啊抱歉這次好像是我搞錯orz....你只是在解釋而已 10/17 12:04
推 Orcish:我從不去總版或□版討戰、鬧版、被水桶，幹嘛討拍?! 10/17 13:07
→ Orcish:我常牢騷總版 是因對於□迷100步笑50步 不斷對紅襪丟石頭、 10/17 13:10
→ Orcish:吐口水 看不下去 不得不發 你可以搜一下我的文 10/17 13:12
→ Orcish:一天到晚提及總版?! 同樣的話 你可以去對先挑釁的說 10/17 13:13
→ Orcish:版規若未禁止 我想我有評論自由 就像某些情緒反覆的推文 10/17 13:17
→ Orcish:也不是所有襪迷都看得下去 人各有志 得罪見諒 ^^" 10/17 13:18
推 Orcish:查了一下 似乎就是□迷 那我收回上面最後一句 10/17 13:30
→ Orcish:如果真是□迷 拜託 不爽不要看 要譙要酸請回隊版 10/17 13:33
→ Orcish:□迷們不要再騷擾我 勾勾狄 金變態 ※原波抱歉洗了一堆廢話 10/17 13:37
→ nolander:XD這是哪招 要噓也噓對篇吧 O兄也不用太在意 批踢踢罷了~ 10/17 14:00
推 Orcish:LaRussa夠強悍 約也到了(?!) 10/17 14:36
→ Orcish:不知有機會沒 來"ㄉ一ㄤ"一下這幾個嬌慣的傢伙 10/17 14:38
推 GJIRO:如果紅雀拿到WS...Cardinals老闆會不會砸錢維持陣容呢? 10/17 14:40
推 lovemost:認真就輸了... 10/17 16:52
推 taker627:紅鳥先擔心普神留不留的下吧 10/17 17:23
推 Zamned:有消息指出你們可能會收到Matt Szczur,Jay Jackson 10/17 18:05
→ Zamned:Ryan Flaherty 1-2位球員 10/17 18:05
推 Ungoliant:樓上好像就是Matt Szczur的ID持有者? 要來襪襪當2013不 10/17 20:44
→ Ungoliant:動一棒嗎? 哈哈 (前提是小帥哥沒走吧) 10/17 20:44
推 jameshu0910:其實Theo走後一直有個想法,把Lucky&誇佛這兩個自己造 10/17 21:01
→ jameshu0910:的業一起打包,換SORI跟大Z,年薪差不多但大Z明年就解套 10/17 21:03
→ jameshu0910:SORI14年也約滿,長痛不如短痛...不過這真的很一廂情願 10/17 21:04
推 zxcv6578:誇佛真的就這樣了?才剛到一年應該還有可看性!加油! 10/17 21:13
→ zxcv6578:是說以目前表現來看真的太貴!貴多了... 10/17 21:14
→ zxcv6578:小換打擊姿勢那時好似夢一場... 10/17 21:15
→ idlypanda:大Z...我不敢想像休息室 10/17 23:06
推 nicknhit:我還是蠻希望CC可以狠狠打我臉的 既然都簽了還是有夢最美 10/17 23:30
推 dragon2000:轉RF然後每年打出去年的成績 才算對得起他的約 10/17 23:37
→ dragon2000:不過我實在是不敢期待 至於發球機 長痛不如短痛 10/17 23:37
→ dragon2000:我相信老大 一個還有救 另一個就算了吧 10/17 23:38
推 roverchi:我不敢奢望能處理掉基哥~而且己所不欲________ 10/17 23:59
→ roverchi:不過大Z是個好勝心強、重榮譽的球員~或許對襪子傳聞中的 10/18 00:00
→ roverchi:現狀~能有所助益吧~ 10/18 00:01
推 lovemost:大Z我可不敢像樓上這麼樂觀...特別是季末發生這麼多事 10/18 00:15
推 therock0809:大Z XDD...是要再一個參戰吧 10/18 00:28
推 MinChuan:來大Z...我們再擊敗對手前休息室大概要先亂鬥 10/18 00:39
→ MinChuan:CC我覺得可以再等看看= = 至於雷機,就放他去吧=_=... 10/18 00:40
→ taker627:我寧願要大Z也不想看發球機 10/18 03:09
推 beareyes:搞不好大Z喝了啤酒之後變成好好先生 10/18 08:45
推 momoda:有隱藏性的雙重人格嗎? 10/18 11:41
噓 letterman:Orcish你是哪隻眼睛看到X迷 看到黑影就開槍 又愛討拍 10/18 12:09
→ letterman:我看你才是X迷 不爽不要來啦! 這樣講很爽嗎? 查個鬼咧 10/18 12:09
→ letterman:我也收回抱歉 對你這種愛討拍的不需要^^ 10/18 12:12
推 letterman:補推回來 不是噓PO啦 10/18 12:20
推 Orcish:沒有100%確定 因此打上「如果」 不過連討拍都搞不清楚 算了 10/18 13:34
推 Orcish:如果是我搞錯 那麼我為此事道歉 最近被ㄐ群勾勾狄 冒用id 10/18 13:44
→ Orcish:冒用id幹譙 剪貼篡改我的推文 不一而足 10/18 13:46
→ Orcish:不在總版推文反擊 是為避免被圍、被桶 因此回來襪版牢騷 10/18 13:50
推 Orcish:既未引戰 也沒回嗆 這算討拍?! 版規沒禁 也有若干襪迷共鳴 10/18 13:56
→ Orcish:閣下不悅 自然敢請別看 不然我能怎辦？ 10/18 13:58
推 Orcish:"如果"都是襪迷 那麼請互相尊重吧 像我不喜歡幹譙自家球員 10/18 14:18
→ Orcish:板規允許 我有什麼資格去干涉?! 因此我盡量不看戰況文 10/18 14:20
推 Orcish:這就叫「不爽不要看」 而不是在情緒推文下留看了實在很厭煩 10/18 14:24
→ Orcish:換作是你 又當何想?! 言盡於斯 10/18 14:25