[外絮] 湖人與塞爾提克，誰更偉大？

[laogiby (中肯伯)]

Lakers or Celtics - Which is the greatest NBA dynasty?

湖人或塞爾提克，誰是NBA歷史上最偉大的隊伍？

By Adam Spencer
Yahoo Sports

The two most storied franchises in the NBA since its inception have been the
Boston Celtics and the Minneapolis / Los Angeles Lakers. Both franchises are
rich in success, but which one is the greatest?

作為NBA史上最有話題的兩支勁旅，同樣的戰功彪柄，但誰是最偉大的？

Which team has had the greatest players?

哪一隊擁有最棒的球員？

Recently SLAM magazine ranked the 500 greatest NBA players of all time.
Admittedly every fan and critic will find fault with this list. However it will
serve as a base platform for this first question. (Note SLAM editors admitted
omitting Gail Goodrich from the list by accident. We can assume he would land
in the top 100. For our purposes here, I've included him accordingly.)

最近SLAM雜誌列出了NBA史上500大球員。無可否認的，每個球迷跟評論家都會
找到不滿意的地方，然而這仍是衡量上一個問題的一個基準點。
(備註：SLAM的編輯承認他們不小心遺漏了Gail Goodrich，我們可以假設若他
上榜，應該會進到百大。之後的比較我們會將他納入考慮)

This is not a list of the greatest Celtics or Lakers players, but rather the
greatest players (from the top 500 list) who happened to wear a Celtics or
Lakers uniform for one season or more. For example, few people will remember
#60 Pistol Pete Maravich as a great Celtic, or #48 Dennis Rodman as a Lakers'
legend. However both men were great players who happened to play for one of
these dynasties.

我們比較500大球員中，為這兩隊打球一季以上的球員數目有多少。
舉個例子，很少人會記得手槍Pete Maravich曾是賽隊球員，而小蟲Rodman也是
湖人的傳奇之一，這兩人都分別為賽爾提克或湖人打了一年球。

Boston Celtics 3/12, 10/50, 21/100, 36/200 (18%), 51/300 (17%), 62/400 (15.5%),
74/500 (15%)

LA Lakers 7/12, 12/50, 20/100, 36/200 (18%), 54/300 (18%), 73/400 (18%), 85/500
(17%)
             Celtics    Lakers
12大球員：      3          7
50大球員：     10         12
100大球員：    21         20
200大球員：    36         36
300大球員：    51         54
400大球員：    62         73
500大球員：    74         85

As this stat line shows, the Lakers and Celtics had about the same amount of
great players of the top 300. However overall, the Lakers have had 11 more
"great" players in their franchise than the Celtics.

總體來說，湖人在五百大球員中比賽爾提克多了11位。

More significant is the top 12, which the Lakers claim 7 of those players
compared to just 3 for the Celtics. The Lakers top 12 are: #2 Wilt Chamberlain,
#4 Shaquille O'Neal(notes), #6 Magic Johnson, #7 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, #10 Kobe
Bryant(notes), #11 Jerry West, #12 Elgin Baylor.

The Celtics top 12 are: #3 Bill Russell, #4 Shaquille O'Neal, #9 Larry Bird,
(Again, these ratings are from SLAM - not this author!)

最顯著的地方在Top 12

湖人擁有
#2 Wilt Chamberlain, #4 Shaquille O'Neal, #6 Magic Johnson
#7 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, #10 Kobe Bryant, #11 Jerry West
#12 Elgin Baylor

而賽爾提克只有
#3 Bill Russell, #4 Shaquille O'Neal, #9 Larry Bird

In case you were wondering #17 John havlicek (Celtics), #18 Karl Malone
(Lakers), #24 Bob Cousy (Celtics), #26 Kevin McHale (Celtics), #29 George Mikan
(Lakers), #30 Kevin Garnett(notes) (Celtics).

9 of the players in the top 500 played for both franchises. They are #4
Shaquille O'Neal, #34 Gary Payton, #132 Charlie Scott, #170 Clyde Lovelellette,
#196 Don Chaney, #315 Theo Ratliff(notes), #402 Kermit Washington, #424 Ernie
DiGregorio, and #427 Don Nelson. There are also players such as Rick Fox and
Brian Shaw and several others who played for both teams but did not make SLAM's
top 500.

500大球員中有九位曾同時效力於兩支球隊，他們分別是：
#4 Shaquille O'Neal, #34 Gary Payton, #132 Charlie Scott
#170 Clyde Lovelellette, #196 Don Chaney, #315 Theo Ratliff
#402 Kermit Washington, #424 Ernie DiGregorio, #427 Don Nelson

150 players of the top 500 played for either the Celtics or Lakers.

500大球員中就有150位曾為湖人或塞爾提克打球

NBA Finals appearances

The Boston Celtics have participated in 21 NBA Finals series in their history,
only 2 in the past 10 years (2008, 2010). The Los Angeles Lakers have been in
31 NBA Finals series, 7 in the past 10 years (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009. 2010).

NBA總冠軍賽表現

賽爾提克曾參與了21次總冠軍賽，近十年只有兩次

湖人參與了31次，近十年就有七次

NBA Championships

The Boston Celtics dominated the Los Angeles Lakers during the 60's winning
most of their leading 17 titles, compared to just 16 titles for the Lakers.

However, during the 80's the Celtics won just 3 NBA Championships, and the
Lakers won 5.

During the 90's only the Lakers made it to an NBA Finals in 1991, losing to the
Chicago Bulls in Jordan's first of 6 rings.

have won 5, (2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010)

NBA總冠軍

賽爾提克在60年代曾統治了湖人，17冠中大部分都是在那時期獲得，而湖人
只有16冠。

然而，在80年代賽爾提克只贏得三冠，湖人則有五冠。在90年代，只有湖人
在1991年打進唯一一次總冠軍賽，但輸給了Jordan在公牛的第一枚戒指。

2000年以後，湖人已經拿到五個冠軍。

Conclusion

Clearly, over the past 30 years the Lakers have been the superior franchise
winning 10 titles compared to just 4 the Celtics. Also the Lakers have had more
great players during their dynasty including seven of the greatest of all time.
If the Lakers can win a 3-peat this post season they will tie Boston for 17
titles and further cement their supremacy over the Boston Celtics. Do you agree
or disagree?

結論

毫無疑問的，在過去30年中，贏得10冠的湖人相較於只有4冠的賽爾提克，
是一隻更棒的球隊。而且湖人在他們歷史中擁有更多偉大球員，尤其是史上
最偉大球員中的七位。

若湖人今年能夠三連霸，他們就能追平賽爾提克的17冠，這將進一步鞏固
他們對賽爾提克的全面優勢。你同意嗎？

http://tinyurl.com/3n539cb

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※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) 
◆ From: 202.102.72.59
推 CarlosJR    :最偉大的是願意付豪華稅的老闆
推 kaede0711   :換句話講湖人一直有靠超級明星拿冠軍的傳統
推 sonico      :戰績差且球隊賠錢,但卻不離不棄的老闆最偉大.
推 sampsonlu919:不過加州四季如春 周圍產業發達 不少球星願意投靠
→ sampsonlu919:湖人也不意外了
→ s880303     :大歐兩個都打過.........
推 jacktedrule : 話說塞爾提克進總冠軍後命中率比湖人高
推 vm3294vu6   :八連霸很偉大阿 NBA有哪支球隊超過三連霸過
推 Jormungandr :KOBE第十....
推 eric5420    :嚴格來說 湖人還要少兩冠吧
→ eric5420    :就是去年那冠和對國王對那年 只是比較好奇的就是
推 MopeHank    :很好奇 前十二裡面另外兩個是誰 老喬跟?
→ eric5420    :怎麼對上湖人就容易出現這種爭議性結果
→ eric5420    :只能說 誰叫超賽國王不在la 史騰不愛  總冠軍被
推 kaede0711   :kobe得分超越他的後兩名前輩了,而跟前面幾個歷史級前
推 TheOneisNEO :老喬跟.....大O？
→ kaede0711   :輩比,排第10還算合理
→ eric5420    :"沒收"也只能乾笑兩聲了
→ eric5420    :反正nba也早就wwe化了 看看笑笑就好 別太認真
→ MopeHank    :原來....大歐一個人包了兩隊....他在賽隊不能算吧XD
→ Sakber      :如果今年賽隊拿冠軍就能算了
→ MopeHank    :當然希望老賽得冠軍!
推 avadar      :湖人賺的票房跟球迷比較多?
→ Renk        :結論：作者是湖迷 很愛捧湖人
→ lenta       :同時效力於兩個球隊....影分身嗎
→ ShineShineJu:竟然沒半篇live文
→ peter4710032:今天沒比賽。  這啥爛標題，擺明沒答案討戰 吃飽太閒
推 rexagi1988  :去年那冠有甚麼問題= =
推 Solid4      :要翻跟賽隊的舊帳可以把08年一起抓出來翻，那年的
→ winlight    :基本上湖人拿到的冠軍都有問題
→ Solid4      :No Call也是可以讓人看到摔電視
推 eric5420    :有NO CALL 那有無 YES CALL XD
→ eric5420    :自己都領先26分還能被逆轉 最後一戰還被爆39分
→ eric5420    :這樣要怪裁判NO CALL 正常會先檢討自己球隊
→ eric5420    :有無問題吧
推 shinwind    :傻眼.效力塞隊的大歐跟效力湖人的大歐 實力差哪麼多
→ eric5420    :不過去年光是最後關鍵第七戰 就多送了湖人20次罰球
→ eric5420    :(兩隊相減) 湖人能贏 焉能不感謝裁判?
→ eric5420    :不過想想也對 39-20-PERKINS受傷 倒輸一點也差不多
→ eric5420    :是這樣 裁判可能是考量到兩隊差距而不得不然
推 supreme0731 :這兩隻大家都知道 我比較想知道第三跟第四偉大的球隊
→ eric5420    :或許是我小人之心度裁判君子之腹了...
→ winlight    :該討論的在湖人拿冠軍的當下就討論完了
推 chichiCat   :這就像張飛打岳飛一樣無解吧...
推 c51155427   :大歐應該不算超賽吧 今年才打幾場...
推 zealeliot   :大歐也算超賽真的挺囧...
推 louis123321 :eric堪稱想要引戰卻沒人理的最佳楷模XDDD
推 Hanglin     :嗯，扣除掉KG，賽爾提克確實是偉大的球隊