推 lidiya0930 :推翻譯姬 11/08 05:18
→ gox1117 :難道一鞋三水要被改了嗎 11/08 05:19
推 frank123ya :給我面具升級板 11/08 05:22
推 Rivendare :可以讓紅水開始買3送1嗎 11/08 05:28
推 yeaaah :買阿卡莉可以不要送內褲嗎 11/08 05:35
推 lisanna20 :特化控場的道具 感覺是很容易偏離riot原本理念的道具 11/08 05:35
推 howar31 :阿卡莉可以不要內褲嗎？(喂 11/08 05:36
→ a2364983 :原文這一串會一直置頂更新 有興趣者可以追蹤一下 11/08 05:41
→ calvin301301:控場!? 難道會出現巫仗 11/08 05:42
→ a2364983 :說不定還大炎上勒 TW領先全球(? 11/08 05:43
推 LatteXS :有吹箭嗎XD 信長 11/08 07:25
推 mkiWang :巫仗、吹仗，退魔刀 11/08 08:43
推 bojohn :希望有可加增加技能範圍的道具 感覺很酷 11/08 08:43
→ howar31 :樓上不太可能 11/08 09:50
→ ciwewa :特化控場道具也可以提高CC時間吧 相對於韌性裝 11/08 09:54
推 TWemperor :我覺得應該給一個直接減物/魔傷的裝備 %數或數值都可 11/08 10:20
→ TWemperor :不然現在穿透扣的太多 物防裝很沒意義 11/08 10:20
推 TWemperor :你買個冰心蘭頓 在以後的穿透面前大概只剩降攻速效果 11/08 10:23
推 hardyuse :感謝情報分享 已收入情報區 11/08 18:33
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- <
作者: colmash (col) 看板: LoL
標題: Re: [情報] Preseason Itemization Preview
時間: Thu Nov 8 11:40:08 2012
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=31152189
原文討論串
http://lol.zones.gamebase.com.tw/forum/60895/topic/95410709?g=e775
素人自翻
I’m Xypherous, a Technical Designer here at Riot Games. I’ve been working a
bit on the goals for itemization changes as we head into the preseason,
focusing mostly on specialization, player self-expression, and adding new
gameplay patterns in the game. We wanted to fix a lot of the existing
problems that players have with items and try to add more depth in terms of
itemization. Let me go over the major goals we have for the preseason item
changes:
我是Xypherous,任職於Riot的遊戲設計師.我這陣子的工作目標是S3季前道具相關的變動,
這些變動重視的焦點大多放在特化玩家表現,及增加新的打法上.我們想要修正現有道具設
計上的許多問題,並增加道具選擇上的深度.接下來讓我們看看將在S3季前修正的主要目標
.
Clean up / Reworks
We have some items that need a lot of love and some items that simply don’t
have a place in the current framework in the game. We either made these items
relevant for a specific purpose or removed them if they were too problematic
to balance. Some super-niche or narrow-scope items have been remade to work
on a greater variety of champions.
整治/重製
我們有些物品需要大量的注目,而其他某些物品在現有的遊戲環境內沒有出場的機會.我們
將把這些物品調整到一個有特殊定位的地步,不然就是乾脆的移除掉這些物品-如果這些物
品在平衡上太過困難的話.某些太過強勢或是太過特化的物品也將重製來讓它們能適用在
更多英雄上.
Specialization
There aren’t enough items to allow each champion to really feel like they
have their own unique build. We also want to add more items that allow you to
specialize for the particular game that you’re in. We’re adding items to
give players in each role alternate primary builds that fill out their teams
better. If your carry needs to do more AoE damage, he has an option for that.
If your primary AP caster needs additional CC capabilities, there’s an
option for that, too.
We want players to have a degree of specialization in terms of playstyle, and
to buy items that complement that playstyle rather than simply giving them
the highest raw stats.
特化
如果想要讓每個英雄都有獨特的出裝方式,現在物品是遠遠不足.我們新增了許多物品來讓
你針對不同遊戲特化你的英雄.我們也提供了新的物品來讓你的英雄特化,以強化你的英雄
在隊伍的定位.如果你們隊上的後期角需要更多的範圍傷害,他能有對應的物品選擇.如果
你們隊上的主力法師需要額外的場控效果,也會有對應的物品.
Gold and Statistics Pass
We’ve done a complete gold and statistics pass on the entire item shop. Many
statistics have been reevaluated to better reflect how much gold they are
worth at a particular stage of the game. Premiums have been adjusted across
many items to reflect how difficult they are to build or how niche they are,
rather than their raw statistical strength. Items that grant early
Resistances / Attack Damage / Attack Speed have all been reevaluated in terms
of strength.
花費金額/屬性的重新平衡.
我們完成了每樣物品的金額/屬性試算.在遊戲中不同階段,每個屬性的價值都被重新估算
過.許多物品的費用都被重新調整,以反應出他們有多難被合成,或是他們有多泛用且強勢,
而不只是單看他們的屬性強度來作依歸.遊戲早期的抗性/物傷/攻速等屬性也被重新評估
定價以符合其威力.
Breadth and Depth
One of the most important things we tried to accomplish during the preseason
was to ensure that your mid game items didn’t pigeonhole you into certain
choices later in the game. We’ve also endeavored to give mid-tier items more
late game options so that you don’t run into dead-ends as the game
progresses. If you build Warden’s Mail in the mid game, you shouldn’t feel
compelled to buy Randuin’s Omen every game. We wanted to make sure that at
each stage of item progression gave you upgrade choices later on.
深度和廣度
我們試著克服的事情中最重要的一點是保證你中期的物品不會成為你後期選擇保留的選項
.我們也努力讓許多中期物品有更多的後期升級選擇來讓你不至於在遊戲進行中進入購物
的單行道內.如果你中期買了 守望者鎧甲 ,你不至於每次到後期都被迫要買 蘭遁之兆 .
我們要保證遊戲中早期每個階段的物品都有後期的升級選項能讓你選擇.
We know that some of your favorite items might be affected by the coming
update. I’ll be discussing many specific examples in depth leading up to the
patch. If you’d like more information on a specific change, reply to the
thread and I’ll answer your question if I can.
我們了解某些你們所鐘愛的物品可能會在接下來的更新中被影響,我將在下面深度討論一
些更新後的特殊的例子.如果你想知道對於特定變更的資訊,請回文在討論串內,我會盡量
回答你的問題.
(到這邊是Xypherous原本在論壇上發的文章,下面是他回應在討論串內,之後又整理回第一
篇原文的兩個特定範例.)
------
Since lots of you were interested in diving immediately into some specific
details, I've decided to bump up the first item preview post. This is posted
later in the thread as well, but I thought I'd edit the OP for visibility:
Today I’m going to talk about Armor Penetration and its effects on the
scaling of our Attack Damage Casters class.
Let’s take a look at one of the core items for this class – The Brutalizer:
(這邊開始是Xypherous後來補充的特別範例,他將兩篇文章合並成一篇)
既然你們對特定的細節討論有興趣,我決定貼出第一個物品的預覽文案.這個文章原本是在
討論串中的,不過我將原文修改來讓更多人能看到.
今天我鄉討論物理穿透(物穿)效果和他對物攻技能角的影響.
先讓我們看看這些角色的核心物品-殘暴之力.
The Brutalizer
+25 Attack Damage
UNIQUE Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction
UNIQUE Passive: +10 Armor Penetration
The Brutalizer has long been the trifecta of Attack Damage, Armor Penetration
and Cooldown Reduction that these characters lean on for early game
dominance. However, Flat Armor Penetration as a statistic overall has been
pretty overpowered in compensation for the fact that items with the stat don’
t typically scale at all into the late game. This turns these characters into
early-game gambit characters, out to dominate the early game as quickly as
possible before they become irrelevant.
殘暴之力
+25物理傷害
(唯一被動)-10% CD
(唯一被動)+10物穿
殘暴之力一直是早期物理技能角三個重點屬性的唯一且主要的來源.然而固定物穿在統計
上到了後期跟其他物品相比威力會遠遠的落後.這樣的情況讓這些角色成為了壓注在遊戲
早期的角色.他們必須在盡早就壓制住敵人,不然到了後其他們的存在就變成無關緊要.
To adjust for this, we’re making two major changes:
1. Flat Armor Penetration and % Armor Penetration values are generally being
lowered, but now Flat Penetration is calculated AFTER % Penetration
For example: Let’s say I have 50% Armor Penetration and 20 Flat Armor
Penetration versus a target with 120 Armor.
Currently, on Live, I would ignore 20 of his armor via Flat Penetration (100)
and then 50% of the remainder, leaving him with 50 Armor.
After this change, I would ignore 50% of his armor (60) and then 20 of the
remainder, leaving him with 40 armor.
In this manner, we can make sure that penetration values can be
cost-effective for both late game and early game because now you have an
option to synergize the two statistics together if you need to pierce large
amounts of armor.
2. Brutalizer builds into more than one thing
Quote:
The Black Cleaver
+45 Attack Damage
+10% Cooldown Reduction
+10 Armor Penetration
Passive: Dealing physical damage to an enemy reduces their Armor by 5%
for 6 seconds. This effect stacks up to 5 times on the same target.
為了修正這個狀況,我們作了兩個主要的修正.
1.固定物穿和比例物穿的帳面數值都被調降,但是現在固定物穿改在比例物穿之後計算.
舉例來說,如果我有50%的比例物穿和20點的固定物穿,而我的目標有120點的裝甲.
依現行的遊戲規則,我會先穿透對方20點裝甲(120-100),剩下的裝甲值(100)再穿透
50%(100*50%),也就是目標會被當作有50點裝甲值計算.
在改版之後,我會先將對方的裝甲穿透50%(120*50%),也就是剩下60,再扣除固定物穿的20
點(60-20=40),目標會被當作只有40點裝甲值計算.
在這情況之下我們能夠保證固定穿透的數值在遊戲早期後晚期都有其效益,因為當你要穿
透擁有高裝甲的目標時,自計算上兩種穿透的組合是能夠有協同效果的.
2.殘暴之力現在能升級成更多物品
黑色切割者
+45 物傷
+10 CDR
+10 物穿
被動-當造成物理傷害時降低對方的裝甲5%,持續6秒.這個效果對同一個
目標最多可以堆疊五次.
Let’s dig down into this item a little more. First off, the Black Cleaver
now triggers off all physical damage. This means that spells and abilities
can trigger the passive. In fact, let’s look at a couple of our AD casters
and see how this item works differently on them:
Pantheon, the Artisan of War
Spear Shot: Will trigger Black Cleaver once on a single target.
Aegis of Zeonia: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magic damage.
Heartseeker Strike: Will trigger Black Cleaver three times in a cone, as it
does physical damage to the target three times.
Grand Skyfall: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magic damage.
Garen, the Might of Demacia
Decisive Strike: Will trigger Black Cleaver once, on a single target.
Courage: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does no damage.
Judgment: Will trigger Black Cleaver up to 6 times, in a circle around him,
as it does physical damage 6 times.
Demacian Justice: Will not trigger Black Cleaver, as it does magical damage.
讓我們更深入的討論這個物品.首先,黑色切割者能被任何種類的物傷給觸發.這代表著不
管是法術或是技能都能觸發這個被動.讓我們拿一些物傷技能角作範例來探討這物品的作
用.
戰爭之王 潘森
(Q):飛矛對單體觸發黑切特效
(W):盾擊是法傷,不會觸發黑切特效
(E):搓刺會在前方扇行觸發三次,因為會攻擊前方的敵人三次.
(R):大絕不會觸發,因為是法傷.
蒂瑪西亞之力 蓋倫
(Q):沉默砍會對單體觸發一次黑切特效
(W):加防因為不會造成傷害,所以跟黑切無關
(E):轉轉能夠觸發六次,降低蓋倫身邊全部敵人的裝甲,因為轉轉會對身邊的敵人造成六次
傷害
(R):大絕不會觸發,因為是造成法傷.
So now, AD casters attempting to deal with highly armored opponents have a
way to partially nullify the armor of targets they choose to fully commit to
with all of their skills. However, they make a trade-off here; while Black
Cleaver is highly effective at negating the effect of enemy armor, the
Cleaver itself does not provide all that much Attack Damage as a whole. So
your skills will be slightly less effective on targets with high health and
low armor, simply because they’ll be doing less overall damage. Black
Cleaver is incredibly effective at shredding targets with lots of armor, but
doesn’t really do well trying to kill a mage with Rod of Ages, for example.
What about Last Whisper? How does this work with Last Whisper?
Last Whisper grants you % Armor Penetration while Black Cleaver reduces the
opponent’s armor.
Let’s look at an enemy with 400 Armor. Black Cleaver will reduce their armor
by 25%, leaving them with 300. Last Whisper will allow you to ignore 40% of
the remaining 300 armor, which means their effective armor against you will
now be 180.
所以說,現在物傷技能角想要對高裝甲的敵人造成傷害時,能夠將技能全部丟出去來降低敵
人的裝甲.但是這裡也有他們要權橫的點.黑色切割者本身能夠大量的穿透敵人的裝甲,但
它本身並沒有提供大量的物傷.當你面對高血量的敵人時,你的技能效果就會相對的變差,
因為它們所能造成的整體傷害是較低的.舉例來說,黑色切割者在剃除對方裝甲上有著驚人
的效益,但對於出了時光之杖的法師作用可能就不大.
那最後耳語呢?這對最後耳語的作用呢?
最後耳語提供了比例穿透,而黑色切割者提供削弱敵人裝甲的能力.
以敵人有400點裝甲為例,黑切會降低他們的裝甲25%,讓他們剩下300點裝甲.最後耳語會讓
你無視敵人剩下的裝甲中的40%,所以敵人對你而言只會剩下180點裝甲.
Last Thoughts
We hope that this change helps create a smoother scaling curve for many of
our AD casters without causing them to utterly dominate and kill everyone.
While these changes allow them to ignore armor much more effectively, the
characters in question will be making heavy tradeoffs by simply not dealing
as much raw damage as they could have with a B.F. Sword build against soft
targets. Additionally, these iterations of The Brutalizer and The Black
Cleaver allow our more spell-focused ranged carries like Corki or Graves to
have a viable alternative to Last Whisper that will give them great utility
if they find themselves on a team with lot of physical damage characters.
Thanks for reading and stay tuned for more!
最後的想法
我們希望這樣的變化能創造一個較平滑的曲線給物傷技能角而不讓他們完全的宰制每個敵
人.這些變化讓他們能夠較有效率的穿透敵方的裝甲,但同時有留思考的空間讓他們去購買
暴風之劍系列道具來對軟皮的敵人造成大量的傷害.除此之外殘暴之力和黑色切割者的傳
承也讓其他以技能為主的遠程物傷後期角有除了最後耳語外的替代方案,能夠對有大量物
傷角色的隊伍提供更大的效益.
-Xypherous
--
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功能太多列不完啦!!
--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 219.85.64.11
推 kusokong :GAY倫要發威啦 11/08 11:43
推 philiphsu :蓋倫要疊五把黑切了嗎 (誤 11/08 11:44
推 streetmark :開始練蓋侖(無誤 11/08 11:44
推 johnnyjaiu :悟空感覺也不錯... QER都吃 11/08 11:45
推 tp950016 :蓋倫要OP了 塊買啊 11/08 11:45
→ bernon :18116 11/08 11:46
→ johnnyjaiu :蓋倫只剩450了 不買嗎? xD 11/08 11:46
推 JellyLee :先推翻譯 11/08 11:47
→ johnnyjaiu :基本上 翻譯是沒在op的 @@ 11/08 11:47
→ JellyLee :我是認為 每個人的翻譯就算OP 也是值得推 11/08 11:48
推 pokei200 :GAY倫專武 11/08 11:48
鱷魚專武才對
AOE:
EE=>2個AOE stack,E2有怒氣的話還會額外多扣更多裝甲
Q=>1 stack
對單:
AW(W取消普攻CD,兩個或三個判定,看怒氣)=>3 or 4個stack
裝甲疊不夠多和鱷魚打和裸奔一樣XD
推 TheZeta :我要真正的新地圖啦~~~! 11/08 11:48
※ 編輯: colmash 來自: 219.85.64.11 (11/08 11:52)
→ ccode :短期內不會有新的5v5地圖，period 11/08 11:50
推 marcoyao :X的 當初買GAY倫3150 11/08 11:51
推 allenwei :蓋倫op的op跟翻譯op的op是不一樣的op 11/08 11:52
推 solo0724 :J4 Q扣防 再配這也不錯 11/08 11:54
推 davy012345 :蓋倫OP nerf ire plz 11/08 11:54
推 umiruss :話說..S2結束會延期那篇都沒人po耶0.0 11/08 11:55
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/241271
因為在預期內,不算新聞XDDD
推 fff417 :J4 疊比較慢 悟空快一點 11/08 11:55
推 cyu1990 :等一下 這黑切不是唯一被動？可以疊？ 11/08 11:55
推 CChahaXD :拜託來個守城地圖O_Q NG打累了跟朋友玩守城多好 11/08 11:56
→ snowoffish :降低%物抗是疊加的?? 11/08 12:03
→ sea214001 :守城有點難 被破了就得改版...資源消耗嚴重QQ 11/08 12:04
推 enterbenson :大炎上之書跟無上雷暴還不錯~ 11/08 12:05
→ w3160828 :我論達瑞斯每下都逼近真傷的OP可能性... 11/08 12:15
推 rockmaxdash :Gay輪進去轉一圈 然後AD就可以收割了 11/08 12:15
推 as920909 :好運姐表示: 11/08 12:20
推 TWemperor :不用玩坦克了 玩ADC和AD大男就好 11/08 12:24
推 hivgay :1337和黑切一飛衝天了 11/08 12:26
推 warden259 :J4普攻有發動的話 會一次疊兩層嗎 11/08 12:29
→ warden259 : ^被動 11/08 12:29
那個好像是法傷<--錯的
推 hivgay :最爽的應該是MF 開戰就用大絕刷掉敵隊25%AR 11/08 12:47
推 skybug1424 :庫奇的E表示 11/08 12:48
推 warden259 :是物傷 最早之前是法傷後來改了 11/08 12:49
→ w3160828 :J4改物傷改很久了 還能吸血勒 11/08 12:50
跳兩個字的話應該會是兩個debuff.XD
推 jujustine83 :推翻譯 11/08 12:50
→ TWemperor :S3讓穿透更OP 坦除了控場 沒有用了啊 11/08 13:05
→ TWemperor :而且上路雪球會更無解 大家都去玩AD大男跟ADC就好 11/08 13:05
→ TWemperor :上路被壓出個防裝 對面出個黑切就讓你變廢物 11/08 13:05
→ TWemperor :坦克已死 歡迎來到ADC&AD大男聯盟 11/08 13:06
→ TWemperor :RIOT乾脆都把防裝砍掉好了 皆大歡喜 高興了沒? 11/08 13:07
1.固定物穿和比例物穿的帳面數值都被調降,但是現在固定物穿改在比例物穿之後計算.
你不能用現在的數字就直接判定改的好還是改的差
數字沒出來之前說都說不準
→ ilohoo :現行已經有120種以上的物品了...再加上去好累 11/08 13:40
→ ccode :也會有被砍的物品，不用擔心 11/08 13:43
推 stormNEW :完了完了 蓋倫要被nerf了 11/08 13:46
→ Fuuuck :以後第一件坦裝都是好戰了....好戰要變國民裝了 11/08 14:14
推 snowoffish :撐血就對了! 11/08 14:16
阿如果實裝後穿透數字全部砍到剩2/3,還有全撐血的價值嗎XD
我相信riot裡的數學家沒智障到不去考慮這種事...
※ 編輯: colmash 來自: 219.85.64.11 (11/08 14:25)
推 hardyuse :完整辛苦了 已收入情報區 11/08 18:36
→ hardyuse : ^翻譯 11/08 18:36
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作者: wulouise (在線上!=在電腦前) 站內: LoL
標題: Re: [情報] Preseason Itemization Preview
時間: Thu Nov 8 14:07:42 2012
※ 引述《colmash (col)》之銘言：
我把這篇的29個riot posts都看完了
不一一提及，提幾個比較有印象的
(請搭配Col上一篇服用)
1.Tiamat(海神斧) is weeird, and weeeird!
總之他的機制很奇怪，Xypherous會確定他跟BC的互動正常
2.Tamat(不是海神斧):潘森將重返往日美好時光
3.Kayle擴散是魔法，BC不會AoE shredding
4.ARP物穿符文會被nerf(因為%往前調)最後傷害輸出會接近
5.Kayle擴散是魔法(很重要說第二次)
6.BC黑切:團隊取向(如果你是大男)，他是百分比降低目標傷害，並非穿透
LW :自私取向(當你是刺客或是AD carry)，只有穿透，對團隊無法有助益
此兩樣道具的設計前提:你要拿AD來換穿透，單格道具AD會比較低
7.要是悟空買了LW+BC很高興進去轉，結果對面沒疊裝甲疊hp，因為6.所以悟空打不太痛