Re: [新聞]里奧協定

[tuoba (拖把)]

該研討會提到這一段的論文在

http://www.iiicongressomundial.net/congresso/arquivos/
thematic_paper_ictpsy_eng.pdf

縮網址：http://0rz.tw/e459o

節錄該論文中的  2.2 Virtual child pornography

One further forensic issue of concern relates to pseudo (digitally altered)
images and virtual child pornography. he Council of Europe’s Convention on
the Protection of Children against Sexual Exploitation and Sexual Abuse,
states that, “Each Party may reserve the right not to apply, in whole or in
part, paragraph 1a. and e. to the production and possession of pornographic
material: consisting exclusively of simulated representations or realistic
images of a non-existent child”. It appears that the issue of ‘virtual
child pornography’ is left largely unaddressed within the international
framework, and there is little consensus around the necessity to make such
materials criminal. We will examine this in more detail when we consider
Internet child pornography and the law.

這段主要是說的大意是說，過去他們已經禁止了兒童性圖片（由拍攝真實兒童而得到的)
現在他們要關注在虛擬的兒童色情圖片（圖片中的人物並不存在這世界上）

In relation to digitally altered images, Gillespie (2003) has raised
important issues about how diferent an image has to be for it to constitute a
pseudo-image, possession of which in England and Wales is likely to attract a
lower sentence. In the US, the constitutionality of virtual child pornography
remains a critical issue. In Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (2002) a
majority of the Supreme Court struck down portions of the Child Pornography
Prevention Act of 1996, stating that virtual child pornography created
without real or  identiiable minors was unconstitutionally overbroad (Quayle,
2008). he US Court stated  that, “Virtual child pornography is not ‘
intrinsically related’ to the sexual abuse of children.  While the
Government asserts that the images can lead to actual instances of child
abuse,  the causal link is contingent and indirect. he harm does not
necessarily follow from the  speech, but depends upon some quantiied
potential for subsequent criminal acts”. It  might be thought that these ‘
pseudo-photographs’ complicate our understanding of the  problem and
challenge our understanding of harm. Harm, however, need not always be  harm
towards a speciic child. his is where concerns about sexual exploitation
arise. Most  legislation against the distribution and possession of child
abuse images builds on the  fact that even unaware victims somehow come to
harm, much in the way described by  King (2008), and the increased number of
abusive images in circulation may add to the  likelihood that children are
seen as possible objects of real abuse.

這段大意是說，虛擬的兒童色情圖片也會引發犯罪。

 In 2003, Taylor and Quayle wrote that, “Pseudo-photographs are constructed
photographs,  often very cleverly done with great technical sophistication,
using digital reconstruction  techniques to create an image that is not a
photograph of a real person, or of real events.  hus the head of a child
might be placed onto the body of a woman, where the body  features are
manipulated to make it appear to be that of a child (breast reduced in size
or  eliminated, and pubic hair eliminated)…”. However, while the production
of such material  might have been a technological challenge a few years ago,
this would not be the case today.  With the advent of software packages such
as Adobe Photoshop, the majority of us would  be able to create quite complex
digitally altered images. he prediction that as computer-  aided animation
and 3D computer graphics become easier and more accessible there will  be a
growth in animated child pornography, wholly constructed as computer images,
has  become a reality, although it is unclear what impact this might have on
the availability of  such image distribution.

現代的技術可以很容易做出很逼真的虛擬兒童色情圖片，圖片中的人物不存在
圖片中發生的事件也從來沒有發生過，可是圖片看起來像是真的

 One of the primary producers of such imagery is Japan where there is a huge
market in  manga, and other forms of animation, that many believe are
sexually exploitative. A report  in the UK’s Guardian newspaper (Guardian,
2008) suggested that sexually explicit comics  account for a large proportion
of Japan’s Yen 500 bn manga market, with many featuring  schoolgirls or
childlike adults being raped or engaged in sadomasochism. However, the
 article suggested that manga belonging to the popular ‘lolicon’ –
 Japanese slang for Lolita  complex – genre are likely to escape the
proposed ban in Japan on the possession of child  pornography, “as MPs are
concerned that outlawing them could infringe on freedom of  expression and
drive men who use them as an outlet for their sexual urges to commit  more
serious sexual ofences”. In the inal report of the Japanese National Police
Agency  External Experts Study Group on Protection of Children from Harmful
Efects of Virtual Society (External Experts Study Group on Protection of
Children from Harmful Efects of Virtual Society, 2006) it was stated that
there are comics, PC games and animation in circulation with sexual abuse
images of children who appeared to be under 18 and some as young as primary
school age. While some show images of children engaged in sexual intercourse,
there are also those which appear to contain children being gang-raped by
many adult men, forced into violent and demeaning sexual activities, and in
which it is suggested that the children are enjoying these sexual acts.
Further, some of these publications have such images on their front covers.

這段就是日本被批評的那一段，主要是講說日本有很龐大的漫畫、動畫、遊戲產業
然後有提到 Lolicon - 意思是日本話中的 Lolita 情節者
也提到定義兒童- 低於 18 歲與小學兒童..

he report suggested that while there is some self-censorship imposed by
bodies such as the Nihon Ethics of Video Association and Ethics Organisation
of Computer Software, this does not apply to all products, and amongst them
there are animated ilms with child sexual abuse images. What is also
troubling is that this report suggested that the Internet has become a
conduit for the sale of hard-copy comics (over which there is little
control). “According to a sampling survey conducted by the National Police
Agency in November 2006, at one of the famous internet book sales sites which
sell adult comic books and the likes comprehensively, 30% of some 9000 adult
comic books are suspected to be those with child sexual abuse images, and
judging from the cover sheet containing such images as school bags unique to
primary school children, it can be expected that a good number depicting
children below the primary school ages as the objects of sexual acts are in
the market. Further, the volume of comic books with child sexual abuse images
is believed to be larger than those in the forms of PC games and animation
ilms... Besides, the survey also conirmed that the same ive comic books
depicting a child appeared to be at below primary school age as an object of
sexual acts are sold at the 6 famous internet book-sales sites”. In a report
appearing in the magazine Shukan Bunshun, (Shukan Bunshun, 2005), an
interview with staf from a game shop indicated that, “here are two major
streams of games showing little girls; one is a love story with an innocent
girl, and the other is extremely violent one that a player can sexually
control and train a girl. One of the popular games is one that has ‘an
ejaculation button’ a player can push to put their sperm over a girl”.
However, it is apparent that while such materials are produced in countries
such as Japan, they are consumed by people from over the world. In the report
by Baartz (2008) of Australian ofenders, investigators gave detailed
responses to the child exploitation material found in 10 of the 50 cases
identiied. One such investigator reported, “A vast majority of the
collection were cartoon drawings from Japan. he drawings were very graphic in
nature depicting children involved in sex acts with adults and other
children. Some of the cartoons were violent in nature showing children in
bondage and also children who appeared to be distressed by the situation.
Some of the cartoons also depicted incest with both the mother and the father
” (p. 24).  As we have seen, in countries outside of Japan there has been a
bid to criminalise the  possession of non-photographic visual depictions of
child sexual abuse. In the UK a formal  period of consultation began in
relation to this in April 2007 and concluded in June of  that year. Prior to
this, the Criminal Law Sub Group of the Home Secretary’s Task Force  on
Child Protection on the Internet had been considering the issues raised by
computer  generated images (CGIs), drawings and cartoons which show graphic
depictions of sexual  abuse of children or child-like characters. he
Consultation document recognised that these  images do not involve harm to
real children in their creation, but that the possession of such  material
was a cause for concern, particularly as technological advances have
increased the  availability of such material. In the summary of the responses
to the Consultation, it was  noted that many people viewed the deinition of
what would constitute ‘pornographic’ as  both troublesome and opaque. here
was also concern that, “stylisations of animations freely  mix aspects
typifying diferent ages”, which would make the allocation of age subjective
 and therefore an impossible assessment of legality. he UK government plans
to bring  forward legislation to introduce this new ofence. Opponents of
criminalising pseudo-  child pornography and virtual child pornography have
argued that this material, because  no child is harmed in its production,
should not be drawn within the framework of child  pornography. hey argue
that because the historic purpose of criminalising production of  child
pornography is to prevent children from being sexually abused, and because
pseudo-  images do not involve actual abuse, they should not be criminalised.
Indeed, opponents  of these measures, such as the American Civil Liberties
Union, have argued that people’s  thoughts are their private thoughts, and
that prohibition of pseudo-child pornography  is a violation of free speech
rights (Taylor and Quayle, 2003). However, Oswell (2006)  has presented an
important argument against this stating that, “Although the evidential
 value of the virtual image is diferent from an actual image (and hence the
forms of police  investigation and legal prosecution are diferent), until an
image can be said to correspond  to an actual case of child sexual abuse, all
Internet child pornography can be viewed as real.  In this sense, the primary
concern is not one of the efects of the image on others or one  of the
relations of power encoded in the image, but one of the virtual evidentiality
of the  image (ie, on the image’s capacity to refer to an objective reality
that is both internal and  external to the image). he ethical intensity of
the virtual image lies precisely in its capacity  to refer to a scene beyond
itself” (p. 258). Oswell (2006) goes on to state that the crime of
 possession, making or distribution of child pornography (whether virtual or
not) is a crime  not only against a particular child, but against all
children. “It is a crime against childhood  as a universal” (p. 252).

這段講很多，我覺得比較重要的是，儘管有人認為人的思想是有自由的
禁止虛擬兒童色情圖片是違反言論自由，但是他們認為不管這些圖片是真實還是虛擬的
都是一種犯罪

 We argue that the crime of possession, and making or distribution of child
pornography,  whether virtual or not, are crimes not only against a
particular child, but against all  children.


簡單的說，就是他們認為所有的「兒童色情圖片」都是違法並且應該被禁止
不管那些圖片是虛構的還是真實的，這些圖片都危害到全部的兒童


一、基本上這個議題是全面性的，這個研討會討論了很多方向的各種主題
    像是世界各國的兒童被虐待以及早婚等.. 各種議題，一大堆.

二、日本被批評的部分就是上面那一小段，大概佔了千頁研討會論文中的一頁

三、我認為他們在爭論的地方似乎不是圖片中兒童的年齡該定義為幾歲
    而是包含所有人幻想畫出來的虛擬的圖片都必須被法律約束
    他們認為不管圖片中的事件有沒有發生過，人物是否真實存在都一樣可視為犯罪

文章中一開始介紹時候講了，過去已經立法阻止拍攝真實的兒童色情圖片
現在他們要開始推動法律阻止「虛構」的，包含各種影像、圖片、動畫、遊戲
（遊戲當然也包含了 純愛跟非純愛)

我個人的感想是，每個人應該都有思想自由、言論自由....
如果因為部分人的不爽，就要限制另一些人的言論自由

這個世界會變成怎麼樣呢？

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◆ From: 71.123.132.118
※ 編輯: tuoba           來自: 71.123.132.118       (12/07 03:26)
→ chenglap:麻生太郎要捍衛日本主權, 另外要舉行反里奧協定示威.
→ chenglap:像韓農一樣拿著木樁去衝擊會議會場.
→ chenglap:其實重點是為何全世界都有那種愛干涉他人的法西斯.
推 makurosu7:所以..就是說...有"想"這些情節的人..就可以判刑了 ..囧
推 F23:樓上，真假?
→ F23:1f
→ F23:如果他們是針對「虛擬的犯罪」要去立法，那就不用擔心了。
→ F23:因為，那幾乎會限制了95%以上的創作物，無論電影、小說、acg
→ tuoba:他們的論點是，那些虛構的兒童色情圖片會危害真實世界兒童
推 chenglap:他們的邏輯似乎是人有思想就是犯罪.
→ tuoba:不過論文當中並沒有很有力的證據說明這方面的關連
推 makurosu7:下一步就是 那些虛構的成人色情圖片會危害真實世界成人
→ tuoba:如果按照他們的邏輯，那好萊塢的電影90%都要被禁止吧
推 TheRock:我想未來的規範重點應該還是會放在涉及性行為、內褲暴露、
→ tuoba:好萊塢的電影裡面充滿了各種犯罪情節...
推 chenglap:不, 根本就應該針對他們自身去反對, 叫他們滾回家吃自己
※ 編輯: tuoba           來自: 71.123.132.118       (12/07 03:31)
→ chenglap:這世界所有暴政都是這種人支持出來的, 他們是社會的癌症
→ TheRock:以及其他暗示或美化兒童性行為、援交的劇情吧。
推 F23:我發現這篇文章比paper好懂多了..... = =
→ F23:之前不是有美國校園血案就是模仿電影嗎？
→ F23:我們應該比照這篇論文，要求電影不得出現槍殺、武打情節。
推 judgewing:回原PO，可參考圖書館戰爭
→ F23:對圖書館戰爭有點興趣了.... 有空要拖來看看....
推 popopopo59:那一直以來看那些東西洩慾的人，這個管道被阻止之後的
→ popopopo59:後座力不知道他們有沒有考慮過??
→ popopopo59:本來可以道德限制的住東西最後可能連法律都限制不住了
→ popopopo59:               (對調)
→ tuoba:補充，他們想禁止的東西也包含文字喔，只是因為那段強調的
→ tuoba:是圖片，所以比較沒有提到文字的部分
推 andy80209:叫這個組織把我想把的變成我女朋友 我就支持他們
→ andy80209:只會堵 不會疏導 反正出事也會說跟他們無關 硍
→ tuoba:從論文來看，他們並沒有考慮到禁止之後的後果...
→ tuoba:另外如果要禁止的話，也要先過美國那一關
推 judgewing:100%的圖書館戰爭背景，吾等要立圖書館法了嗎
→ andy80209:有想到 就不會放這種鬼東西出來當議題了
→ littlecut:推f23 那歐美國家的槍戰片 飆車片 等 也都不要演 硍
→ tuoba:美國在這方面也是世界強國，佔50% 以上喔 XDDD
→ tuoba:如果真的執行了，那美國網路業會重挫...
推 andy80209:歐八碼 硬起來吧
→ tuoba:俄羅斯也佔了約 33% 左右吧，這兩個才是老大
→ judgewing:煽動美國的極端保守份子不知道有沒有立法禁止的可能
→ andy80209:如果米國+北極熊都反對 我看要通過除非地球其它國家贊成
推 F23:放空好萊屋類股.... =w=
→ tuoba:因為美國跟俄羅斯兩個加起來是82.5% 亞洲全部加起來還不到10
→ andy80209:那怎麼只說日本 擺明不敢碰老虎咩 俗仔會議
→ tuoba:我講的數字是來自 IWF （網路觀察基金會)
→ tuoba:的網路兒童色情圖片來源，美國跟俄羅斯佔了82.5%
推 littlecut:推樓上 樓上的所謂圖片是2次元還是3次元
推 F23:我想應該都有....  =.=
→ tuoba:他沒有講2次元或者 3 次元.. 但本論文講的是「全部」
→ tuoba:包含了虛構的跟真實的...
推 judgewing:美帝搞不好只禁國外不禁國內，說一套做一套
推 littlecut:恩= =歐美國家比較多是真的@@
→ littlecut:唉呦 美帝常常都是說一套做一套啊
推 judgewing:所以就真的執行，圖書館戰爭開打吧
推 ghfj5678:發動圖書館戰爭吧
推 insethry:有種因噎廢食的感覺....= =
推 kamisun:畫個羅莉出來，定義她為18歲不就得了
推 makurosu7:樓上請重看