Fw: [新聞] Steam正在禁止有著太年輕角色的色情遊戲

[wizardfizban (瘋法師)]

Steam Is Banning Sex Games With Young-Looking Characters
https://tinyurl.com/ybh4zgyo

These days, anything goes on Steam, but not anything anything. If games are “
illegal, or straight up trolling,” Valve says it’ll send them packing. In
the past, that’s meant low-effort games with titles like Big Dick and MILF,
achievement spam, and certain sex games.

Now, according to some developers, Valve is going after games that feature
themes of “child exploitation,” which it seems to define, at least in part,
as games with sex scenes or nudity where the characters are in high school.

Over the past few weeks, the company has removed the store pages of several
visual novels, including cross-dressing yaoi romance Cross Love, catholic
school adult visual novel Hello Goodbye, “story about the love between
siblings” (yuck) Imolicious, and cat girl game MaoMao Discovery Team. The
developers of these games all claim to have received similar emails stating
that their games could not be released on Steam.

“While we can ship most titles on Steam, we found that this one does feature
themes of child exploitation,” read the email received by Top Hat Studios,
makers of Cross Love. “Because of that, the app has been banned and cannot
be reused.”

There are a couple ties that bind the games in question: 1) Cross Love, Hello
Goodbye, and Imolicious feature school settings, and 2) all four of the
aforementioned games contain adult elements and center around anime-styled
characters who appear young—in some cases uncomfortably so. However, their
developers have taken to protesting the bans on social media, saying that
their games have been misunderstood. They all claim they’ve reached out to
Valve since receiving their bans, only to be met with silence.

Cross Love’s developers say they’ve taken great pains to ensure that their
game demonstrates, on multiple occasions, that its students are of age. This
includes scenes where they peruse 18+ manga and are ID-ed before being
allowed into an adult bookstore.

“These scenes aren’t there to be artificially shoehorned in, and while they
do exist as further proof of characters’ ages (beyond the disclaimer in the
beginning that explicitly states them as being 18), the real reason they’re
there is to further many of the themes in the story,” said developer Top Hat
to Kotaku in a Twitter DM, pointing out that it’s tried to contact Valve
with this information six separate times, to no avail. “A large chunk of the
story is about accepting who you are, being comfortable with yourself, and
altogether similar themes within a type of coming of age-style love story,
which isn’t really seen in most yaoi games.”

“While we can ship most titles on Steam, we found that this one does feature
themes of child exploitation.”
Other games are more questionable. Imolicious’ developer claims there aren’
t “any children” in the game, but it revolves around school girls. When I
pointed out that most school girls are, by definition, children, developer
Yume Creations replied in a DM: “High school students aren’t children, they
are teenager[s].” Most teenagers in high school are still minors, so that
rationale doesn’t really hold water. The developer also noted, however, that
“in [the] case of Imolicious, I added a disclaimer that all characters [are]
over 18 like you can see in most visual novels.”

They’re not wrong: This is a trend among visual novels featuring adult
material—and more broadly among “loli” anime, which tends to feature
suspiciously young-looking women who are said to be over 18. But while some
take these declarations at face value, others view them as obvious (and
creepy) fig leaves.

“Having a disclaimer stating that a drawing is of consensual age or not is a
ridiculous thing to rely upon,” said one user in a Steam forum thread
discussing MaoMao Discovery Team’s legality. “At the end of the day, it is
a fictional drawing that does not have an age. If you think they look too
young, then they are too young. A bit of text saying ‘this person is 20'
changes nothing.”

Which brings us to the heart of the matter: It’s Valve’s store, and what it
says goes. If someone at Valve decides characters look too young, then they’
re too young. Top Hat, however, believes there’s a double standard at play
here, not unlike the one some developers felt they’d fallen victim to before
Valve officially allowed uncensored sex games on Steam. Other games that
feature young-looking characters, school settings, and romantic/sexual
themes, like Nekopara Extra, Sakura Sakura, A Piece Of Wish Upon The Stars,
and Material Girl, are all still on Steam, Top Hat pointed out.

Kotaku reached out to Valve to ask about the rationale behind banning certain
games, but has yet to hear back.

Imolicious developer Yume Creations says it’s given up on trying to get the
game on Steam, opting instead to release an uncensored version on internet
hentai capital Fakku. In a Steam post, MaoMao’s developers made it sound
like they, too, are throwing in the towel. But while Top Hat has put Cross
Love up on other stores like Itch.io and Nutaku, it’s still giving Steam the
old hopefully-at-least-college-age try.

“Steam is a major service, and we had hundreds of players looking forward to
buying the game there upon release,” Top Hat said. “The game had wishlists
in the thousands, and the community group had several hundred people in it.
This is a very large userbase to lose out on, and it hurts us pretty bad. It’
s not world ending, but it is quite the end of the year blow.”

====

關鍵字：Child Exploitation 兒童削剝

所以Cross Love、Hello Goodbye、MaoMao Discovery Team這些遊戲才會被刪除頁面。

兒童削剝呀！不意外就是了，這在美國是逆鱗級的議題。

--
      我的故事可不那麼讓人覺得舒服。它不是那種有著甜蜜歡樂情節的幻想小說。
           我的故事充滿了混亂而又難以察覺的陰影，充滿了瘋狂和噩夢，
                    和那些不再自欺欺人地生活的人們一樣。
                                                  ──赫曼‧赫塞──

--
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※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/C_Chat/M.1544231297.A.D9C.html
※ 編輯: wizardfizban (1.165.33.18), 12/08/2018 09:08:37
→ w3160828: 希望不要升級成有日本風格就是兒童
→ w3160828: 對美國人來說，亞洲人就是未成年
這個說白了就是兒童色情問題啦！你不搞色情遊戲就沒差。

美國這個管超嚴，大家都知道。

推 icexfox: 五樓的熟女風格沒這個問題
※ 編輯: wizardfizban (1.165.33.18), 12/08/2018 09:30:55
推 a6021314: 日本不是都是「我看起來很小隻，可是我已經滿18歲了喔」
推 BoXeX: 哀  怪不得日本很多HG公司都在觀望  終究保守才是對的
推 HelmerYang: 年紀24歲　外表6歲
推 ybz612: valve到底是怎樣 瘋狂反覆橫跳耶
→ kenlin96: http://i.imgur.com/Bj6JD2B.jpg
推 a75091500: 因為真的很煩，一下可以一下不行的，審核過了還會被搞
→ a75091500: 。整個就是創作，沒有傷害任何人，然後要被處罰，這真
→ a75091500: 的很過分
推 kabkglomr: 正確呀，支持
→ kabkglomr: 說他成年看起來像兒童的本來就有問題
推 iorittn: 5000歲但外觀像10歲精靈的可以嗎?
噓 Deltak: 勸你別碰我mirror喔
推 iorittn: mirror奶那麼大…怎麼看也不像
→ abc55322: 問題大了，應為他們看日式畫風全都是兒童色情
→ abc55322: 因
推 mamahayai: 一個「說你太年輕就太年輕，大人快禁他」的概念
推 mamahayai: 比起mirror，我更擔心Nekopara就是了...
推 r85270607: 人真的很奇怪 肥宅娶二維老婆我們噓他快醒 不是真的
→ r85270607: 然後又一堆躲舒適圈整天噴二維 這個不行 那個不行
→ r85270607: 不敢處理真實世界同樣發生的議題
推 BoXeX: 終究還是要日本自己搞平台啦  等東澳過去吧  哀
→ r85270607: 認真在二次元打稻草人還覺得自己很有供獻的SJW真虛偽
→ dreamnook: 不太意外就是了
推 scarofwind: valve:我想賺錢但我不想得罪fbi
噓 ILoveElsa: 正確個屌 火車全部給我幹起來
推 rainxo6p: 額 本來就不能違反當地法律吧 不過審核過在取消這對開發
→ rainxo6p: 商很慘就是了
→ tin123210: 禁這個對防止戀童癖有意義嗎，實在很懷疑
→ hacker725x: 一群對二次元角色喊著我老婆的阿宅們對社會是很危險的
推 rainlover: 兒童色情是絕對大忌，這個肯定沒話說
推 kians: 超讚成!!  不過要怎麼認定年輕角色  標準為何是重點
→ kians: 臉跟發育看起來只有國小  結果年齡寫17歲的  這種超該禁
→ kians: 噁心戀童癖不要想在那邊帶風向  趕快去治療
→ freset: 樓上你怎麼看起來這麼了解
推 kians: 沒吃過豬肉也看過豬走路啊
推 hancke: 外表年紀認定標準是什麼？罩杯？身高？三次元都有那種30
→ hancke: 歲看起來想國中生的幼齒臉了
→ spfy: 對啦 玩的遊戲有蘿莉就是變態戀童癖
→ hancke: 每次都說兒童色情是歐美的紅線 問題是怎樣算兒童 都他媽
→ hancke: 西方臭老臉才不算兒童？ 我16歲去美國參加一個營隊 他媽一
→ hancke: 個英國佬15歲長得像30歲 這樣就合法囉？
→ spfy: 全世界玩過遊戲的人口有高達八成都是變態殺人魔 大人快閘他
→ BoXeX: 乾脆禁止所有創作有任何犯法行為好了
推 C00L: 樓上超酸XD
→ C00L: 我說spfy
→ BoXeX: 觀看有殺人的書視同殺人犯
→ MikageSayo: https://i.imgur.com/enPaisp.png
→ playerlin: 講難聽一點，只要沒成年都可能被那些衛道人士視為兒童.
→ playerlin: 永遠都是「大人們」說的算。 *茶*
推 loadingN: 成年的貓可以嗎
→ lovewinter12: 贊，這種遊走邊緣的大多都是糞game
推 katana89: 在美國兒少福利是比憲法還不得了的東西 千萬惹不得
推 NLchu: 不要在那邊紙上談兵......講理論你沒有歐美厲害
→ NLchu: 講那些空談的東西根本沒用，這不是那邊的問題點
→ NLchu: 實際上是，歐美有很多‘非常嚴重’的案子發生過，這迫使
→ NLchu: 他們一定要採取很極端的方式去「做一些事」，這是政治問題
推 NLchu: 各自表述的東西永遠都能換方向講，不要對自己那麼有信心
→ NLchu: 就算沒有二次元實際受害人也要提出實際科學證據才能開啟爭
→ NLchu: 論
→ NLchu: 這是歐美的一貫思維，在那邊嘴巴論證根本自討苦吃
推 cheeseup: steam要做不做都可以，但是不要變來變去
推 hacker725x: 講得那麼厲害就說明一下有什麼科學證據表示二次元阿宅
推 rocku112: 9成吧，打LOL也是反覆在殺人阿
→ hacker725x: 會觸犯兒少法啊，不然光講一堆空話又嫌別人空談。
推 TotalBiscuit: 但是會有人說，兒童色情片的問題是真的有兒童受害，
→ TotalBiscuit: 購買、觀看都助長兒童受害問題。動漫電玩沒有兒童
→ TotalBiscuit: 真的受害
推 NLchu: 你......電腦裡擁有相關資料在哪邊就是犯法了啊
→ Korsechi: 就自助餐 想撈錢又沒不敢審內容 只好轉而審角色外觀
→ NLchu: 在網路上索求邏輯是我的錯
推 TotalBiscuit: 電玩目前就是沒有犯法不是嗎？
→ taiautumn: http://i.imgur.com/nFEjDqh.jpg 巫師3不下架嗎？
推 aaron68032: 說真的亞洲人18歲左右樣貌像是歐美人未成年 歐美無法
→ aaron68032: 體會在這種環境生活的差別
推 r85270607: 歐美SJW無差別套入就是很有問題了
→ r85270607: 寫個18就不是蘿  這種滿槽點玩法誕生起因於誰心裡有數
→ r85270607: 趨嚴跟本不能解決問題
→ r85270607: 在我看來 把問題推給二次元 跟中世紀把問題推給
→ r85270607: 行為怪異的女巫 像極了  說妳是女巫就是女巫 快燒
推 TotalBiscuit: 這邏輯跟每次有人上街亂開槍就拿GTA出來鞭有差別嗎
→ r85270607: 同樣有明确的世俗共識 司法系統 社會偏見 責任推託
→ lpdpCossette: 這沒辦法 唯獨兒色是肯定要迴避的
→ r85270607: 就跟禁酒令白癡清教徒一樣
→ r85270607: 兒色禁止不是隨人說 古典時代孿童常見 要不禁修該歷史
推 asdasd02tw: 其實我覺得明明就未成年蘿莉臉，但是跟你寫30歲那種被
→ asdasd02tw: 禁也是剛好而已
推 r85270607: 有那個端正視聽的心還不如多抓幾個人蛇
→ dreamnook: 人蛇有給錢給幹 虛擬作品沒有 當然要禁止呀(大誤
→ r85270607: 於是問題就兜回了怎麼才算  今天管年齡 明天戰種族
→ r85270607: 後天禁模仿史萊姆  法外規避會一直在  SJW絕不受損
→ r85270607: 真有個金魚佬在我面前我也會爆打他一頓
→ r85270607: 但我不會因為規範無差別套用 誰像就打誰吧
推 cheeseup: 社會正義戰士(SJW)現在臭的要死了，怎麼會沒有受損
→ cheeseup: 真的想要社會正義的人應該都很想哭吧，招牌被一堆白癡拿
→ playerlin: 臭歸臭，他們又沒差。再找下一個target就好。
→ cheeseup: 去路上亂打人，實在是有夠可悲
→ lpdpCossette: steam也作很多努力了, 總沒辦法要G胖拿事業當賭注
→ playerlin: 真的想要的應該也不會在網路上尋求...
→ lpdpCossette: 不少看起來就真的滿幼的遊戲都真的上18+dlc在steam
→ lpdpCossette: 上了 表示steam原本肯定是沒要禁這類
→ lpdpCossette: 總不能真的要G胖拿事業當賭注領導這種抗爭XD
→ playerlin: 兒童色情很多廠商跟平台都自我規制了，沒人敢賭會不會
→ playerlin: 就真的要拿事業甚至自己私人資產來賠了...
推 devilshadow: 以後就變畫個大人說他心智只有國小講話羅莉音
推 TotalBiscuit: 樓上，畫個大人...蘿莉控就不要了啊 XD
推 jim8596: MILF MILF MILF MILF MILF MILF MILF
→ jim8596: 不是16歲適婚年齡嗎 還有童養媳等熟女系列 古人真會玩
→ jim8596: 孫中山:女童賽高
推 silverair: 以後遊戲都弄成這樣就好
→ silverair: https://i.imgur.com/B6omXkA.png
→ silverair: 反正都要裝無碼補丁，乾脆直接在臉上畫皺紋偽裝，然後
→ silverair: 用補丁解掉這樣還能靠北嗎= =
推 AsPerfect: 快笑死哈哈哈哈一堆踩出界線的在那擔心
→ AsPerfect: 硬是要辯, 餒咩凹
推 butten986: 講難聽一點，這年代，蘿莉控想找門路也不可能
→ butten986: 去多抄了幾個黑幫人蛇比較實在，但政府根本不敢真動
推 AsPerfect: 講真實一點，這世代錢說話，有錢權力階級高，所有人
→ AsPerfect: 包含政府都得低頭，那你要怎玩都行，真人死鬥、買處女
→ AsPerfect: 玩蘿莉都行，但對絕大部分的普通人必須用嚴格極端的規
→ AsPerfect: 規章去禁止，去扼殺這種慾望
推 w520670: 再說下去等等估計會有人冒出來說"禁個幼女而已 這也能吵"
→ AsPerfect: 總歸來說，蘿莉Ｈ或是殺人遊戲多多少少有瘋子真的付諸
→ AsPerfect: 實際行為犯案，但是殺成人比較難還是殺/誘拐小朋友難?
→ AsPerfect: 小朋友是拿來保護的
→ nakinight: 本末倒置吧 會誘拐真實女童的還會跑去玩遊戲??
→ nakinight: 假道德一堆 這跟遊戲使人暴力的看法有什麼兩樣
→ AsPerfect: 因為凡事皆有可能，誘拐不玩遊戲有，玩遊戲虛擬滿足不
→ AsPerfect: 了去誘拐也有可能，您說的打殺遊戲後變暴力也有可能
→ AsPerfect: 只是不能因為個案就說整個群體都是不管戀童or打殺
推 hacker725x: 有人說持有就犯法還真幽默，那開發公司早就被抄掉啦XD
推 roea68roea68: 所以歐美就是一邊幹小女孩小男孩 一邊義正嚴詞的
→ roea68roea68: 限制空想創作
→ roea68roea68: 日本就是只敢做遊戲畫漫畫打手槍 強暴小孩這種事
→ roea68roea68: 做不出來 大家都知道喇
推 rainlover: 訂一條線出來對大家都好，我說真的
→ rainlover: 到時被衛道人士來個無限上綱你才痛
推 katana89: 持有就犯法有些地方還真的不是開玩笑 宅宅帶一堆日漫回
→ katana89: 去 被海關直接逮捕已經是好多年前的新聞了
推 ae6892723: 所以要變瓦力了嗎？
→ tindy: 我搜了一下內文中的遊戲,除了貓娘那部像國中生體型
→ tindy: 剩下的都高中生正常人體型阿
→ tindy: 當然也可能是角色很多我沒google到
→ tindy: 不過要酸羅莉控的建議先去查完再來酸
→ tindy: 高中生體型已經是正常人體型了,跟戀童癖差很多好嗎
→ C00L: 社會上一個很簡單的邏輯：
→ C00L: 躲在家裡打電動的 整天被追打
→ C00L: 在路上混幫派的 什麼人包括一堆警察都會躲你躲很遠幾乎可以
→ C00L: 說為所欲為
→ C00L: 所以根本不是對/錯問題
→ C00L: 是好不好欺負的問題
推 cheeseup: 樓上講的不是邏輯而是亂象
→ cheeseup: not cool, bro.
推 FrostGZ: 這社會不就亂象稱王嘛XD
推 freakclaw: Bravo!