Re: [新聞] TotalBiscuit跟Crank的聲明

[allqwdd (乳乳)]

TIG: jessica revealed the state of slayers in the past interview. Have you
seen it yet?

TIG:你知道包嫂最近說了很多事嗎?

Mma: yes, however there are a lot of distortions in that article. But this
does not mean that the players are right and Jessica is wrong. I just wish
that people would look at this objectively and not just from one point of
view.

TLG:知道的，但他的那些文章是非常扭曲的。但這也不代表我們就是對，而包嫂是
錯的。我只是想讓大家從另一個方面看這件事。

TIG: you have a contract with slayers until November 6th. Can you explain us
the contract signing process?

TIG:你跟Slayers有一個到11/6的合約，你可以說說這個簽約過程嗎?

Mma: before signing the contract, Jessica said that she made it similar to a
celebrity (actors/actresses) contract. At first, she told us that the only
way to get a sponsor was to let the potential sponsors know that ‘we have
play x, y and z’. So kimdongju (ganzi), kimsangjun (puzzle), kimdongwon
(ryung), yangjunshik (Alicia) along with myself signed the contract. As
mentioned before from Jessica, it was purely for the purpose of securing a
sponsor and she made us at ease with that statement, and the contract was
signed. Some players that signed did not even bother to read the contract and
trusted Jessica’s words.

MMA:簽這個合約前，包嫂說他是參考演藝人員的那種方式簽的。她跟我們說要找
贊助的唯一方法就是讓那些潛在贊助商知道我們。所以Alicia、Puzzle、Ryung、Ganzi
和我都簽了，我們裡面有人甚至簽約前完全沒看過合約內容，因為我們完全相信包嫂。

TIG: what was the incident involving manager J?

TIG:可以說說J經裡的事嗎。

Mma: I think there needs to be an explanation about manager J. manager J was
an employee of corporation R, who were sponsors of Slayers. At first, he
dropped by the team house to say hello now and then, but his visits increased
in frequency and the guys at the team house got friendly with him. He was
similar to us in age and was pretty easy to talk to, so he was popular with
the younger guys as well. Boxer liked soccer so we played it a lot within the
team. Manager J started playing with us after a while and he was pretty good,
so he was our team’s ace (for soccer). When we bought soccer jerseys as a
team, we even bought one for him as well.

MMA:我想大家需要先認識J經理這個人，首先呢，他是贊助我們的R贊助商的員工。
他一開始就跑來我們戰隊跟大家say hello，但後來他越來越常出現所以大家後來
跟他越來越熟悉。他的年紀跟我們很像所以話題也接近些，所以他在年輕選手的圈子
很受歡迎。包哥喜歡足球，所以我們常長踢足球，J經理也會跟我們一起踢並且踢得
非常好。他其實是我們隊上足球的王牌，當我們戰隊要買足球隊衣時我們甚至
幫他買了一件。

But a few months later, manager J left his company. Since he was jobless, he
came to our team house more often and Jessica saw fit to give him access to
the team’s facebook and twitter account since he was fluent in English and
german. He had a charming personality, so after time he eventually became in
charge of the foreign business, which was previously Cella’s work.

但幾個月之後，J經理離開了他原本的公司，因為他沒工作了所以他跑來我們宿舍
問包嫂可不可以給他個工作，包嫂看中他的英文和德文能力就要求他幫戰隊管理FB和
twitter。他的個性很迷人，所以不久後他就負責了整個戰隊的國外的事情，這以前是
Cella負責的。

At the same time, Jessica said not to worry or even to ask about the
sponsors. We were contracted with corporation R at the time when we got to
know manager J, so jessica’s statement of the 2 month thing is wrong (not
sure what he’s referring to here). The incident started at this time.

同時，包嫂說現在還不需要著急贊助的事。我們簽約的內容顯示R贊助商有贊助
我們，所以我們認識J經理，所以包嫂兩個月前說的話是錯的(這裡不知道他在說甚麼)
依竊就從這裡開始。

TIG: could you explain more about this incident

TIG:你可以再詳細說一下嗎

Mma: it was right before my code s match versus alive (feb, 15th, 2012). I
heard something shocking from manager J that Jessica was forwarding my
potential personal sponsor to boxer. I couldn’t believe it. I got confused
but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks
afterwards

MMA:那是在2/15/2012 我在準備code s對alive的時候，我從J經裡那邊聽到了
一些很震驚的事情 -- 包嫂打算侵佔贊助商的贊助金。我完全無法相信，但我不知道
要怎麼找誰聊這個。那之後我整個心境都很亂。

After much turmoil, I confessed to crank about my feelings. We talked a lot.
Crank was also sad because he couldn’t do anything for me, so it was hard on
him as well. As this went on, I got more stressed and even thought of
quitting the game. If I said this to Jessica, I thought manager J would get
the blame too so I did not talk.

在一陣混亂後，我跟Crank聊了我的心情。我們聊了很多，Crank也表示很難過因為
他無法幫助我，他其實也很為難。後來我的壓力越來越大，甚至想要放棄選手生涯。
我認為如果我跟包嫂說這件事，那J經理會因為這樣被抓出去鞭，所以我沒有說。

After, my performance fell and I just focused on the game more since there
was nothing I could do about it. Crank suggested that I go talk to boxer as
he would know more from a player’s viewpoint. So I talked to boxer. Boxer
knew this was dangerous waters so he checked around for a few days and told
me that there was nothing of that nature (potential personal sponsor) going
on.

後來我的表現越來越差，我只能專注在遊戲上。Crank建議我找包哥聊聊，也許包哥
會開導我些甚麼。所以我去找了包哥，包哥知道這是要謹慎處理的事，所以他思考了
好幾天，後來才跟我說目前並沒有任何潛在贊助商打算贊助我們。

Jessica did not release any details about our sponsors so I had no choice but
to trust manager J regarding this matter because he was a former employee of
corporation R. at the same time, I lost faith in Jessica because of how she
treated the players and the arguments she picked with other players (on other
teams).

包艘沒有對贊助商的事做任何說明，所以我沒辦法只好相信J經理，畢竟他以前是R贊助
商的員工。同時，因為包嫂對隊員的態度，和她老是喜歡找別隊的人吵架，也讓我
越來越不相信她。

As the manager J incident was wrapping up, boxer and Jessica gathered all the
players and said ‘if there is anything we did wrong, it was letting manager
J come into the team house, so let’s try harder and get the team house
atmosphere up again’. However, it was already too late. There was no way to
turn back the situation because the players were already too deeply wounded.

當J經裡的事越演越烈時，包嫂跟包哥把大家招集起來說他們做的唯一錯事就是
讓J經理加入這個戰隊，所以希望大家可以好好整理心情讓戰隊宿舍恢復以往的樣子跟
氣氛。但是，這已經太晚了。我們已經回不去了。

In this environment, I lived at the team house for a few months. Crank saw
the seriousness of this situation and appealed individually to boxer and
Jessica, but nothing changed. In contrast, Jessica was saying things like ‘
the team is like this because of mma’ and pointing the blame towards me.
Then the contract annulment thing blew up.

在這種環境下，我在宿舍待了好幾個月，Crank看出來這整件事不單純。
包嫂把這些事都形容成是我的錯。然後我們合約上的東西都失效了。

TIG: by contract annulment, you mean the contract between the team and
players?

TIG:合約失效?你是說你跟隊上的合約?

Mma: yes, Jessica said in her interview that there was no splitting of the
prizes from individual events but told us to split the money because of ‘
coach ryu’s wages and player maintenance funds’ at the time, cella received
some portion of player’s foreign prize winnings (less than ~$1000 USD).
Jessica said to give a portion of the winnings from foreign events. So as
agreed on the contract, we sent a portion of the winnings to an account
Jessica provided. After this, nothing changed still.

MMA:對，包嫂在她的聲明說她們從來沒有從我們的個人獎金拿取一部分，但他其實
有叫我們分一點錢，用的理由是當作coach ryu的薪水和一些維護戰隊的資金。
同時，Cella也從隊員們在國外的獎金拿了一部分。(大約1000鎂)
包嫂要求我們繳出國外比賽的部分獎金，我知道這是合約上規定的，我們也按照包嫂
的指示把錢匯進某個帳戶。

Boxer and Jessica almost never came to the practice room and we were managed
by the coaches only. We still had to take public transportation to get to and
from the venues and the team house. Even in the winter, we had to commute
between gimpo and mokdong (about 50~85min by bus/subway) and we realized that
this affected our conditions for the matches that we had to play that day.
After discussing this with the players, we also noticed that there were no
differences between the contracted players and the non-contract players and
came to a conclusion that this would not be good for the team, so we decided
to bring up the issue to boxer and Jessica.

包嫂跟包哥幾乎不來練習室，只有教練在那邊管我們。我們甚至連從集合地到宿舍都
需要搭大眾交通工具。在冬天時，我們需要花50~85分鐘的時間往返(這裡英文怪怪的)
那時我們發現，如果有比賽的狀況還要花這些時間，這開始會影響到我們了。
我們也發現所謂合約選手和非合約選手簡直沒有任何差別，我們都認為這樣對
戰隊不是好事，所以我們打算要提出這件事。

The reply that came back was ‘we cant give the car to cella’ and ‘coach
ryu has no license, so he can’t drive at all’. Crank couldn’t stand this,
so he volunteered to drive and drove the players to the gomtv studios. Crank
was part of the motorized military before, so he had plenty of driving
experience.

我們得到的答案是，"我們不能給Cella一部車" "Coach ryu沒有駕照，所以他不能
開車"。Crank為了我們他自願開車載我們每個選手去gomtv的比賽室。
他以前在軍隊室在發動隊的，他有很充足的開車經驗。

There was no change and the players’ discontent grew. I asked coach ryu if
he had received any wages and he told me that he did not receive anything
until February of 2012. Furthermore, when cella accompanied me to mlg in the
states, he had to pay for the roaming charges on his cell phone even though
Jessica promised to pay for it. Coach ryu asked Jessica about the promised
wages and was told that ‘we don’t collect money from the players, you go
collect it for yourself’.

但環境還是沒有改變，大家的不信任感也越來越高。我問Coach ryu他有沒有薪水
可以領，他說他在2月以前是沒有薪水的。此外，當Cella陪我去MLG的比賽時，
他需要自己付他手機國際漫遊的錢，而這原本是包嫂答應要幫他付的。
Coach RYU跟包嫂說他希望可以有穩定的薪水，包嫂卻回他說他們沒有跟選手拿錢，
你想要錢的話自己去跟選手收。

About an hour after Jessica told ryu the aforementioned statement, she called
me and crank to her house. Boxer and Jessica told me everything and me and
crank talked of the discontent that we had. At the end, Jessica said that ‘
lets nullify the contract right now’ and asked if we wanted to rip our
contracts, but I didn’t want to. We were returned the money that we paid
after a week.

在包嫂跟RYU談了一陣子後，她叫我跟Crank去她家找她。包哥跟包嫂跟我們攤牌了，
我跟Crank也說了大家對目前的狀況很不滿。最後，包嫂說那我們來中止合約吧。
她甚至我們要不要親手把合約撕掉，我們並不想。一個禮拜後我們收到了我們以前
付的錢。

TIG: this contrasts with jessica’s statement that a contract was remaining.
When did you verify this?

TIG:這個合約包嫂說它還是有效的啊，你有做確認嗎?

Mma: we trusted Jessica. But this was our mistake. After Jessica said ‘lets
rip the contracts’, she gathered all the players and said ‘I wont hold you
back if you want to leave the team’.

MMA:我們都相信包嫂，當時沒有一起把合約撕掉是我的錯。她當時跟每個隊員說
不會阻止我們去別的戰隊。

At this time, the players that wanted to go to a foreign team (ganzi, taeja)
had their contracts nullified. After a few days, we asked if the contract was
really nullified. However, Jessica said that the contract was only nullified
for those that wanted to leave the team on that day only. After hearing this,
the players were very disappointed at Jessica and I was hurt by jessica’s
duplicity.
*note by editor here says taeja was not in a contract with slayers.

那時候(Ganzi、Taeja)他們都想去國外戰隊，也都中止了合約。過幾天後我去問
包嫂合約真的中止了嗎，但包嫂卻說只有那天那幾個想離開戰隊的人的合約有中止。
我感到非常失望和難過，因為她欺騙了我。
*Taeja跟Slayers是沒有合約的。

TIG: do you have anything to say about your relegation to B-team in july?

TIG:你要說說七月被降到二軍的事嗎

Mma: it was right before the GSTL match. After the aforementioned events, I
needed to clear my mind so I went out on Saturday. I cleared my mind and
returned. the game was coming up, so the only thing I was thinking was about
winning. Jessica stated that I did not return to the team house, but this is
false. I did all my tasks, then left on Saturday night and returned on Sunday
morning.

MMA:那是在GSTL的比賽前，在剛剛提到那些事情發生後，我需要好好靜下來調整心情。
所以我星期六出去散心，我整理好心情後就回來了。比賽就快到了，我只想要表現得
一些。但包嫂卻開始說我擅自離開宿舍，但這是不對的，我把我該做的都做了然後
才在星期六晚上離開宿舍並且在星期天早上回來。

After returning, ryung told me what boxer said: ‘mma is like a cancer cell,
so I have to quarantine you from him’. After hearing this, I lost all
passion for preparing for the GSTL and the team. The thought that ran through
my mind was ‘im trying so hard for my team, but this is what they think of me
’ and I despaired.

回來後， Ryung跟我說包哥把我形容成像隊伍的癌症細胞一樣，所以包哥希望Ryung
可以離我遠一點。聽到這後，我完全不想準備GSTL了，我這麼努力為隊伍做準備
但你們就是這麼回報我的。

TIG: what kind of communication went between you and boxer?

TIG:你跟包哥之間有做溝通嗎?是怎樣的溝通?

Mma: boxer told me that I was relegated to the b-team so I should go home. I
wondered why I got relegated and did not understand. I wish boxer and Jessica
would have told me what I did wrong, but there was no communication between
us and I was relegated.

MMA:包哥跟我說我被降到二軍所以該回家，我不懂為什麼我要被降到二軍。
我希望包哥和包嫂可以跟我說我哪裡錯了，但我們之間沒有好好談過我就被降到二軍了。

After hearing this from ryung, I packed my bags and told boxer ‘im leaving
so you don’t need to relegate me’. Boxer said that I was under a contract
so I couldn’t leave on my free will. This made my emotions run high and I
told him that this is a slavery contract.

在聽到Ryung這些話後，我開始打包並且告訴包哥，我要離開這裡了，所以你不需要
把我將到二軍。包哥卻回答我還有合約在身所以我不能自由的離開戰隊。這讓我超級
不爽，我就很憤怒的說這根本是奴隸契約。

About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract
between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and
me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament
winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do
things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article
regarding relegation came out.

對於這件事，我感到很抱歉。這份契約是我跟管理者之間的，而不是我跟戰隊的立場
簽的。所以即使我被降到二軍，我還是需要繳出我獲得的獎金的一部分。我跟包哥
花了大概十分鐘談這些事，包哥說我們有自己的一套辦法，就結束了。
隔天，就有份聲明說我被降到二軍了。

TIG: after the article came out, Jessica came to the interview for code a
(july 25th)

TIG:在這消息出來後，包嫂為code a做了一個專訪。

Mma: I met with Jessica and asked ‘how could you write an article like this’
. i asked ‘did I even ask for a transfer to a foreign team?’ and the reply
that came back was ‘I’ll rewrite the article if you want’. I was
flabbergasted. She then explained me the terms of the ‘slavery contract’. ‘
this is nothing. In the entertainment industry, the standard for a contract
is 5 or 10 years’

MMA:我去找包嫂並問他怎麼可以放這樣的消息出去。我問 "我有說過我想要轉到
國外戰隊嗎?" 包嫂回答我說她會重新發一份聲明稿出去。她還跟我說在演藝圈
這種合約的標準是5~10年，要我不要對這太在意。

I wondered the relevance of bringing up terms of contracts in the
entertainment industry. After, Jessica said that she will not receive any
statements about the relegation and cut off questions from reporters. So the
interview went out, but it was only about the game itself. I had a little bit
to say at the end about my current situation and feelings to the fans.

我不懂她把演藝圈的標準帶到我們隊上幹嘛。後來包嫂說她不會再針對我的事情
跟媒體做任何回應。所以她出來專訪只有針對隊伍的比賽。

TIG: you told Jessica you wanted to leave twice

TIG:你兩次跟包嫂說你想要離開隊伍?

Mma: yes, that’s right. The first time was when everyone at the team house
was having a hard time because of the incident with manager J and I could not
stand the management badmouthing me so I did not want to be a part of the
team anymore. However there were those that helped me out a lot before and I
was thankful, so I did not tell them of the current events (I think he’s
referring to manager/coaches of other teams). instead, I said I wanted a
transfer to a foreign team. Shortly afterwards, talks began with slayers and
a foreign team (TL). During this, a lot of facts were hidden from me (by
Jessica) so my mistrust grew even more. So I said I wanted to leave the team
for a second time

MMA:是的，第一次是J經理事件。當時我無法忍受戰隊裡面的氣氛和狀況，但畢竟
這個戰隊幫助了我很多，所以我沒有跟外面的人說Slayers裡的事。後來我要求
轉到國外戰隊，不久就有TL的消息，這件事包嫂對我隱瞞了很多，所以越來越
不相信包嫂，也第二次的想要離隊。

TIG: Jessica said that when you went to foreign events, no one (other
Koreans) said hello to you and ostracized you while badmouthing Jessica. Is
this true?

TIG:包嫂說你去參加國外比賽時，沒有人(其他韓國人)跟你打招呼，並且都在說你
和包嫂的壞話，也抵制了你。這是真的嗎?

Mma: I went to more foreign events than any other members of my team. So I
was able to hear bad rumors of Jessica from other people. Although I heard
these, I respected her so I was very objective about them. I told Jessica of
these, and Jessica said wistfully that she would like to become friendly with
other teams as well.

MMA:我是我們隊上去國外比賽最多的選手。所以我聽到了很多別人說包嫂的謠言。
但雖然我聽到這些，我還是很尊重包嫂，所以我根本不甩他們。
我也跟包嫂說了這些事，包嫂說她會盡量跟其他戰隊維持好關係。

Even after this, there was no change and Jessica even said ‘this is how we
don’t get ignored by other teams’. I said that there were other methods of
going about this and she said that ‘you have to be vocal to be heard’.
Afterwards, I did not tell Jessica what other people thought of her.

但這並沒有任何改變，包嫂後來甚至說"這是讓其他戰隊不能忽視我們的方法"。
我說一定有別的方法，她卻說"想要讓人家聽到你，你就一定要大聲點"
總之，我並沒有跟包嫂說大家對她的看法。

TIG: can you tell us of hidden facts regarding the transfer

TIG:你可以詳細說轉對的事情嗎?

Mma: afterwards, I was able to find out about the trade negotiations. An
incredibly large sum of money was demanded for me even though I had 3 months
left on my contract. The talks broke down. This was because of the absurd
transfer fee and other inquiries were made to teams that I didn’t even want
to go to.

MMA:我後來終於知到了真相，那時包嫂要求了一筆誇張大的轉會費，那時我跟
Slayers的合約只剩三個月而已。所以談判破裂了。但這些要求跟轉會費
都不是我要求的。

After a month, I was able to verify that in some negotiations, my transfer
fee was zero. This change in behavior in Jessica is what ultimately made
boxer move to SKT1.

一個月後，那時我可以自己參加這些協商，我的轉會費變成了0。
因為包哥去了SKT1後，所以包嫂才會改變。

TIG: in april, boxer stated that he stopped playing because of the players.
What do you think of this statement

TIG:四月時，包哥說他為了其他選手所以他暫停選手生涯。
你有甚麼看法嗎?

Mma: I think the biggest reason why boxer stopped playing is because of
jessica’s constant interference in and out of the game. Boxer likes to focus
and practice. Although he gets angry after a loss, he endures it and
continues playing. In situations like this, calls kept coming about
unimportant stuff and he sometimes complained that he couldn’t practice
because of Jessica.

MMA:最大的原因應該是包嫂的影響，包哥很專心準備練習。即使他會在輸了後不爽，
但他會忍住這些情緒並且繼續練習。但在這個階段，他常常接到一些很不重要的電話
來打亂他的練習。他甚至抱怨過因為包嫂他很難可以好好練習。

Because of this, the atmosphere in the team house fell. Jessica likes to read
various community sites and berated boxer by saying things like ‘why did you
do this’, ‘why didn’t you use this strategy’. Overall, the meddling was
pretty severe.
Boxer sometimes said that he wanted to quit gaming because of all the
meddling. Because of this, boxer and Jessica argued a lot. During this time
period, an article was published saying that boxer’s shoulder conditions
were not good. Although his shoulders were not very good from previous times,
I think the main reason for boxer’s quitting as a player is because of
Jessica.

因為這樣，對五的氣氛變得很差。包嫂很喜歡看一些論壇的消息，然後常常像這樣
斥責包哥 "你怎麼可以這麼做，你怎麼不這樣做"。總之氣氛很差，干擾的很嚴重。
包哥甚至提過這種干擾讓他想要放棄當一個選手。
後來就有篇報導出來說包哥因為肩膀的傷勢所以暫停比賽。
雖然以前他的肩膀就不太好，但我認為主要原因還是包嫂。

From a player’s perspective, the interview with Jessica about the team’s
disbanding seems to be directed wholly at the players. She fails to
acknowledge that she had faults with her managerial skills and tries to blame
all of it on us. Therefore, boxer did not lose his will to play because of us.

從一個選手的角度，包嫂似乎把解散戰隊的過錯都推到選手身上。她不肯承認
自己的錯，和她的管理方式錯誤。

TIG: Jessica said that mma has no desire to move to a kespa team or play in
proleague

TIG:包嫂說你表示不會加入Kespa的戰隊或是打職業聯盟(???)

Mma: when I was doing well, Jessica said that when slayers could negotiate
with kespa teams in the future, she would sell me to SKT1 for a large amount
of money. She said that skt1 is the best terran team and wished that I would
do better than fantasy (when he transfers).

MMA:當我表現得很好的時候，包嫂說她以後會跟kespa的隊伍談談，她會把我賣到
SKT1來賺取很大的一筆錢，她說SKT1是人族最好的戰隊，也希望我以後可以大放光彩。

Before I started playing sc2, I was a practice student in skt1. I was in poor
health there. When I played more than 25 games a day, my index finger would
start to get paralyzed and my whole hand would hurt. So I only played about
20 games and I spent the rest of the time watching replays and VODS, as well
as researching. Back then, the proleague system was a place where I couldn’t
do well physically. Somehow, this statement got blown out of proportion and I
do not understand this.

在我開始打SC2之前，我是skt1的練習生。我那時健康狀況很差，當我一天打超過25場
的時候我的食指就會開始麻痺，整隻手也會開始痛。所以我一天大概只打20場。
我把其他時間拿來看RP跟VOD，嘗試做一些研究。在那之後，我沒有辦法
適應職業聯盟的方式。

TIG: anything else you want to say?

TIG:還有甚麼想說的嗎?

Mma: I want to thank boxer and Jessica for making me a famous player as well
as giving me an opportunity in slayers. However, the events that occurred up
until now have affected the team in a very bad way and I have also gotten
hurt. I want to apologize to boxer and Jessica about these events.

MMA:我還是要感謝包哥和包嫂讓我變成一位知名選手，也給了我機會到Slayers。
但現在這些事都嚴重傷害了這個戰隊和我。我想要跟他們說聲抱歉惹了這麼多麻煩。

However, I want to state that jessica’s interview in many ways were
distorted and a lot of players received unnecessary blame for it. That’s why
they agreed to interviews. I apologize for making the fans worry so much. I
would also like to apologize for any wrongdoings done by the plays, on behalf
of the players. Again, I am very sorry.

最後，我還是想要說一下，包嫂的專訪太偏頗了，有很多人都是無辜被拉下水。
所以他們都跳出來澄清。對於我的粉絲們我很抱歉我讓妳們擔心了，我還要跟
那些因為這件事被影響的選手們抱歉。真的，很抱歉。


--
→ AbianMa19:維修太imba了...                                       10/20 15:19
→ AbianMa19:這版本來就已經是三族最接近的一次了 還在戰imba太外行   10/20 15:38
→ AbianMa19:本來就是誰強誰晉級 這版本已經是空前平衡 還在戰imba的  10/20 15:42
→ AbianMa19:根本外行                                              10/20 15:42
#1GWczMQH
                          你，今天外行了嗎?

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) 
◆ From: 122.118.28.12
推 OnlyTD:翻譯先推!
推 GUYDA:幫推一下 再看一次 更感覺MMA說法站不太住腳
推 sezna:他們都跳出來 won<-被A爆 Alicia<-被A穿  剩MMA和Crank
→ GUYDA:這一波自由混戰 包嫂目前還是掌控了整個局面
推 capssan:失望的很好笑 包嫂都給你機會解約你不到 那當然續約阿= =
推 Adonisy:包嫂強勢這點是沒問題的，但前提是她站的住腳這點
→ sezna:太甲和Ganzi看起來智商比MMA高
推 Taeja:轉隊費給我好了 科科
推 kira925:太假沒有任何跟Slayers的契約關係 實際上連Crank都沒有
推 a8330028:會嗎? 我覺得態勢越來越往選手方便傾斜了~
→ kira925:而且約還是簽給jessica/Boxer 不是簽給Slayers
推 foda:包嫂哪裡站得住腳 明明就推得一干2進
→ a8330028:Crank是個跟事情無關的好人大概是確定的 J也是包哥他們
→ foda:很多事情都沒搞清楚就炮別人 有點恰
推 sakubo:辛苦推
→ kira925:另外包嫂放出來的錄音檔....其實跟Crank聲明講的根本一樣
推 saba1414:事實的真相就是包嫂作風太強硬,合法不合情理..誰受的了
推 OnlyTD:錄音檔出爐啦?!
→ OnlyTD:SABA中肯
→ a8330028:自己找來的 第三合約確實有問題且包嫂至今沒說明
→ OnlyTD:J是包哥他們自己找來的  但隊員..恩...智商嘛...
推 GUYDA:選手的聲明只是讓大家同情選手的處境 並不會影響事實
→ foda:包嫂說隊員偷懶 隊員因為薪水想轉外國戰隊 你覺得包嫂對嗎??
→ guest001:那些路上騙人買超貴的百科全書的人也是合法啊XDDDD
→ kira925:目前只看到Crank跟Jessica對談的部分 那部份跟Crank說的
→ kira925:是一樣的內容
→ KaoDarly:寧願選擇相信J說的話,才會發生這些事情代表mma在j加入之
→ GUYDA:事實還是 J內奸(包嫂沒說錯) ESF抵制(包嫂沒說錯)
推 yogoyogo2006:隊員才幾歲  能有多少智商
→ kira925:英文只有這部分 跟Boxer的部分我還沒看到英文翻譯
→ guest001:我笑了，護航怪到隊員智商上去XD
→ KaoDarly:前就已經對包嫂不爽了,不然怎麼可能只因為包嫂不說明贊助
→ saba1414:而且大家是衝著老包加入的...老包卻顯然管理很消及
→ GUYDA:那是看法阿 選手說有認真 包嫂說你不像包哥一樣認真
→ KaoDarly:就選擇去相信J這個加入兩個月的外人
→ a8330028:再來包嫂影響了戰隊所有運作 從經營練習甚至於戰術打法
→ GUYDA:你要說誰看法錯? MMA也說了 他是給另一種說法 不是來否認包
→ saba1414:如果包嫂的管理風格給老包..說不定大家都很信服
推 waiting0801:簽名檔XDDDDD
→ kira925:TL有一個人說他後來有看到包嫂承認了MMA轉隊費的事情
推 OnlyTD:不想找包嫂  MMA聽Crank的建議去找包哥 自己又不太確認
→ kira925:但是目前沒有詳細翻譯出來 持保留態度
→ OnlyTD:所以去聽了J經理  這種因素會是包嫂的問題@Q@?
→ a8330028:只能說包哥是星海界的神 包嫂不是
→ Aggro:包哥自己也要練習 不管事也可以理解 至於干預這是小倆口的事
→ OnlyTD:這聲明就是隊員方的角度去討論包嫂聲明中的幾個要項
→ guest001:一定中間還有事情嘛XD要護航也不用急著扯別人的智商
→ Aggro:這其實沒啥好責怪的 包哥包嫂從以前來看就是這樣
→ OnlyTD:ace和won都可以提智商了   MMA為什麼不能提xD
推 foda:你敢保證自己智商比MMA高??
推 sezna:是說跟昨天最後一場的MMA比嗎XD
→ OnlyTD:誤信流言的事情  責任歸咎要講是經營者沒先跟你說
推 yogoyogo2006:詐騙那麼多 真的很難講
→ GUYDA:我們都不感 不過肯定MMA社會智商幾乎接近0.. 不懂人心險惡
→ a8330028:裡面也寫了J雖然只加入2個月 但實際上已經認識一段日子
→ guest001:是不是流言還不知道勒
→ OnlyTD:還是你沒有把聽來的話反應給經營者?  最後錯信才ry?
→ Aggro:這不是智商問題 是社會歷練問題
→ guest001:反正險惡的絕對不是包嫂就是對吧
→ OnlyTD:我怎麼敢保證我智商比MMA高?  包哥認定的人耶=_=  我只是ob
推 Flyingheart:MMA如果願意多撐一下 等到SKT1來買他 他會是贏家的
→ GUYDA:這種事情對年輕的選手本來就沒啥辦法...
→ a8330028:J又是包哥包嫂自己找來的 MMA等人相信他 無可厚非
→ kira925:他根本就不想回KeSPA
→ KaoDarly:MMA說他不想回去skt1,練習量太大 他身體扛不住
→ Flyingheart:可惜他聽了Crank的話 Crank的實力SKT根本不會買
→ GUYDA:guest001就是來黑包嫂的嗎?  你要黑要拿出立論點
→ a8330028:資訊不透明 溝通不良 選擇相信願意跟你對話的人很合理
→ OnlyTD:包嫂自己的情緒化問題.不妥當的管理方式 大家都看的出來
→ OnlyTD:但你要黑包嫂說他險惡  這點MMA.Alicia都不敢講了= =
推 s8923135:不管怎麼J說啥話 不先去跟經營者對質 先相信就很奇怪
→ FANggot:溝通不良,管理不當,結果被怪到選手身上也有點問題...
→ GUYDA:包嫂管理有問題  大家看的出來 說道人心險惡 這要更多解釋
→ Aggro:幾乎所有回應都只能從情感和情緒下手 沒人敢正面說錯阿
→ OnlyTD:上篇推文有說啦  包嫂自己的方式有很大的問題
→ a8330028:自己引狼入室 怎麼能怪選手......
→ OnlyTD:但你要說他險惡?  沒有證據能指出啊...
→ OnlyTD:包嫂不能怪選手  但選手也沒資格說包嫂  這兩邊都有問題
→ guest001:有人都可以講隊員智商有問題了
→ OnlyTD:都是錯信來人  一邊信他可以管好 一邊信他流言蜚語
→ guest001:還是只能說隊員智商問題不能說包嫂險惡？
→ GUYDA:社會智商=/=IQ  你不需要抓這點來跳針
→ guest001:看到現在是不是錯信還不知道喔。包嫂也不敢把J經理那段
→ OnlyTD:我提到MMA的社會智商不足  沒有經驗才會先誤信而沒溝通
→ guest001:講清楚
→ OnlyTD:有事實去建立  你講險惡呢?
→ GUYDA:事實最後就是MMA被內奸J欺騙了 也破壞了兩邊互信的基礎
→ OnlyTD:MMA都認為自己誤信了  你是在險惡什麼啦(咦XD?
推 a524528:現在看來，在J之前兩邊的問題就大了，J只是顯示出問題
推 olikeblueo:感覺兩邊都有錯，但包嫂的發言永遠說錯的是別人，而除
→ guest001:哪段講誤信了？
→ GUYDA:靠 跟你回話浪費時間  我忽略好了
→ olikeblueo:包嫂外的人，每個人都有道歉，所以包嫂贏了？
推 foda:那只是代表包嫂感覺良好
推 a8330028:老實說 包哥不要再躲了 還是出來面對 別都丟給女人
→ Aggro:如果依照目前內容來看 包哥又不管事..XD 出來好像也..
推 sezna:大家都說包哥沒管事了 連MMA都不敢惹包哥
推 foda:包哥是偶像 不能隨便加入這種等級的亂戰的
推 olikeblueo:但說實話，包嫂的這種個性會讓人害怕，有這種性格的老
→ olikeblueo:我也會想趕快離職，雖然出事總認為是員工的錯的老闆，
→ olikeblueo:實在太多太多了..
→ LOKI930351:不是沒道歉的人就贏了，贏了面子輸了理子
→ LOKI930351:蠢女人，BJ4
→ capssan:反正他現在也不用理子了 又沒戰隊 她要理子幹麻
推 OnlyTD:都要Quit了  要理子做啥  從開始就是要一波打死兩邊了
推 sezna:不玩的最可怕 他又不做戰隊了
→ momogo11:恩 我只想知道有沒有污贊助費
推 OnlyTD:贊助費有沒有汙  包哥說法是沒有   另外兩篇對轉隊翻譯不同
→ OnlyTD:有沒有韓文熟悉者可以詳細一下?
推 olikeblueo:就因為S解散，包嫂不要裡子，就這樣大書特書隊員，這
→ olikeblueo:包嫂的這種個性，絕不會是在S解散後才突然冒出的，平
→ olikeblueo:常與隊員相處，或管理隊務，若也是這種個性，我想我
→ olikeblueo:個人是受不了，更何況要去信任此種個性的老闆..
→ guest001:包嫂這種個性當老闆根本就是大災難
推 a5480277:奇怪耶 開頭就講為了避免包哥以後被砲了
→ a5480277:講得都是老闆的責任
→ guest001:戰隊搞成這樣本來就是老闆的責任最大
→ a5480277:所以隊員就沒有責任?
→ a5480277:講真的 老闆錯誤聘用一個j經理 這種事當然先怪老闆
→ a5480277:但不代表後面隊員的問題就能被合理化
→ a5480277:比較好奇隊上的溝通情況~阿是都悶在心裡不講喔
→ j9145:等等，所以MMA寧願相信一個沒了工作不找本行，而跑來找SC戰
→ j9145:隊找工作的外人，而不相信包歌包嫂!?
→ capssan:所以說他智商__啊 呵呵
推 olikeblueo:^^""不好意思，純粹個人對這樣事就是這樣看的，他們
推 Aggro:有些鄉民也是對八卦板深信不疑阿 不難理解吧
→ Aggro:或多或少大家都會有這種情況
→ OnlyTD:ManJ 看說法是沒工作後包嫂找來的 沒提到是他主動入行
→ olikeblueo:他們之間誰對誰錯，或錯多錯少，與我無關，也不在乎，
→ allqwdd:J經理是自己跑去跟包嫂要個工作的
→ olikeblueo:但這個事件中，讓我想到的就是戰隊經營者(老闆)跟隊員
→ olikeblueo:(員工)間的可能問題，所以就此說了一點看法..
→ allqwdd:喔喔 我看錯了 是他很常去Slayers 包嫂覺得他適合 主動給
→ allqwdd:他工作
推 Adonisy:包嫂不回應說心理有鬼，回應太快說太愛和鄉民戰，哪招？
→ allqwdd:但好幾個人提到包嫂愛跟別的戰隊的人戰  可能真的有點
→ allqwdd:不能忍受委屈的個性 以前的我在PTT也會這樣 XDD
推 Arnol:傲骨XD
→ allqwdd:我天梯近十場 1W9L 怎麼辦阿糯
推 Arnol:0.0 所以我昨天只有看到贏的那場嗎 XD
→ allqwdd:對
推 Arnol:太悲催了 有找到輸的原因嗎XD
→ allqwdd:PZIMBA
→ allqwdd:xdddd
→ Arnol:可是同階PZ操作很菜的 XD
→ allqwdd:感覺不順的時候越打輸越多 可能休息一兩天再打好了
→ Arnol:嗯嗯! 補兵要補快點嘿XD
→ Arnol:不過你操作真心好~
推 strike519:包嫂侵占贊助金?  MMA這白癡竟然會被這種事動搖
推 gargoyles:她甚至問我們要不要親手把顯卡撕掉
推 suwilliam:包嫂說的是沒拿她自己跟包哥的份吧?
推 capssan:我覺得分部份出來給戰隊沒問題啊= = 包嫂包哥自己份都分
→ capssan:掉了