Re: [新聞]美商務部部長：「孤立主義政策會是個錯誤」

[Sarkozy (king-like status)]

※ 引述《pursuistmi (common people)》之銘言：
: 標題:SPIEGEL INTERVIEW WITH US COMMERCE SECRETARY GUTIERREZ
: 'Isolationist Policies Would Be a Big Mistake'
: Should Russia face economic repercussions from the Georgia war? US Commerce
: Secretary Carlos Gutierrez told SPIEGEL how the West should respond,
: discussed the state of free trade in the world and talked about US
: presidential candidate John McCain.
  俄羅斯該因喬治亞戰事而面臨經濟上的反彈嗎？美國商務部長Carlos Gutierrez
  在接受德國新聞雜誌SPIEGEL訪問時談及西方該如何應對。他也提到了世界自由
  貿易的問題，以及美國總統參選人McCain。

: Part I
: SPIEGEL: Mr. Secretary, Russian troops are still in Georgia. NATO just
: decided to freeze its relationship with Moscow. Should the West limit its
: economic dealings with Russia as well?
  SPIEGEL: 部長先生，俄羅斯部隊還停留在喬治亞境內。北約剛決定要凍結與莫斯科的
  關係。西方國家是否也該跟進，限制其與俄羅斯的經濟往來？

: Carlos Gutierrez: Russia is putting itself into a very difficult situation.
: President Bush has been very clear on this: We have worked with Russia and we
: have been an advocate for Russia's entry into the world community. We have
: welcomed them into the group of the leading industrial nations. We welcomed
: Russia's desire to join the World Trade Organisation. They are putting all
: that at risk.
  Carlos Gutierrez: 俄羅斯正將自己陷入困境。布希總統說得很清楚：我們曾與俄國
  合作過，我們也想幫助俄國融入國際社群。我們歡迎俄國加入先進工業國集團和WTO
  俄國的作為卻有可能讓他們失去所有的這些機會。

: SPIEGEL: That means: Russia should be kicked out of the G-8 and should not be
: allowed to join the WTO?
  SPIEGEL: 也就是說俄國會被踢出G8，也不應獲准加入WTO?

: Gutierrez: We should always keep our options open and not start negotiating
: with ourselves. The Russians have to reconsider their own interests.
  Gutierrez: 我們應該對所有選項持開放的態度，不應閉門造車。俄國也應該重新思考
  他們自身的利益。

: SPIEGEL: What options are you referring to exactly?
  SPIEGEL：所以到底有哪些選項呢？

: Gutierrez: That we stop being an advocate for Russia's entry into the world
: community. They need to abide to the six-point agreement in Georgia that was
: signed. And I believe that President Bush acted wisely when he did not rule
: out any further options. Other nations should follow up.
  GUtierrez: 我們可能不會再支持俄國加入國際社群。俄國必須遵循在喬治亞簽訂的
  六點協定。我認為布希總統不排除任何選項的態度是很明智的。其他國也應該跟進。

: SPIEGEL: Punitive measures are tricky for Europeans -- perhaps given the
: dependence of many countries in Europe on Russian oil and gas. How dangerous
: is this dependence?
  SPIEGEL: 採行懲罰手段對歐洲來說是很棘手的一件事，因為許多歐洲國家都仰賴俄國
  的石油和天然氣供應。這種依賴會造成什麼程度的危機呢？

: Gutierrez: We are all too dependent on oil and gas from countries that don’t
: necessarily share our interests. Americans and Europeans should work together
: to reduce this dependency. Oil can be used as a political tool.
  Gutierrez: 我們全都仰賴某些國家的石油和天然氣供應，而這些國家的利益不一定和
  我們的利益一致。美國和歐洲應該同心協力減少這樣的依賴，因為石油也是一種政治
  工具。

: SPIEGEL: You mean as a political weapon?
  SPIEGEL： 你的意思是石油也可作為一種政治武器嗎？

: Gutierrez: As something to impact our national well-being and our national
: security.
  Gutierrez: 石油可作為一種手段來影響我們的國家福祉和國家安全。

: SPIEGEL: Many talk about energy independence. How to achieve it, though, is
: much more controversial.
  SPIEGEL：關於能源獨立性的討論很多，但是如何達到能源獨立卻是一個頗具爭議的問
  題。

: Gutierrez: The president said we have to produce more of our oil. We also
: should be willing to do what many countries in Europe have done -- using more
: nuclear power, for instance. We think it is a smart policy not to exclude any
: national source of energy. We can learn from each other.
  Gutierrez: 總統曾說過：我們自己需要生產更多石油。我們也必需提振意願，效法
  很多歐洲國家的作法，也就是提高核能的使用量。我們認為，不排除任何一種國家能源
  來源是一明智的政策，我們也可以互相學習。

: SPIEGEL: There are indications, though, that we are entering a new era in
: which countries focus more on their own national interests. The Doha Round --
: which aimed to lower trade barriers and increase global trade -- just failed.
: Who is to blame?
  SPIEGEL： 然而有些跡象顯示，在即將來臨的這個世代中，每個國家都會偏重自身的利
  益。多哈回合談判的目標是要降低貿易壁壘，促進全球貿易，然而談判卻觸礁了。
  誰該為此負責？

: Gutierrez: I have not given up hope that we can one day achieve a
: multilateral agreement. And the reason for that is because there is too much
: to be gained by free trade. That’s one of the really great ideas. You have
: probably seen the projections for the hundreds of millions of people that
: could be lifted out of poverty and helped with an agreement. But we couldn't
: achieve a worldwide consensus at this moment.
  Gutierrez: 我對達成多邊協議的這個目標還沒放棄希望，因為自由貿易能帶來的好處
  真的很多，這也真的是一個很好的想法。你可能有看過一些數據預測，說建立協議能夠
  使上億人脫貧，使他們獲得幫助，但是我們目前還無法達成全球共識。

: SPIEGEL: Why?
  SPIEGEL： 為什麼？

: Gutierrez: Well, getting 153 WTO member nations to come to an agreement is a
: challenge. That’s why the US for years has created a trade policy based on
: bilateral agreement. We should continue to be very aggressive with these
: bilateral free trade agreements. We have done it already with Mexico, Canada
: und countries in Latin America. It has been good for our exports.
  Gutierrez: 要讓WTO的153個成員達成共識是一項挑戰。這也就是為什麼長久以來美國
  創建的貿易政策都是奠基於雙邊協議。我們應該要持續積極推動這些雙邊自由貿易協定
  我們已和墨西哥，加拿大，還有拉丁美洲國家訂立協定。這對我們的出口有益。

: SPIEGEL: But not necessarily for American jobs. There is a heated debate in
: the US on the benefits of free trade. Workers in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania
: and Illinois -- once the industrial heartland of the country -- see
: themselves as being the losers of free trade policies.
  SPIEGEL：但是對美國的工作機會不一定有益。針對自由貿易的利益這個題目，在美國國
  內有非常激烈的論辯。俄亥俄州，密西根州，賓州，伊利諾州以前都是美國的工業重心
  但是這些地方的工作者卻認為自己是自由貿易政策下的輸家。

: Gutierrez: If there is an individual that has been impacted by trade and lost
: his job, there is nothing I can tell him that would justify what happened.
: The problem is that too often people use trade as an excuse. And in the world
: of sound bites and quick statements, that is what people hear. They blame
: free trade but it is technical progress that’s responsible.
  Gutierrez: 如果有人受到貿易的影響而丟了飯碗，我怎麼跟他解釋都沒用。現在的問
  題是大家經常把問題都歸咎於貿易。在媒體發達，資訊爆炸的時代，大家所聽所聞都是
  這樣的說法。有些人怪罪貿易，但是技術上有無進步才是問題的原因。

: SPIEGEL: Millions of Americans want trade that isn't just free, but is also
: fair.
  SPIEGEL: 很多美國人想要的不只是自由貿易，他們更想要「公平」的貿易。

: Gutierrez: I agree in fair and free trade -- as long as the word "fair" is
: not a code word for isolationism.
  Gutierrez: 我贊同公平自由貿易，但是所謂「公平」的意涵指的不應該是孤立主義。

: SPIEGEL: In the US, a number of politicians have suggested that they would
: like to renegotiate NAFTA -- the free trade agreement between Mexico, Canada
: and the US.
  SPIEGEL：有些美國政治人物表示他們想要針對北美自由貿易協定，也就是墨西哥，加拿
  大，美國三國間的自由貿易協定，進行重新談判。

: Gutierrez: I find it, frankly, almost embarrassing that the $14 trillion
: dollar economy wants to renegotiate with the $800 million dollar economy.
  Gutierrez: 老實說，我覺得一個規模14兆美元的經濟體要和規模8億美元的經濟體重新
  談判，真是讓人覺得有點丟臉。

: SPIEGEL: Would you go so far as to say that free trade in the US is at risk
: if a Democrat gets elected in November?
  SPIEGEL： 如果11月大選當選的是民主黨人，你覺得美國的自由貿易會受影響嗎？

: Gutierrez: I would say that if we were to adopt isolationist policies, that
: would be a big mistake.
  Gutierrez: 我覺得，如果我們採取孤立主義政策，那會是個很大的錯誤。

: SPIEGEL: Aren't you concerned at all about the enormous trade deficit in the
: US? America was once the biggest exporter in the world, but now, the country
: is the biggest importer in the world.
  SPIEGEL： 你難道不會擔心美國巨大的貿易赤字嗎？美國曾是世界上最大的出口國，但
  是現在卻成了世界上最大的進口國。

: Gutierrez: There are also other more significant numbers to show if an
: economy is succeeding: the growth rate, the unemployment rate, or inflation.
: We could tackle the trade deficit pretty aggressively if we wanted to, but
: the question is, what would it do to those three numbers? There are countries
: in Europe that have trade surpluses, but their unemployment rate is much
: higher and their growth rate has not been as fast as in our country.
  Gutierrez: 一個經濟體是否成功，還有其他更重要的數據可以參考。例如成長率，失
  業率或是通膨。我們的確可以採取很積極的作法來處理貿易赤字，但問題是，這會對其
  他三項數據造成什麼影響？歐洲一些國家有貿易順差，但是他們的失業率高很多，他們
  的經濟成長也不如我們快。

: SPIEGEL: Are you talking about export-success-story Germany?
  SPIEGEL: 你指的是在出口方面相當成功的德國嗎？

: Gutierrez: I just want to say in general: There are countries in Europe with
: a trade surplus but a growth rate of 1.5 percent compared with our 2.5 to 3.0
: percent growth over the past six years. Their unemployment rate is not 5.7
: percent as in the US, but rather 8 percent.
  Gutierrez: 總的來看，有的歐洲國家有貿易順差，但經濟成長率只有1.5％.
  我們在過去6年卻有2.5到3.0的成長率。我們的失業率是5.7％，他們卻是8％.

: SPIEGEL: Early last year, Chancellor Angela Merkel promoted a trans-Atlantic
: free trade pact with the US. Initially, President Bush seemed supportive of
: the idea, but not much has happened since.
  SPIEGEL: 去年初，梅克爾總理推行一項與美國的跨大西洋自由貿易協定。一開始布希
  總統好像支持這項提議，但是後來卻沒有下文。

: Gutierrez: We had one or two meetings. That is obviously not enough, but we
: are getting started. These are issues that require consistency and patience
: and it is going to require a lot of work. We need to be closer together and
: with our eyes open in terms of what is happening in the world economy. We
: should take a stand on the importance and the value of intellectual property
: -- in defense against those abusing our brands and licenses.
  Gutierrez: 我們舉行過一兩次會議，當然這還是很不夠，但是我們已經起步了。
  處理這些議題時步調要一致，也需要耐性，因為過程中需要很多努力。我們彼此的關係
  要更加緊密，同時也要注意世界經濟體系的狀況。我們應該要對智慧財產的重要性和價
  值表明立場，來對抗那些濫用我們品牌和證照的人。

: SPIEGEL: Are you referring to China?
  SPIEGEL: 你是指中國嗎？

: Gutierrez: Our brands or patents or trademarks are very important for our
: economies. Americans and Europeans need to collaborate on this shared
: interest. Is a BMW produced in South Carolina more of an American car than a
: Ford produced in Germany? There is a lot of shared interest in intellectual
: property on both sides of the Atlantic.
  Gutierrez: 我們的品牌，專利，或是商標對我們的經濟非常重要。美國和歐洲國家
  要在這項共同利益上合作。在南卡羅萊納州製造的一輛BMW比起一輛在德國製的福特
  車，哪一部比較夠資格稱美國車？在美國和歐洲，智慧財產的共同利益非常大。

:
: http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,574126,00.html
: 新聞來源:                                 (需有正確連結)

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) 
◆ From: 59.117.34.176
推 going90:感謝編譯 標題 我代為修正
→ undusted:美國還是沒擺脫"歐美=世界",與歐美不同調=孤立主義的邏輯
→ thigefe:他應該是針對民主黨總統候選人,才反對貿易上的孤立主義
→ thigefe:而針對俄羅斯,想參與歐美制定出來的世界貿易體系
→ thigefe:那就要坐下來談歐美能懂的玩法,還得照規定走
→ thigefe:世界這個詞彙具有多元內容,共產國際,聽且來也很"世界"
→ thigefe:一個世界,各自表述,就差在誰想回應你而已