蕭萬長 政大外交系第一名畢 政大外交所第一名畢

獨家專訪行政院經建會蕭萬長主委... ... ... ... ... ... ...
■翁娟娟 專訪/鐘彩雲 譯
*========================================================================*
Exclusive Interview with Vincent C. Siew,
Chiarman of Council for Economic Planning and Development R.O.C.
    八月一日筆者拜訪經建會主委蕭萬長先生，暢談其學習英文的方法，蕭主委的英
文學習經驗採穩紮穩打的方式，對於構成語言基礎的英文單字，更下過一番工夫，值
得效法。在整個訪談過程中，蕭主委也提及其選擇外交的理由，以及英文應用在談判
上的技巧，和與其目前所執掌的國家經濟建設有關之話題。蕭主委笑容可掬，態度親
切，一點都沒有官架子，半個小時的訪談在輕鬆的氣氛中結束。訪問內容如下：
   On August 1, I paid a visit to Mr. Vincent C. Siew, Chairman of Council
 for Economic Planning and Development R.O.C., for an interview on how he
learned English. Chairman Siew's basic approaches are taking one step at a
 time and building a solid foundation. He made a special effort in expandi
ng his English vocabulary -- the foundation of mastering the language. His
 example is worth following. During the interview, Chairman Siew stated th
e reason why he chose foreign affairs as his career, mentioned how he appl
ied his English language skill in negotiating, and commented on issues of
national economic planning and development. Chairman Siew was amiable and
unassuming, and he was smiling during the whole interview. Under such a pl
easant atmosphere, the half-hour interview seemed to pass in no time. The
interview is as follows:

問：請問蕭主委為何選擇就讀外交系？
Ｑ：Chairman Siew, would you please tell us why you chose to major in fore
ign affairs?
答：有幾個理由讓我選擇就讀外交系。在民國四十六年，也就是我開始進大學的時候
，那時候我們的外交是一個很平順的時代，也是個鼎盛的時代。在當時我們是聯合國
安全理事會的常任理事國，差不多和五十個國家有邦交關係。外交這個行業對年輕人
來說，很有挑戰性。加上民國四十幾年的時候，出國很不容易，大部份有國際觀的人
，想出國的話，當外交官是個很好的途徑。
Ａ：There were several reasons why I chose foreign affairs as my major. In
 1957, the year I entered college, it was a very peaceful era in the histo
ry of our foreign affairs which was at its peak. At that time, our country
 held a permanent seat at the United Nations Security Council, and we had
diplomatic relations with about fifty nations. Foreign affairs sounded ver
y challenging to the young generation. Back then, in the fifties, it was n
ot easy to go abroad. For people with global vision, a career in diplomacy
 was a good avenue to go overseas.
    不過促使我選擇外交，還是我本身從小的時候，對國際事物有相當強烈的興趣。
因此我小時候地理讀得很好。我對國際性活動很有興趣，例如童子軍活動，因此可以
說讀外交是合乎我的性向。
     But, what made me choose foreign affairs as my major was my strong in
terest in international affairs which I had since I was a young boy. I was
 very good at geography as a boy, and I was always very interested in inte
rnational activities, such as boy scouts activities, which indicated my ap
titude. Therefore, I might say that majoring in foreign affairs suited me
well.
問：您在政大外交系就讀時，八個學期中有七個學期第一名，請問是如何辨到的？
Ｑ：When you were at the Department of Diplomacy at Chengchi University, y
ou ranked first in your class in seven out of eight semesters. How did you
 do it?!
答：其實我讀書的時候，沒有很刻意要拿第一。進了政大外交系以後，覺得的確是合
乎我的興趣。我對這些外交課程感到很有興趣，很喜歡，所以把時間都花在讀書上，
像個書呆子。
Ａ：Actually, as a student, I didn't really aim at ranking first in my cla
ss. After I entered the Department of Diplomacy at Chengchi University, I
realized how well it suited me. I was so interested the courses that I spe
nt all the time studying like a bookworm.
    一般人可能不能體會出我的讀書樂，樂在讀書的那種心情。一般學生都是考試的
時候才去Ｋ書，應付考試，我不這樣子。我考試的時候，反而不會緊張，因為我平常
時候就看書。也因為這樣，養成追求學問、追求新知、做學問的興趣。
   Most people would not understand how much joy reading gave me or how mu
ch I enjoyed reading. Most students boned up in order to pass the exams, b
ut I didn't study to take tests. During midterms and finals, I was not ner
vous at all, because I usually studied even when there were no exams. And
owing to this attitude, I developed a great interest in learning and in ac
quiring new knowledge.
問：您當年放棄出國留學，有沒有覺得遺憾？對您而言，在個人生涯有沒有什麼利弊
得失？
Ｑ：Do you regret giving up studying abroad back then? Did it affect your
career development?
答：我在大學畢業的時候，沒有想過會當公務人員，我的興趣一直是在從事研究。在
大學四年的生活裡，我對讀書一直有很濃厚的興趣，每天都待在圖書館裏也獲得一些
心得。
Ａ：When I graduated from college, I did not consider serving as a civil o
fficial. I was very interested in conducting research. During the four yea
rs of college, I always took such a great interest in studying that I spen
t most of the time in the library, hence, I made some discoveries and had
some new ideas.
   我當然希望再出國深造。但是因為家裡的關係，我也不能不尊重他們，所以就放
棄了。
   Of course I wanted to study further abroad, but I had to respect the wi
shes of my family. I therefore gave up the idea because of my family.
   我沒想到放棄出國會改變我一生的生涯規劃。我那時候也希望有機會再出國深造
。可是人生嘛！很難按照你的規劃去走。
   I never thought that giving up going abroad would change my career plan
. I was still hoping for an opportunity to study abroad then. But, that's
life. It's hard to have everything as you hoped or planned.
    如果問我有沒有覺得遺憾，我早期的時候是覺得遺憾。現在我不會了，倒不是因
為我現在有地位，而是年紀愈大，人生閱歷愈多，覺得好的東西不是強求就可以得到
的，順其自然是個很好的答案。
   If you ask me whether I regretted or not, the answer would have been "y
es" in the beginning; but now I don't regret it any more. This is not just
 because I am now well-established in my career. It's because as I have gr
own older and experienced more, I've come to realize that one does not get
 to have something good just by insisting on having it. Following the natu
ral course would be a very good answer.
    當初我如果出國深造，我可能會從事學術性的工作，可能是個學者，不是回國服
務、就是定居在國外。這是我們那一代出國大致的想法。如果我出國深造，再回國當
公務人員，我想這個機會很渺茫。現在我當了三十幾年的公務人員，按部就班，這樣
的人生完全不同，各有利弊，依我看，這也就是人生嘛！沒有所謂的利弊得失。我不
是要人家相信命運，但也不能完全排斥命運。
   If I had gone abroad to study, I might now be in academia, probably a s
cholar, either teaching in our home country or settling down overseas. Thi
s was what in the mind of those people who went abroad. If I had studied a
broad, it would have been very unlikely for me to return to be a civil off
icial. Now I've served as a civil official for over thirty years and I've
climbed up the ladder step by step. This is a totally different kind of li
fe. There are always two sides of the same coin. In my opinion, that's lif
e and one cannot measure the so-called gain or loss. I don't mean for peop
le to believe in fate, but it's impossible to completely ignore fate.
問：請談談您學習英文的歷程。
Ｑ：Please tell us about your experiences in mastering English.
答：我的英文並不是很好，我完全是  MIT (Made in Taiwan) 。不過我花很多時間
去翻字典、背單字，做很多翻譯的工作。在求學過程中，我學英文都是用這種方法。
這種方法可能是比較笨的辦法，但是這樣打下來的基礎比較穩。
   Ａ：My English is not very good. I am one hundred percent MIT (made in
Taiwan). But I spent lots of time consulting dictionaries, memorizing voca
bulary words and translating a great deal. During my school years, I learn
ed English in this way, which may be relatively clumsy. Nevertheless, I bu
ilt a solid foundation in this way.
  我每天總要背些生字，因此英文字彙記了不少。後來又做很多翻譯的工作，英翻中
、中翻英都有。特別是英翻中的東西，我在學校的時候，很有興趣，看到好的文章就
把它翻成中文，不一定是投稿，但是自己翻，作為一種磨練。這點對我學習的過程有
很大的幫助。
   I memorized new words on a daily basis; therefore, I built up a good vo
cabulary. Later on, I did plenty of translation, either from English to Ch
inese or from Chinese to English, especially from English to Chinese. When
 I was in school, I took a great interest in translating. Whenever I came
across something good, I would translate it into Chinese. It was not neces
sary for publication; I did it as a practice for myself. And it was very h
elpful in my mastering English.
問：對於沒有機會出國留學者，如何利用現有的環境學習英文？國內的學習環境，對
學英文的人來說，最大的困難在那裡？您是如何突破它？
Ｑ：How would you advise people who have no opportunity to study abroad to
 utilise the available resources here to master their English? What would
you consider the biggest obstacle for students learning English in this en
vironment? And, how did you overcome it?
答：現在學英文的環境比我們那個時候好太多了。就拿硬體來說，現在學英文的設施
，像你們英業達現在推出的產品，等於是一部活字典，不但可查詢，還可發音，通通
可以教你，我們那個時代哪有這種產品。還有好多學習英文的場所，像學校、補習班
... 等等。
Ａ：Nowadays, the environment here for learning English is much better tha
n it was in my time. Let's take hardware as an example, say, the learning
tools, such as the electronic dictionary product of Inventec. It is like a
 walking dictionary. You can consult it. It gives you the pronunciation, t
oo. It teaches you everything. In my time, where could one find any produc
t like this? And there are now so many places where you can learn English,
 such as schools, language schools, etc.
    軟體設施來說，教學的方法都在更新，視聽教室的設備也很完善。還有很多外國
人住在這裡。如果真有心要學英文，交朋友就可以學。
   As for software, teaching methods have been improved, and audio-visual
classrooms are also completely furnished with modern equipment. Besides, t
here are many native speakers. If you really have your mind set on masteri
ng English, you can accomplish it just by making friends.
    現在學英文是很必需的，因為整個台灣的經濟發展已朝向國際化。國際化就是以
英文為溝通的工具，所以我們要把它學好。這就是為什麼新加坡、香港比我們更早國
際化。因為那邊的人一生下來，英文就是他們的工作語言。
   Acquiring English is a must because the economic development in Taiwan
has been internationalizing. To internationalize means we must use English
 as the communication tool; therefore, we need to have a good command of i
t. In Singapore and Hong Kong, English has always been their language at w
ork, and that's why they internationalized earlier than we did.
    我覺得國內學英文最大的困難是我們沒有把英文當成是一種工作語言及溝通的工
具。大家還沒有這樣的共識。如果你把它當成是一種工作的語言及溝通的工具，你就
會有強烈的慾望去學英文。
   I think the biggest problem in learning English here is that we don't u
se English as the language at work or as the tool for communication. We do
n't share the same awareness. If you look at English as a language you use
 at work or a tool for communication, you will have a stronger desire to m
aster it.
  事實上，英文是追求國際化的政策下必修的語言，它可以讓我們未來的生涯規劃多
一項資產。英文可以讓我們多接觸學習國際的事物，多吸收一些國際的新知，這些對
我們很重要。國內尚未有這種環境與共識，少數人還有這種心態，覺得學英文是一種
媚外的行為，這樣造成英文還不是很普及。
   Actually, English is a necessary element in pursuing internationalizati
on; it is one more resource for our future career. English enables us to a
cquire knowledge of global affairs. It is very important for us to have mo
re knowledge of the world. At present, we still haven't got that kind of e
nvironment or awareness. Some people still have a strange mental attitude
-- they regard learning English as an act of flattering foreigners -- whic
h really prevents English from becoming prevalent here.
    我們國內的街道、地圖及標識都沒有英文，如果外國人來到這裡，就覺得很陌生
、很不方便，這樣對國際化的政策就無法落實。
   We do not have English on our street signs or maps. When foreigners are
 here, they find everything strange and inconvenient. This surely hinders
our internationalization process.
   我承認自己英文不是很好，可是我不會排斥。不管是什麼語言，我對於學習都不
會排斥。我沒有什麼語言能力，但是我有信心，這樣學起來就不會覺得痛苦、吃力。
   I admit that my English is not very good, but I don't resist learning i
t. No matter what language it is, I don't resist the idea of mastering it.
 I am not particularly good at language, but I have confidence, which rend
ers the learning less painful and difficult.
問：您認為用英語與人談判該掌握哪些原則？
Ｑ：What do you consider to be the principles to adhere to when negotiatin
g in English?
答：英語是一個語言的工具。談判是用什麼語言，所掌握的原則都是一樣的。談判有
很多性質，很多目的。不同的性質，不同的目的，所應用的策略與原則也不同，我也
不能一下子說清楚。
Ａ：English is a language, a tool. No matter what language you use in nego
tiating, the principles remain the same. Negotiations are of all kinds and
 goals. Different kinds and different goals require different strategies a
nd principles. It's hard for me to express this clearly in a few sentences
.
    基本上，談判要把握幾項原則。第一是講理。只要是有道理的，不管是什麼語言
，放諸四海，都是可通的。沒有道理，強辯還是沒有道理。
   Basically, there are several principles to adhere to in negotiating. Fi
rst of all, you have to be reasonable. As long as you are reasonable, no m
atter what language you use, and no matter where you are, you can make it.
 If you are unreasonable, arguing won't be of any help.
    第二，我講信用，以誠懇的態度，不耍嘴皮，不虛偽。我誠誠懇懇地和對方講信
用。
   Secondly, I'm trustworthy. I take a sincere attitude, and I do not talk
 gibberish or double-deal. Based on trust, I sincerely deal with people.
    第三個原則是，儘量達到雙贏的原則。不要只是對自己有利，也要替對方設想，
讓彼此都能夠交待。
   My third principle is to try to reach a winning stage for both parties.
 What you take into consideration is your own interests and the other part
y's situation. You have to come up with something that both will feel comf
ortable with.
    用英文談判時要清楚。因為英文不是我們的母語，你要把它講清楚，讓對方慢慢
了解，建立互信，縱使不能夠一次談成，也可漸漸把雙方的立場拉近，到了一個彼此
都可以接受的交集點時，談判就可以達成協議。
   When using English in negotiating, you have to make yourself clear. Bec
ause English is not our mother tongue, we have to talk clearly; let other
people gradually get what we mean, and build up mutual trust. Although we
may not reach an agreement right away, at least we can try to establish a
closer relationship. When both sides reach a mutually acceptable point, th
en it's time for the negotiation to come to an agreement.
問：代表國家參加貿易談判時，面對尖銳話題如何打破僵局？
Ｑ：At trade negotiations, how do negotiating countries break the stalemat
e when facing thorny issues?
答：貿易談判都是些實質上的問題，有時候話題雖然尖銳，但沒有什麼爭議性。當面
對尖銳的話題時，打開僵局的最好辦法就是休會，暫時緩合一下緊張的氣氛。否則，
彼此劍拔弩張，針鋒相對，在這樣一個不和諧的氣氛下，反而會使談判的共識和雙方
的立場愈來愈遠。如果暫停一下，大家可以回去冷靜地思考。此外，也可以透過其它
的管道，把不合理的地方，私下告訴對方彼此再思考。
Ａ：Trade negotiations deal with practical issues. Although the issues mig
ht seem thorny, there is often no point in arguing. When facing thorny iss
ues, the best way to break the stalemate is to take a recess to ease the t
ensions. Otherwise, with such tension and hostility, the negotiating parti
es will drift further away from each other in reaching any agreement. On t
he other hand, if we take a break, everybody can calm down and think it ov
er. Besides, there are other ways to get past whatever you consider unreas
onable. You communicate through back channels and think things over.
  談判有兩種：一種是檯面上的談判，另外一種是檯面下的談判。檯面上的談判是可
以對外公開的，記者可以報導的。檯面下的談判通常都是主談者或是首席代表雙方兩
個人另闢密室密談。有些話在檯面上講，會造成不必要的緊張氣氛，私底下可把各自
的立場、困難都講清楚，這樣對談判很有幫助。
   There are two types of negotiations: one goes on the table, the other u
nder the table. The on-the-table negotiations are open to the public and r
eporters are allowed to report them. The under-the-table negotiations are
usually secretly conducted by the chief representatives from both parties.
 Some kinds of talk, when put on the table, only creates unnecessary tensi
ons. Yet, when you present them secretly, you can state clearly your situa
tion and difficulty, and that's very helpful for the negotiation.    一般
的談判，在檯面上講的話，不一定是真話，檯面下祕密地談判才是真話。一些重要的
、關鍵性及決定性的解決辦法往往是在檯面下協議出來的。
   Generally speaking, what is on the table is not true, while what goes u
nder the table is. Some important and crucial decisions in solving problem
s are usually made under the table.
問：您五月隨行李總統至中南美洲及南非訪問，請談談此行對於臺灣的經濟展望？
Ｑ：We know that Chairman Siew accompanied President Lee to Latin American
 countries and South Africa. Would you please comment on the impact of thi
s trip on the future of our economy?
答：我們整個經濟發展要朝向自由化與國際化，這是我們既訂的政策。在這政策之下
，假如能夠達到我們鞏固邦交的目標，我們最需要優先考慮的就是科技。
Ａ：Our economic development policy is aiming at liberalization and intern
ationalization, which is our set policy. Under this policy, our first prio
rity in pursuing the goal of solidifying the diplomatic relationships betw
een our country and other countries would be technology.
    中南美洲及南非是和我們有邦交的國家。我們和這些國家目前的經濟貿易關係很
密切。因此李總統這次率團到這些國家去訪問。我很榮幸有這個機會再度被派往隨行
。
   Latin American countries and South Africa have diplomatic relationships
 with us. These are countries with which we have close trade relations. Th
at's why President Lee headed the visit. And it was a great honor for me t
o have the opportunity to accompany President Lee in visiting all these co
untries.
    參加這個團最主要的目的是，針對這些國家的經濟、貿易合作關係怎樣進一步加
強與交換意見。我們覺得此行成果非常豐碩。所訪問的每一個國家都對中華民國的經
濟實力非常肯定與羨慕，都表示了強烈的意願，希望加強兩國之間的經濟合作關係，
特別希望我們中小企業到他們國家去投資。
   The main purpose of this tour was to exchange ideas with officials of t
hese countries and to strengthen our economic and trade cooperation. We al
l feel that this was a very fruitful trip. All the countries we visited re
cognize and admire the economic power of the Republic of China. They all d
eclared their strong desire to strengthen economic relations between their
 countries and ours. They especially hoped to have our medium and small bu
sinesses invest in their country.
  所以我想今後對我們中華民國的經濟來說，我們要國際化。這樣的訪問對我們國際
化有正面的催化作用。
   Therefore, I think, from now on, we have to internationalize our nation
al economy. This kind of economic development has positive catalytic effec
t on our reaching the stage of full internationalization.
【感謝蕭萬長主委百忙中接受訪問。同時編委會也感謝行政院經建會機要祕書胡富強
先生、專員楊桂香小姐、祕書呂筱芳小姐的協助，順利完成這篇訪問稿。】