[情報] Riot對PBE Shaco改動的說法

[doomleika (iSuck)]

http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/22899-statikk-on-shaco-changes

Like to just chime in to help give some insight on the topic.

Firstly, League of Legends is an iterative process. We are constantly testing
different implementations, getting feedback, analyzing the results, and
re-continuing the cycle.

This is never more apparent and true with changes that go to the PBE.
Anything that shows up on there: #1 may be false or incomplete (due to faulty
data mining) and #2 is very much subject to change. As I always say, I would
never trust unofficial sources to be anywhere near 100% accurate to our
actual patch. For these reasons, the PBE and what eventually goes to Live are
very rarely the same.

前言，PBE的改動不見得是最後的決定(這東西是測試伺服)

As far as actually addressing Shaco, I think it's undeniable that the Season
3 changes to the jungle (namely Boxes being an effective way of mitigating
damage taken) have made him more effective. One of the largest issues we've
always had with Shaco's design is his lack of counterplay in early game
situations. Even at the very early points in the game, Shaco has an unrivaled
tool set to gank with (a blink, stealth, and multiple forms of CC on top of
the typical Red Lizard buff). When Shaco gets ahead, there is very little
counterplay his victim has other than to hope Flash is up and they are near a
turret (in fact when gank victims turn to attempt to retreat without a blink
or dash, they are actually putting themselves at a further disadvantage due
to Backstab).

S3讓Shaco更強(別的Jungle滿臉血的打怪時Shaco可以靠箱子坦野怪傷害)

Shaco的問題在前期沒有反制他的手段，前期Gank超威，他肥起來以後更沒有反制
(Counterplay)的辦法，除了flash或是跳技，沒有跳技角色在逃跑是給shaco被動
肛更慘

Our goals with these changes are simply to reduce his early gank
effectiveness. Obviously the first iteration (the one you guys saw on PBE)
where we completely ripped his passive slow was a bit extreme. Even before
the Shaco outcry posts had begun, the internal version of the nerf was
already changed to be a reduction to Two-Shiv Poison's slow at early ranks
(still scales up to 30% at rank 5). As far as the Deceive range nerf goes,
our team is pretty confident that this is reasonable as it makes his Deceive
range equal to Flash which means players playing against Deceive now only
have to worry about the addition of stealth since any jump Shaco can now do,
any champion could do the same by using Flash offensively. To be clear, these
changes are in no way aimed at balancing the viability of Shaco at a
tournament level, they are more aimed at a philosophical level of design
addressing how players should be able to respond to playing against Shaco.

Nerf的目標是降低Shaco前期的威力，E的被動前期Nerf(後期一樣)，Q修成距離與Flash相
同讓逃命的玩家有機會。

你在PBE看到的是第一個版本，完全砍掉緩速被動是有點過分，它們內部的版本已經改成
緩少一點

這不是用在上位比賽的更動，而是為了普通玩家的改動

Anyway, I'm always glad you guys are constantly passionate about the changes
that we're making, it gives us feedback and keeps us in check...but the
majority of the PBE overreaction feels unneeded and melodramatic. I much
prefer threads like this which have a much more open-minded view and are
looking for insight into why a decision is being made and perhaps offer
alternative suggestions, solutions, or counterpoints as to why this may or
may not be a good decision.

結語，跟前言差不多，不要反應太大，PBE就是PBE

--
                                                  這隻我覺得你可以走走看副坦流
                                            買三個火斗，會戰就直接逼到對方面前
                                               對方想繞過你打人就是每秒被燒120
                                                        對方打你又打不死，很威

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 223.142.35.204
推 easygo137812:讓我想到之前小丑造型還特價 =.=
※ 編輯: doomleika       來自: 223.142.35.204       (01/22 12:01)
→ donvito     :隱形+位移角 平衡超難做的
→ donvito     :riot創這個角色真是給自己找麻煩 呵呵
→ newbe2008   :箱子坦什麼傷害@@，給buff怪肛兩下就爆了
推 morphyster  :皮薄阿，其實shaco要玩到專精真的很難
→ zeldazefac  :箱子哪裡坦......
→ iluy        :破壞遊戲體驗
推 focustage   :跳的距離 或是 緩 隨這技能等級成長就解決了吧
→ Gaujing     :...箱子坦  坦野怪?
改了，不知道這樣有沒有清楚點
→ Gaujing     :既然這樣幹嘛不動阿潘 前期沒人能打 後期肥起來一樣
推 focustage   :而且s2不是就能坦了?
→ zeldazefac  :s3的箱子難道有比s2多了什麼蓋子嗎? 用"更"怪怪的
推 arnold222   :S2坦跟S3坦不一樣 S3野怪太痛了
→ arnold222   :能多坦一下 就比其他將狗角更多一些血量了
→ zeldazefac  :除了一開始疊箱子吃buff很op之外 我覺得平常沒啥用
那「點」血量在counter jungle影響就很大了:/
※ 編輯: doomleika       來自: 223.142.35.204       (01/22 12:09)
推 focustage   :可是也怪痛 對盒子的傷害沒有差異嗎?
→ zeldazefac  :shaco自己有被動可以讓野怪失手 出燈籠後幾乎無損將
→ zeldazefac  :也許這邊指的是一等單吃buff的"坦"度吧
→ focustage   :我真的覺得shaco前期沒有撿到人頭 後期真的超醬油
推 zeldazefac  :而且怎麼會沒有反制的手段? shaco最怕一等被人弄
counterplay

你被gank的時候選項基本上都是雙輸



你打超龜->對面拿優勢
你插眼  ->他有n個繞法
你flash ->他再來一次
你跟他硬幹 打不贏
你跑    ->他背刺更痛
推 wulouise    :一等對面也可以保
→ zeldazefac  :一整群人去偷紅偷藍讓他沒疊盒子 一開始就會差很多了
→ zeldazefac  :不過前提是另一邊的隊伍要有共識 偷完紅馬上回自己紅
→ zeldazefac  :不然shaco還是能請隊友幫打後直接去偷你對向buff
→ MyConquesT  :原文不是說肥起來COUNTER手段少嗎? 怎推文斷章取義..
→ zeldazefac  :你剛剛說counterplay 這是建立在"會玩"的人身上吧
會不會玩，Counterplay都很重要

拿Ez來說你可以躲小兵去閃他Q，這叫 counterplay
※ 編輯: doomleika       來自: 223.142.35.204       (01/22 12:18)
推 ElrosHsun   :...蝦口後期只能猥瑣推線還不夠嗎..那改硬一點吧
→ zeldazefac  :說真的打rank到現在 玩的鬼神的shaco沒看過幾個
→ sunofmind   :箱子可以坦三下紅BUFF怪的傷害 其實說真得還滿坦的
→ zeldazefac  :推線偷拆那個真的是有點op 擋也擋不住
推 l1ViE       :那看你的樓層吧  我S3靠小丑 18W 3L 直上18樓
噓 r78213      :前期改爛後期要改強啊
→ l1ViE       :這改動都改到痛點  Q優勢就是在500我爽爽瞬
→ l1ViE       :降100距離 很厚的牆不知道可不可以在跳過去GANK
→ l1ViE       :E的緩速是比較還好 因為常駐紅BUFF 主要是Q
→ zeldazefac  :我一樣靠小丑 23勝4敗  看來我比較有份量
→ sunofmind   :低端的薩科後期比高端更難玩 因為每次去分推 隊友就
→ sunofmind   :開戰 根本沒辦法偷推 只能會戰找機會秒後排
→ zeldazefac  :我自己打野怪反而都是用本體坦  箱子輸出
→ zeldazefac  :前期讓箱子輸出比你讓他被野怪噗滋溶化cp值高太多了
→ iluy        :op的是布甲 不是shaco
→ sunofmind   :現在可以橋位置打怪 你讓箱子先輸出2~3秒 再讓箱子坦
→ sunofmind   :箱子照樣可以打滿傷害 薩科本體還可以少承受2下傷害
→ sunofmind   :當然比S2更好JUNGLE
→ zeldazefac  :ez躲小兵這個動作不就是"會玩"嗎 普通人只會傻傻跑啊
當下你有選項
Shaco 搞你不論你怎麼選最後贏的都是他
→ vythxsheep  :砍前期不給後期是啥小 分身改成三隻好嗎?
PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE PBE
※ 編輯: doomleika       來自: 1.170.15.14          (01/22 12:30)
推 drummers    :我也覺的蝦扣砍前期不補前期 會變成EVE最黑暗時期
→ drummers    :不補後期*  會變得跟之前EVE黑暗時代一樣慘
推 ooooooo286  :不會到那麼慘吧?  可能大比賽不會看到
推 vi000246    :shaco明明就江滿臉血 盒子掛掉後 要一刀一刀砍耶
推 AriaYang    :閃現+隱身同一招就超強了 還被動緩跟恐懼+傷害加成
→ ooooooo286  :可是會玩的SoloQ還是可以搞爆人阿
→ vi000246    :沒重擊的話 紅藍buff砍多久啊 都直接開大招吃了
→ zeldazefac  :現在大比賽好像就沒看到過了  砍了之後.....(ry
→ AriaYang    :其他角色不也一刀一刀砍 蝦口算吃超快的了
推 ooooooo286  :他現在就算砍這樣也不會跟之前EVE一樣慘
→ ppppp367    :這改的有點超過 自己玩小丑 前其沒滾到雪球 就輸定了
推 FrienDx     :我記得箱子坦力已經被nerf過了不是嗎?
推 wulouise    :有得坦就是有差啊 可以一個buff少吃三四下
推 iljapan61   :砍爛一點
推 thinkDie    :雷葛爾  EVE SHACO   下一位病人 老鼠你準備好了嗎?
噓 dannywhat   :現在這樣不好嗎  又不是人人都玩得好
→ Gaujing     :26
噓 zjps3407    :純噓辛吉德到現在還不nerf 直接在你家洗兵你還沒辦法
→ zjps3407    :不是更破壞遊戲體驗??
→ zeldazefac  :樓上請低調  不然又一隻神角要被nerf了
推 vergilmir   :箱子蠻坦的阿 會恐 還能撐幾下 很坦了不是嗎?
推 Ommmmmm5566 :Q跟閃現一樣短玩屁... 這樣就不能從藍區跳上下路了啊
噓 Scorpio9418 :so funny~
推 Homeparty   :RIOT既然要削弱他前期,怎不考慮BUFF他後期呢?
推 Radia       :樓上, 這就跟物價上漲一樣, 只漲不跌的
推 absgpc      :把被動緩拿掉，那補個暈技或減cd 啊!
推 jabari      :這簽名檔@w@  是火抖神教推廣文嗎??
→ egg781      :不要咧~我就希望蝦口消失
推 LuckyDay    :shaco前期沒殺到人 後期還需要玩嗎 看來又要放冰箱了
→ rayba       :shaco第一輪buff沒有收割到人頭 or 隊友先被gank的話
→ rayba       :那一場很高機率直接廢掉 , 就專門虐菜而以
→ rayba       :第二輪buff幾乎所有人都能無傷jungle了 , 沒拉開的
→ rayba       :shaco同等裝滿血打得贏誰啊 ?
→ rayba       :而且第一輪黃金時間隊友不做球會變成shaco要放棄人頭
→ rayba       :or 賭上buff搞塔殺 根本不划算