Re: [問題] 文法與語氣的關係

[finavir (剛開學就忙到無語問蒼天)]

        If I may, since I can't go straight to bed right after taking
        my meds. (having quite a nasty cold)

※ 引述《Nevolia (Nevolia)》之銘言：
: Thank you all for your replies to my thread. I really appreciate^_^
                                       ^^^^^^                     ^
                                      question                   it

        "thread" in this case refers to 討論串。

: I've tried googling but I still feel confused.
: Maybe I put the wrong keywords.
          ^^^           ^^^^^^^^
          used          seach words

        "put" is not entirely the right choice of word.

: Like I just said, "sometimes" tense involves not only refering time,
: but also having connotations, say how politely you ask people or
: just ask without any emotion.

        [sometiems tense not only concerns with the time of the action
        or state expressed by the verb, but also is associated with
        the connotation of a particular verbal/written expression]

        You are confusing tense (in the grammatical sense) with common
        usage. Further, tense by itself does not "have" any connotation.
        You need to understand the word before you use it. Otherwise, it'd
        be like my classmate saying "slaveray is symptomatic of modernity."

: This is why I brought this question up.
: Of course I know the importance of context, but in some cases (like explame 3)
: there are no context. I suppose there is some logic in a native speaker's
: mind when he/she choose to say that way or this way.

        My memory doesn't serve me. Don't remember what ex. 3 was about.
        Nevertheless, you are right to say that there is some logical
        explantion behind a native speaker's choice of words (whether
        that logical explantion would be satisfactory is another question).

        Language to an extent determines thought, and vice versa. What
        this implies is that, you shouldn't learn a language solely by
        studying the rules of that language. Rather, you also need to
        think in that language, getting into the mind's eye of the native
        speaker.

: For example, you can easily tell from this post that I'm not a native speaker.
: Maybe I'm wrong, just wondering/wonder/wondered..:P

        in this case, you would use "wondering".

: Your comments are very enlightening, but I still have a blurred pircture
                                                          ^^^^^^^
                                                        blurry
: You know it because you just know it?

        Beats me.
        What do you think?
        Do you think you know what "吃過飯沒？" means simply
        because you just know it?

        Hint: the expression "吃過飯沒" can be interpretated in two ways.



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◆ From: 74.98.239.53
推 chengyun:To me, grammar is simply a tool to facilitate the use
→ chengyun:of a language, but in the case of non-native speakers
→ chengyun:it is somehow tragic to see how the emphasis of
→ chengyun:                                  oops, emphasis on
→ chengyun:grammar has limited the flexibility of their language
→ chengyun:use~~extensive reading is still the key to getting a
→ chengyun:grip on a language~~
推 finavir:I would add social/cultural interaction, listening and
→ finavir:speaking. We don't acquire our mother tongue by
→ finavir:studying grammar. We acquired it through interacting with
→ finavir:people around us who speak the same language. While
→ finavir:extensive reading plays an important role in language
→ finavir:learning, bookish English isn't always pleasant to the
→ finavir:ears.
※ 編輯: finavir         來自: 74.98.239.53         (01/19 23:39)
→ finavir:note that I distinguish between language acquisition
→ finavir:and language learning. It's possible for speakers of
→ finavir:ESL/EFL to acquire English rathern than learning the
→ finavir:language.
推 chengyun:I agree with you on the acquisition of languages
→ chengyun:through interaction, but you have to admit that in
→ chengyun:the case of translation, where the market is largely
→ chengyun:focused on paper and pamphlet translation, bookish
→ chengyun:English is a relatively more expendable asset than
→ chengyun:just good spoken English~~
推 finavir:bookish English指的是講話就跟在背書一樣。就算是書面文
→ finavir:字翻譯，在spoken方面應該也要有一定的程度。英文畢竟不是
→ finavir:拉丁文，而是一直在演變。聽說讀寫是相輔相成，不應該只
→ finavir:注重其一而忽略其他。任何語言都是一樣﹝除了死掉的之外
→ finavir:，其他比較複雜的情況這裡就不提了﹞
→ finavir:然後若是覺得我說的沒頭沒尾，先說聲不好意思，我現在
→ finavir:重感冒，很難過。