Re: 所謂『正統』的語言使用

[finavir (楚葛)]

※ 引述《Adlay ()》之銘言：
:           原PO身為白人社會中的少數族裔，
:           讓人深深同情所受到的社會壓力和認同危機....

        呃，
        不用同情啦。我講那些本來也就不是要人同情的。

:           但是，有些事情是需要釐清的....
:           第一、何謂「正統」英文？
:           只有知道正統英文長什麼樣子，
:           我們也才有依據判斷什麼叫做「非正統」英文.....
:           從語音的層次來看，且不論所謂殖民地英文，
:           光我們從哈利波特和蜘蛛人的電影，就很明顯可以察覺英語口音的多元性，
:           到底是哈利波特說的英語是正統呢？還是蜘蛛人彼得講的英語才是正統？
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                        are you merely talking about accent?
                        or are you talking about the use of the language?

        嗯，那個，我的原文其實不是在講口音上的正統性。
        大概是我沒有講明白﹝一整晚沒有睡覺...orz﹞

        我主要是在講語言的使用：words, syntax and grammar.

        For examples,
        1) You don't say "Why are you scratching my English?"
        Because it's a verbatim translation, which is
        simply semantically wrong.

        2) You don't say "I an apple ate" or "my getting language
        not only in Taiwan but in SF."

        3) You don't write "Blimey, your having a baby!" or "the
        war in Afghanistan and it's social implications critical is to
        NATO the future of."

        4) "In that city,the only feeling for me is grammar is so cruel
        that make hearing others is incredible"

        Aside from the erroneous use of grammar, this sentence suffers also
        from syntax errors and erroneous vocabulary usage.
.       It might not necessarily be categorised as Chinglish, but it's just
        not English.

        ***             ***             ***

        至於口音，我先前舉的那個Jamaica的例子，you have to consider
        it within the wider socio-political context and historical processes.
        I believe I've explained it quite clear at the beginning of my
        previous post.

        Personally, I can't care less about people's accent(s), so long
        as I can understand what they are saying.


:           這還只是以大西洋做最初步的區別而已，
:           英美兩國各地口音差異甚大，就連同在倫敦或紐約這樣的大都會，
:           城東和城西的人說出來的發音就會有些微不同....

        The diversity of accents you will find in the city of Toronto is
        probably proportional to the number of ethnicities in the city.

        Again, my previous post is not about whether there is a standard
        universal accent. It concerns with the "standard use of the
        language", by which I mean the "commonly acceptable use of the
        English language". (while I recognise the need to elaborate on
        this point, I will have to remove myself from the discussion.
        I've got a 40-page dissertation to write and a final on Monday).

        I would suggest that you read, if you have the leisure:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language
        and all its sub-entries

:           再者，除了地域因素外，年齡也是個重要因素，
:           換句話說，語音會隨時間而改變，而且變得很快....
:           就從Longman Pronunciation Dictionary中擷取一個例子：
:           harass常見兩種發音：['haer Es]或[hE 'raes] ([E]是弱化元音)
:           根據研究，英國老人大部分都是重音在前，只有不到20%重因在後；
:           可是英國的年輕一輩卻超過60%的人重音在後，重音在前的反而是少數...
:           問題來了，到底是英國老人的英語正統，還是年輕人的英語正統？

        You're confusing/conflating the use of language with accent.




--
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where Stewie "in-Quahog-no-one-can-hear-you-scream" Griffin is idolised.
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推 lovelyvv:我在我語言學的班上做過一項調查..12個的native裡面
→ lovelyvv:有4個人把need not 視為錯誤,全是老加,有一位老美選ok
→ lovelyvv:在一個west ontario做出的調查..文法的確在變化.中文也同
→ lovelyvv:我同意要學就要學正規的英文..(別戰我.就是1白人的英文)
→ lovelyvv:但對其他的英文 englishes 也加以認同..
推 julians:Adlay is merely exemplifying his argument on the
→ julians:"Imaginary" nature of the standard English with accent
→ julians:his focus and goal are more than phonological study
推 finavir:I know. I wrote this before I saw his/her later posts.
推 finavir:One of my profs once told me not to use "critique" as
→ finavir:a verb. He actually attached a comic strip (Calvin and
→ finavir:Hobbes) arguing against the verbalisation of words.
推 finavir:I still verb my words when the occasion calls. ;p
→ julians:It's a he. And he is a linguist. Though I have no idea
→ julians:about which specific field is his major.