Re: D-Mase close to deal

[eliczone (C'est la vie)]

※ 引述《RonArtest93 (新阿泰)》之銘言：
: ※ 引述《kckt (CC)》之銘言：
: : http://0rz.tw/xjowX
: : http://0rz.tw/4Fx7l
: : 前灌籃王可能要成為國王的一份子...
: : 是個還不錯的搖擺人大鎖~
: 外國鄉民的評論  我挑幾篇個人覺得還不錯的
: Mason is servicable. He is a veteran player, who has been in the game and
: played with Gary Payton, Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen. And he also played against
: many of the veteran players around the NBA. He also has some skill. This
: ain't checkers, this is chess, and Mason can probably contribute more than
: Donte and Omri in terms of leadership and intangibles. I think Petrie has to
: sign this guy to round out the team. Yes we have a logjam at the SF, but,
: when we have to get past Carmelo Anthony or Lamar Odom or Ron Artest just to
: win a game. It serves us best to aquire many talents(Garcia, Donte, Omri,
: Nocioni) and use veterans like Mason as a measuring stick. If Mason is
: outperforming all but 1 of the sf's we have. Then we know what direction to
: move. The reason we aquire mason is his consistency as a worker. Worst case
: scenario is he shows donte how to be a dominant dunker. I hope it goes
: through.
:                                                        by  USNAVY15
  梅兒子還是有一些用的，他是名老將，曾經和手套、2000萬和雷槍一起併肩作戰過。而
  且他也對戰過許多老將。他還有幾把刷子，這不是圍棋，而是西洋棋，梅兒子也許可以
  在領導和非具體方面比綠綠和orm多些貢獻。我認為Petrie必須簽他來補足球隊，是的
  我們在SF已經人滿為患，但，當我們必須打敗Melo、喇媽和阿泰贏球時，我們擁有許多
  天份還有老將。如果梅兒子只要比所擁有的sf其中一個還要傑出，我們就可以知道前進
  的方向。我們要他的原因就是因為他的穩定性，最糟的情況就是他只能向綠綠展現如何
  成為一名灌將。

: Mason has all the markers of aging badly--injuries, reliance on athleticism,
: refusal/lack of taking jumpers, extremely undersized for the style of game
: that he prefers to play (PF)--and that's why we were able to get him on the
: cheap.
  梅兒子的特徵就是受傷，依靠體能，沒有跳投，極度undersize。他比較傾向打PF，而
  這也是為什麼我們能夠這麼便宜地簽到他。

: I actually have a soft spot for players of his type, and he was actually
: quite underrated at his peak--he's largely played for mediocre to poor teams
: throughout his career, but despite his penchance for mostly playing around
: the basket area, he's actually put up good scoring rates with high free throw
: rates--so he actually could score, and of course he was a former dunk contest
: participant and had the ups to yield highlight reels back then as well. He
: also carries a solid defensive rep, and has guarded SGs and SFs decently in
: the past.
  我對這類型的球員真的沒辦法，他在顛峰的時候被低估了，他大部分的生涯都在不怎麼
  樣的球隊，但盡管他的攻擊範圍都在籃框附近，他擁有很好的得分效率，因為他的高罰
  球率。所以他真的能夠得分，當然他曾經也是灌籃大賽的參賽者。他也有很棒的防守名
  聲，過去守SF和SG都滿不錯的。

: The Mason we're now getting is one that's really on the downslope
: though--he's played less than 60 games the past two years, he's lost the body
: control to finish short jumpers, and he's taking a real backseat in the
: offense. If he's shooting less than 45% (as he was last year) he's
: essentially useless offensively because he's a terrible free throw shooter
: and has absolutely no range (he has a really really funky release that must
: have scared him off from shooting further). That being said, he's still
: quasi-useful--he's maintaining his rebound rate, he really spiked up his
: blocks from the past year, and he still kept up decent defense last year as
: well, so he still has some glimpses of his athleticism.
  梅兒子現在在走下坡，過去兩年打少於60場比賽，他沒有辦法完成跳投，在進攻方面逐
  漸隱形。假如他投射少於45%，他在進攻方面真的沒有什麼幫助，因為他罰球很爛，也沒
  有範圍可言。但他還有另外一半，他還維持著他的籃板率，去年開始他提升他的阻攻，
  防守也保持地不錯，所以還是可以看到一些運動能力的。

: Ultimately Mason is really an undersized big man offensively, because while
: he can score, he has no jumper, few passing ability and few handles. The
: intrigue is if he runs the floor and procures highlight reels, and his SG/SF
: defense is also something that could be of interest, although both obviously
: are not quite what they used to be. He's really a fringe player for us,
: obviously--he can get the spare minutes from Kevin and Reke at SG, and I'm
: sure he'll also pick up leftovers from Garcia, Nocioni and Casspi at SF. But
: I have liked the guy in the past, and I still think he's been a bit
: underrated in the FA market this year (despite his aging badly), so it's an
: okay signing.
  梅兒子在進攻方面真的是undersize的禁區球員，因為他沒有跳投，少許的傳球能力和少
  許的掌控球能力。他可以得到KM和Evans在SG剩下的時間，而且我可以確定他會從Cisco
  、Noc和Orm中取得一些SF剩餘的時間。但我過去很喜歡他，我仍然認為他在今年的自由
  球員市場有點被低估，所以這是還OK的一簽。

:                                                      by  Arby's Roast Beef
: My thoughts:
: Greene and Omri are seen as extremely raw. Petrie (or Westphal or both) feel
: that if one of Noc or Cisco gets injured during the season, we'll have
: practically no depth at the position due to our young players not being ready.
: I'm not psyched on Greene as a prospect, unless he really is working on that
: D or actually starts hitting those 3s he jacks. He just doesnt seem ready.
: And as a low 1st round pick, we shouldnt really expect Omri to get many
: minutes at all, unless he really starts beastin it when he hits the floor.
: Mikki and Miller taking minutes from Hawes and JT, I can understand the
: gripes. But thats because Hawes and JT were showing flashes of being legit
: players. Until Greene or Omri show those flashes my view towards adding a vet
: swingman to the stable is...Whatever.
  綠綠和Orm還太嫩，Petrie或保羅在想如果Noc和Cisco其中有人受傷了，在那個位置就沒
  有深度可言，因為年輕球員還沒有準備好。我不期待綠綠會有多好，除非他真的有在防
  守下苦工或者投進三分球。他似乎還沒準備好，對於第一輪後段選秀，我們不應該期待
  Orm可以有很多時間。Mikki和大米從Hawes和JT搶走時間，可以理解會發牢騷，但那也是
  因為Hawes和JT表現很好。直到綠綠和orm可以之前我的觀點傾向於增加一名鋒線球員來
  增加穩定度。

:                                                            by gunks
: ===========
: 有沒有翻譯團要翻翻看啊  XD

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 58.115.138.237
推 RonArtest93:MAY: 乖　　叫爸爸
推 justid113:我推~ 看到第一行手頓我笑了,我喜歡~
推 hihi29:重建中的球隊 不就是練新秀的最佳時間嗎?
→ hihi29:還簽他來分上場時間喔 囧
推 capalari:還是怪 新秀都不夠時間練了 就算要找老將帶
→ capalari:Mason也不是一個好的示範 他一直都是打體能球
→ capalari:外線又差勁 要找好前輩好老師應該又更好選擇
→ Gunsroses:最後一段 比深度禁區更慘 我想這是標準的Petrie手腕
→ Gunsroses:寧簽個還算有天份和能力的球員 而不願隨便簽個大個來補
※ 編輯: eliczone        來自: 58.115.138.237       (09/19 11:19)
→ eliczone:可能Mikki和SAR的經驗讓他怕了吧...雖然SAR算簽得還OK
→ RonArtest93:其實今年進來的幾個功能性極強球員 可以看出制服組
→ RonArtest93:在選人上面的變化
→ RonArtest93:SROD (助攻)  MASON(防守 體能)  BROCKMAN (籃板)
→ RonArtest93:跟以前執著於球員高度跟多元性的PETRIE來說
→ RonArtest93:改變真的不算小 成效如何開季就能檢證了
→ eliczone:以前可能會樣樣通但樣樣鬆 所以加強所謂的專一性吧
推 RonArtest93:沒錯  就是這樣
推 sssfrost:個人覺得理由應該是核心找到後，不用再去找待培養的球員
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- <

作者: sssfrost (神遊物外) 看板: Kings
標題: Re: D-Mase close to deal
時間: Sat Sep 19 09:37:54 2009

※ 引述《eliczone (C'est la vie)》之銘言：


:   梅兒子還是有一些用的，他是名老將，曾經和手頓、2000萬和雷槍一起併肩作戰過。而
:   且他也對戰過許多老將。

Mason 是在 03 年和 Payton 一起打包，送到公鹿換來 Allen 的。

至於他的價值，我在網路上搜尋到一段話：

This sucks, Desmond Mason has been the "glue" for the team
this year.

http://0rz.tw/f0Qxv


:   梅兒子的特徵就是受傷，依靠體能，沒有跳投，極度undersize。他比較傾向打PF，而
:   這也是為什麼我們能夠這麼便宜地簽到他。

事實上 Mason 生涯前七個球季出賽皆超過 70 場，受到傷病困擾是近兩
季的事。07-08 是拇指韌帶撕裂，08-09 比較嚴重，是膝蓋扭傷。

至於他是不是傾向打 PF？我想比較精確的說法是他傾向在禁區出手。查
82games，07-08 他多半是場上的第三高度，大前鋒配 Villanueva。當
然進攻上不論 Villanueva 或 Yi，都比 Mason 更偏向在外圍出手，但
防手上 Mason 的對位還是以 SF 為主，這也是他目前最重要的資產。

08-09 在雷霆擔任最多的反而是 SG，因為兩個前鋒的位置被 Durant 和
Green 占走了。他的數據在 08-09 下滑的非常嚴重，除了受傷，或許也
與進攻上舒服的位子被搶走有關？


:   我對這類型的球員真的沒辦法，他在顛峰的時候被低估了，他大部分的生涯都在不怎麼
:   樣的球隊，但盡管他的攻擊範圍都在籃框附近，他擁有很好的得分效率，因為他的高罰
:   球率。所以他真的能夠得分，當然他曾經也是灌籃大賽的參賽者。他也有很棒的防守名
:   聲，過去守SF和SG都滿不錯的。

他個人對於球隊是相當忠誠的，當初 Mason 自願長留公鹿，卻被交易到
黃蜂時（那時因為颶風而搬到奧克拉河馬的黃蜂，交易來 Mason 的目的
很明顯是以票房為重），他因為感到被背叛而相當不滿。但他走完合約
後，卻還是願意和幾年來戰績無甚起色的公鹿簽約。所以從這點，或可
推論 Mason 不會因為身處戰績不佳的隊伍，而喪失他對比賽的動力。

至於他的得分效率在 08-09 退化許多：EFG% .435 生涯次低；TS% .456
生涯最低；FTA 2.2 生涯次低；FT% .541。值得關住的是他的 FTA 與
FT% 皆自 04-05 以降逐年下滑。早年他的 FT% 有很長一段時間維持在
七成五至八成，搭配最高 6.6 次的 FTA，才是所謂的高得分效率。

我想一個很重要的關鍵是，Mason 能不能從勢必逐漸下滑的出手數，維
持進攻的效率。

:   梅兒子現在在走下坡，過去兩年打少於60場比賽，他沒有辦法完成跳投，在進攻方面逐
:   漸隱形。假如他射少於45%，他在進攻方面真的沒有什麼幫助，因為他罰球很爛，也沒有
:   範圍可言。但他還有另外一半，他還維持著他的籃板率，去年開始他提升他的阻攻，防
:   守也保持地不錯，所以還是可以看到一些運動能力的。

同意，而且他 08-09 跳投的 EFG% 只有 .285，比惡名昭彰的 Josh Smith
（.349）還要低。至於阻攻..上移季扭傷膝蓋的原因就是阻攻。


以上。我個人對他蠻有好感的（奧克拉河馬黃蜂那年的球員都是），提
供一點點數據作為參考。希望他在國王能夠發揮老將價值，我相信除了
場下領導外，他的防守仍舊有作為關鍵時刻布局球員的資格。

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◆ From: 114.38.23.132
※ 編輯: sssfrost        來自: 114.38.23.132        (09/19 09:41)
推 eliczone:看起來像是一名很不錯的role player 會是爭冠球隊所想要
推 Hinrich:推一個
→ eliczone:也許Petrie真的想要他的領導能力和經驗吧 不然沒理由
推 RonArtest93:推最後一句  這正是我們找他來的原因
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- <

作者: pennykidd (回到青蘋果的年代) 站內: Kings
標題: Re: D-Mase close to deal
時間: Sun Sep 20 09:15:24 2009

Mason's defense, Westphal said, was a major part of the Kings' attraction.

"Depending on what he's able to do physically, he could - best-case scenario
- add a defensive presence to the two and three position that I don't think
we have anywhere else," he said. "I think he's the kind of guy that you put
on the other team's best scorer, and he does as good a job as you have any
right to respect. We don't have anybody who can do that at the two or three.
That's the void I see him having a chance to fill.
"We have a lot of question marks at that position as far as, We think guys
have a chance to be able to develop and do certain things. But outside of
Kevin (Martin) and Cisco, it's more based on potential than track record.
It's nice to have a guy with a track record."

Speaking of tracks, Westphal's team will clearly be on the run. He repeatedly
mentioned going small with Nocioni at the power forward spot.

"I'm very high on (Nocioni)," Westphal said. "Depending on a lot of
variables...Nocioni is somebody who can play the three and play the four but
doesn't necessarily pencil in as absolutely a three or absolutely a four.
He's definitely part of the puzzle, but we just need to see who compliments
each other. What we've declared is that we're going to be a better rebounding
team and a tougher team. Well, I think Desmond has a chance of contributing
in that area and I think Nocioni has a chance of contributing in that area.
What position and how many minutes and who they're playing with and they all
compliment each other? That's all going to get worked out through the
competition."

He also acknowledged the obvious lack of a backup center, with that
deficiency likely forcing the up-tempo style even more. And the lucky winner
of that improvised role, Westphal said, would often go to Jason Thompson.

"I don't think there's any doubt we'll look at Jason quite a bit at the five,
based on our roster right now," he said. "Who else are you going to put
there, size-wise, who can match up against centers? He's going to have to get
some minutes at center. How many that will be or how that all works out?
Again, that comes with the competition these guys will have in training camp
and in the preseason."

And if you haven't noticed the trend here, Westphal likes what competition
can do for his teams.

"To me, when you add talent to a team it really can't be a bad thing, and
then we'll see how it works out when they compete against each other," he
reiterated. - Sam Amick

不是翻譯～

很明顯的 由於替補中鋒的不足 打小球是一定的 加快速度不代表要犧牲失分 能夠找到

在後場防守能力還不錯的Mason 對於國王變陣時刻有一定的彈性（如果Mason健康的話）

綠和小卡的防守目前看來絕對不值得信賴 在SF/SG的位置上 除了Cisco沒人可靠 K$不會

主打他的防守 Evans也還是新秀 May進攻作用大於防守 洛克人能搶到固定籃板就不錯了

所以當需要防守組的時候 你會發現有Mason是還不錯的 （Hawes Sergio哭哭～）


JT Noci Cisco Mason 再加上進攻兵器K$/Evans或Sergio 會是打小球時兼具攻防的組合
--

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◆ From: 123.192.4.94
※ 編輯: pennykidd       來自: 123.192.4.94         (09/20 09:28)
推 domego:Mason會是窮人版的Wells嗎？
推 capalari:不會
推 eliczone:昨天本來要翻的 但沒時間 簡單來說 Orm和綠自己皮繃緊點
→ eliczone:現在國王要的不只是天份還要看到效果 當主軸明顯時(目前
→ eliczone:是JT Hawes KM Evans Csico)剩下的可以用一些即戰力來補
→ eliczone:尤其現在SF堆積這麼多人 只要有機會 就可以打包換禁區
推 eliczone:而且這陣容真的除了矮小一點 攻守都還滿平衡的
推 capalari:能打包就打包啦 我比較有疑問的是 我們為什麼要打小球啊
→ capalari:內線球員堪用的還是可以找找 可是卻找來Mason
→ capalari:理由是? 小球可以打高得分戰? 高得分可以吸引球迷?
推 eliczone:目前就是內線很少堪用的吧...相較之下梅兒子較有幫助吧
→ eliczone:應該是說FA市場 現在禁區長人是稀有財啊...每隊都不想放
→ Tmix:今年我也看不太到有什麼堪用長人會想來國王的QQ
推 capalari:我說的是領最低薪的那一種啦 不是別隊不會放的那一種
→ capalari:像是拓荒者才剛簽豬王 我們找個Swift等等不行嗎?
推 RonArtest93:有MIKKI跟歐白大個的經驗 PETRIE應該不會再簽他覺得
→ capalari:新教練想打小球可以 但是可以不要這種只能打小球的陣容嗎
→ RonArtest93:沒把握幫助到禁區太多的禁區球員
→ capalari:禁區替補只有一個去年報銷的香妹 再怎麼樣向小球靠攏
→ capalari:也不該薄弱到這麼離譜吧 大概是全聯盟最薄的
→ capalari:有時候不想打小球 想來個正常輪替都找不到人
推 RonArtest93:還好啦  看看火箭........
→ capalari:火箭內線球員多的勒
→ RonArtest93:但可以用的也沒比我們多啊
→ capalari:Scola Dorsy Hayes Anderson Pops Landry
→ capalari:我們才三個 全聯盟很難找到比我們少的了吧
→ RonArtest93:hawes JT  MAY  KT  NOCI  greence brockman
→ capalari:Hawes JT May去年還報銷 這陣容連輪替都排不出來
→ RonArtest93:Hayes Landry也不高啊 Pops太瘦 Dorsy沒印象
→ capalari:Nocioni和綠是小前鋒代打 我就是說不要代打正常輪替時
→ capalari:KT還會上場嗎? 去年幾乎整季都沒打了
→ RonArtest93:那KT可以放上來啊  may jt hawes kt brockman
→ capalari:brockman又還沒簽 禁區球員只有Hawes JT May三個人而已
→ RonArtest93:這樣也有五個吧
→ capalari:brockman沒簽約啊 KT真的可以算一個嗎? (苦笑)
推 RonArtest93:其他隊打小球的也沒比我們好多少啦 不只火箭啊
推 eliczone:洛克人簽了哦 KT打4號還OK 保羅有說過了 5號替補沒人沒錯
→ justid113:Dorsy 今年2年級吧(有點忘)是個矮前鋒,印象中大概6-7
→ eliczone:會簽梅兒子是因為他有幫助 不然不會多簽他 譬如你說的
推 GodEyes:我認為不說別的 光合格的替補C都有問題了 JT也只是身高次
→ GodEyes:高可以頂 但還是要有隻專職C來打比較好吧 PF是夠了 JT 妹
→ GodEyes:NO 都OK
推 eliczone:如果有當然比較好 但沒有也只能打小球了 市場上符合我們
→ eliczone:需求的C真的不多了