Re: [其他] The Essence of Traditional Chinese - …

[nanpyn (Apple)]

※ 引述《SeCrEtX ()》之銘言：
熱血響應～
:     以下是我聽完今天的一堂課後花了將近三小時寫的信, 因為我不認同他將一
可以簡述一下事件原貌嗎
他是怎麼類比的
還有那位教授的專業背景為何？
對方有沒有語言學專長？

:     個簡化的數學模型類比到簡體中文之於繁體中文. 本來想當場反駁的, 但我
:     怕會佔用太多課堂時間所以回家沈澱之後才寫這封信私下給他, 希望他可以
:     抽出時間看. 本就聽說留學生出國或多或少會遇到這種事, 我沒想到自己遇
:     到的時候竟然是如此義憤填膺, 直為繁體中文--我心中的少數正道之一--打
:     抱不平. 如果你是台灣人, 而且英文程度准許的話, 希望你花點時間看看這
:     篇文章並發表一些意見. 謝謝!
:     Professor XXX,
:     Thank you for reading this letter. First of all I want to thank
:     you for giving such a wonderful lecture about the vectors and
:     tensors, it is very informative even for a trained
:     Engineering-major student as me.
:     However, as a student from Taiwan, I, with no offense, have to
:     point out that your metaphor of the Simplified Chinese to the
:     adoption of tensor index notation is not accurate for two reasons:
:     1. Traditional Chinese is a cultural legacy of our 5000-year
:     history, as suggested by its name. It not only represents the
:     creativeness and wisdom of our ancestors, but also serves as an
:     identification of our Chinese spirit and dignity. The entirety and
:      the completeness of every Chinese words individually implies how
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
every Chinese "character"
word 是詞
character 才是漢文字（原本獨體為文 合體為字 但後來無論是獨體或合體都可稱為字）
例如 「中文」是個詞 但「中文」有兩個字

字、詞的意義其實有別
臺灣受誤譯影響而誤用
大多數人誤以為外語跟中文一樣都是以字為單位

但其實字母是符號 拼成單詞才對 而非單字
學過語言學才會發現是不同的

當然 我們也有單字、單音節的詞
但以兩字、雙音節的詞是最多的

:     we live, we work, the angles we look the world, and the evolvement
:      of our history, although sometimes in a very obscure and abstract
:      form. For that reason, people in Taiwan proudly inherit this
:     cultural consciousness from our predecessors, and pass them to our
:      descendants with the same expectation. Simplified Chinese, whom I
:      give my full respect to as a new form (or branch) of Chinese
:     culture, break this continuum and therefore alters the essence of
:     a Chinese word, discontinuously. In the science language, the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chinese characters
:     transition of the spirit of a Traditional Chinese word to a
:     Simplified Chinese word is not an equal sign '=', but an
:     approximate sign '~'. This is not the case in the index notation:
:     they are essentially the same.
:     2. Traditional Chinese is actually a very elegant and beautiful
:     word form, if one knows deep enough. There are certain principles
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
writing system
:     how we create new words, e.g. based on the physical shapes, the
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
new characters and lexicons
造字和構詞的其實意義不同
但我猜你想同時表達兩種

對啊 我們的造字及構詞都可歸納出一些很實用的原則

:     pronunciation, their implication and so forth. With time goes by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
呃 這邊你要不要列出專業術語較能說服對方？

1. 現代的 Mandarin
其書寫系統 (writing system) 由於形聲字比例很高 所以分類屬於 morphosyllabory
2. 其他造字原則（古人所歸納的六書）也有術語
3. 構詞法 (morphology) 各家說法略有歧異 但其中複合式大概可分為六種

:     (hundreds to thousands of years), these words gradually deviate
:     from their original designs, but all of them preserve the basic
:     geometries to some extent. In this sense, the sudden geometrical
:     changes applied on the Simplified Chinese leads to the imprecise,
:     incomplete descriptions of its original form. Some information are
:      lost during the exterior transformation of a word. If a index 'i'
                                                ^^^^^^^^^   ^^^
                                                a character; an index

:      is different from a index 'j' and a gradient is different from a
                       ^^^^^^^^^^
an index

:     divergence, we cannot equal a Simplified Chinese word to its
                                                     ^^^^^^^
character!

:     original Traditional form. It is simply unacceptable.
:     Because the exterior and interior of Simplified Chinese is much
:     different from the Traditional Chinese, the analog is imprecise as
:      an introduction to the function of index notation. I hope to

似乎可以應用用語言學的指涉 reference 來說明
字體的歧異造成本質與指涉改變

:     convince you that it is not only about writing faster, but is
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
建議充實論點如下：

1. 簡化後似乎好寫 但常造成分辨困難
2. 之所以要求學生寫字 是因為邊寫可以邊瞭解結構並從筆畫記憶整體字形
（這有理論）
3. 再者 一般人都是靠打字
所以寫起來快不快已不是重點 打字快即可
相形之下 保留較多差異的繁體（正體字是相對於異體字而言）反而好辨識、好記
4. 簡體字也不見得能消除本國文盲 靠漢語拼音或注音符號的輔助一樣能提升識字率

:     about the cultural difference between Taiwan and the mainland
:     China, and is about the cognitions these two sovereign independent
:      countries made in your mind. Please, forgive my rude to send you
:     such a long letter after your long journey, and correct me if I
:     made any mistakes. Thank you.
:     Sinerely,
:     Jui-Hsien Wang

嗯 互相瞭解知己知彼才有可能贏得對方尊重
你的立意良善 我支持你
但必須把本信的英文修改得很完美 呈現正確的拼字和語法
並以語言學加強說服力
對方看了才會覺得你不只是生氣 而且非常專業

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※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 61.217.161.176
→ nanpyn:補充一下 我們的字很特別 本身就有 morpheme
→ nanpyn:構詞後又能重組 morpheme 這大概能跟詞根、詞首、詞尾類比
→ nanpyn:但有些表聲音的字單獨時只有syllable
→ nanpyn:須構詞後才有morpheme
→ nanpyn:e.g. 葡萄、沙發、轟隆 之類的
推 SeCrEtX:等等, 你太專業了XD  我只是engineering的學生阿XDDDDD
→ SeCrEtX:不過我會注意的下次(信已寄出), 謝謝指教!
推 chieher:推推
推 SeCrEtX:非常受用. 語言學博大精深, 小弟獻醜^n了
→ SeCrEtX:謝謝你幫我挑這麼多文法&字彙錯誤 @@
推 herstein:專業
→ herstein:給推~~~好文!
→ nanpyn:呵 如果那位教授回覆你 你再補充好了XD
→ daltuku:補充關於第四點：後來確實有數據表示簡中沒有降低文盲率XD
推 somnambule:原po沒有說明教授當時類比的經過，讓人很難判斷是非
推 vity:推
→ nanpyn:對呀 識字是認識 跟好不好寫實在無關
→ nanpyn:韓文這麼好寫 但只要稍微有點距離 我就難以辨識
→ nanpyn:文盲問題是因為教育政策 而不是因為字體本身
→ nanpyn:BTW 我覺得韓文很科學 但由於筆畫簡略 放在一起時有點難認
→ nanpyn:要看清楚筆畫往哪個方向才能確認是哪個字
※ 編輯: nanpyn          來自: 59.112.198.194       (10/22 02:38)