Re: [閒聊] jiji對兩場敗場的看法

[silveriii (多說無益)]

https://www.facebook.com/LoLSaintvicious
Saintvicious
I honestly expected clg to beat frost, we rolled them in scrims when I was on
team. Blaze said they trained them though oh wells

我以為CLG能打贏Frost，我還在CLG的時候團練都打爆Frost。
Blaze說他們有好好訓練過，我勒~


※ 引述《king20031114 (GOD~~)》之銘言：
: Some run downs of our 2 games today, and improvements to be made (that i
: remember of still off top of my head)
趁我還記得時記錄一下今天兩場比賽可以改進的地方

: game 1:
第一場

: -Top got ganked due to first ward failure and snowballed pretty hard
上路第一隻眼插得不好被滾雪球


: -hotshot devote too much resources to top when we planned to do other things
: @ mid/bot/invades (and they ended up being too obvious too, so enemy jungler
: always counters, and they even die for it once and gave karthus much free
: gold)
HS在上路耗費太多心力以致中路/下路/侵略將狗都作得不夠(而且動作太明顯而被對方
jungler抓到動向counter)
他們(應該是說VB跟HS)甚至還被死哥撿到尾刀

: -as always there are points where i shouldve pushed more advantages when i
: had the upperhand in mana/creepwave position. which in a lot of situations i
: had, and already out cs him or match, but his karthus and i shouldve
: attempted to make a dive here and there.
我沒有掌握在魔量/小兵位置上的優勢
錯失掉幾次塔殺死哥的機會


: -doublelift didnt buy frozenheart (really important) fast enough and tunneled
: on more damage when all we need is to survive and we WILL do more damage
doublelift的冰心出得不夠快，讓我們能夠有更多時間輸出，我們只要活著就能造成
更多傷害

: -We split randomly when grouping and having face offs few times and costed
: here and there
陣容太過分散
這則看不懂他想表達甚麼


: -at a fairly decent early dragon fight hotshot and chauster bloodlust and
: initiated 1~2seconds too early and caused a 1 for 3 bad teamfight for us
早期小龍戰，HS跟老查腦衝早了1~2秒開戰造成1換3的結果


: -we should have attempted to fight earlier and not let the game drag long
: when we have a early/midgame team comp vs their late game teamcomp
我們的陣容是適合打早期逼戰的組合，而對方是打後期的組合，不該拖太久

: -i got split off during a chase down and as a team we reacted poorly and i
: bloodlusted for sivir and got egged too fast in unfavorable position
有一次被追殺時我和團隊分開了，而團隊沒有作出好的反應，然後我腦衝上了Sivir
然後在一個很爛的位置變成蛋

: -jax became an unstoppable force. :<
Jax is unstoppable :<

: game 2:
第二場

: -i pressured anivia in extremely hard and i shouldve lead hotshot and roam
: together to make a play. (dive mid or dive anywhere to force objectives, or
: invade jungle. at some point i 1v2ed skarner anivia and they got fucked, but
: we didnt make anything happen out of it.) (this is really important and we
: must practice to do as a team (mostly me and hotshot) as much as possible and
: is what will win us games
我對冰鳥造成很大的壓力(應該是指大前期)，我應該跟HS一起roam
(塔殺某個人或搶buff/小龍逼戰)但沒有。

而我們沒有利用我單殺了蠍子跟冰鳥後帶來的優勢

我們一定得再練習團隊合作(尤其是我跟HS)，這會幫助我們贏得比賽

: -*probably most important thing we need to improve on that can SWING games*
: hotshot is not as experienced as saint or any old jungler that is good at
: making these plans, and what we used to do is saint makes these possible
: calls, so i think i need to really start practicing these with hotshot
這可能是最重要的一點，能夠扳回遊戲局勢的一點。

HS在將狗這方面並沒有SV那樣有經驗。SV會想出一套行動，而我們之前習慣讓SV安排
這些行動然後跟著他說的作，以後必須和HS練習這點。

: -olaf was doing excellent vs jax, and game was going smooth, a big turning
: point happened right after when we had the pressure everywhere. my body slam
: bugs out on anivia wall and i die for free with jax ganking (that i wouldve
: survived 100% if not for the bug and wasted a LOT of their time for the jax
: who is already behind.)
Olaf對Jax作得很好，兩方情勢並沒有太大的起伏，轉捩點發生於我們在各線施加壓力時，
中路一次酒桶的E被冰鳥的牆給擋住了，造成我的free die，然後我的隊友在追殺Jax
時花了太多時間。


: -body slam bug gets me killed and lose all my momentum, gets hotshot killed
: top and he loses his oracles, AND we lose top tower.---> this is major
: turning point that lost us all momentum and pressure everywhere
酒桶的E bug害我掛了以後就失去了許多好時機，讓HS在上路帶著真知被殺，然後上路
塔跟著被拆掉--->這是這場遊戲的轉捩點，讓我們失去了在各線施加壓力的機會

: -doublelift randomly died 5 seconds after chauster told him to becareful and
: back but he didnt listen fast enough
doublelift不知道為啥死了，五秒前老查還叫他回家


: -we roam around 2nd major turning point is when we got split AGAIN and gave
: up free baron, by this time game is really really fucked~!
第二個轉捩點是在大家四處遊走時陣容又再度分散，導致被神速吃巴龍，之後我們就整場
被強＊了


: Both games goldwise/cswise/objectivewise we are all pretty much even vs them,
: but the errors that causes the momentum loss and gave them momentum is what
: swings the game for both these 2 games really fast
兩場比賽在金錢/小兵數/objective(指紅藍buff小龍巴龍或拆塔等等)其實是五五波
問題出在'勢'上

: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: 第一場
: 第一個眼的失敗，hs浪費太多時間在上路，對方趁jiji沒魔推，DL太晚出冰心，一推不好的團戰造成失敗
: 第二場
: 嘗試給冰鳥壓力。
: hs不像那些有經驗的jungler。
: 我只看幾個關鍵詞 沒有全翻 有漏什麼在請各位翻譯 感謝

欸可能有一些地方翻得詞不達意，尤其是momentum這個字好玄，感覺只能意會XDD


--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 36.224.83.149
推 ggrenic     :momentum可以想成士氣或是氣勢吧
推 deathmark   :知道sv的好了吧
推 That5566is78:酒桶的機動性沒有發揮出來Q_Q
推 Blitzcrank  :所以酒桶那是bug E 不是fail E
推 Deconation  :JIJI其實也可以練習當Caller阿~~@@
→ Blitzcrank  :jiji不可能，他都不講話的...
→ deathmark   :m5、clg.eu也常常逆風但金錢不輸，觀眾可以期待逆轉
→ deathmark   :可是clg.na這兩場，錢沒輸太多，卻感覺無法翻盤
→ deathmark   :這就是他說的氣勢吧
推 Deconation  :因為通常JIJI都不說話 可能JIJI有些想法是很棒的 可
→ Deconation  :以一試 但是JIJI不講出來 就顯得很可惜
→ frankie30432:冰鳥前期有被jiji打回家或者是血少
→ Deconation  :JIJI如果能參與討論 也許NA隊又能更上一層@@
→ WarIII      :幹麻學sv跟老闆互幹阿 然後就被火了 默默的比較好XD
→ WarIII      :我很難想像clg hs會安靜的等call來 不如讓hs好好學
推 migyo       :sv跟HS和老查互幹的結果就是被換掉...
推 winklly     :酒桶的e是固定距離嗎？ 是的話那次應該是bug
→ WarIII      :酒桶E是撞到第一個敵人會停 有傷害
→ hasroten    :酒桶的e不是固定距離吧  印象中
→ WarIII      :但是冰鳥牆沒有血條 應該會衝過去
→ tp950016    :會不會是酒桶E過去的時候 冰鳥牆剛好頂到?
→ admboy      :牆先出來 酒桶才E過去 然後E到牆上就卡住彈回來
推 damnedfish  :第一場小龍，NA兩個先衝然後對方jax跳後排，先衝的
→ damnedfish  :沒回頭，以致自切陣型最後輸了小籠
→ admboy      :小龍戰就衝太早 DL還沒到就先衝了 然後jax直接跳jiji
→ smallcoll   :doublelift不知道為啥死了，五秒前老查還叫他回家 XD

Saintvicious fb
I honestly expected clg to beat frost, we rolled them in scrims when I was on
team. Blaze said they trained them though oh wells

我以為CLG能打贏Frost，我還在CLG的時候團練都打爆Frost。
Blaze說他們有好好訓練過，我勒~
※ 編輯: silveriii       來自: 36.224.83.149        (08/11 01:42)
→ Blitzcrank  :下路那次吧，DL時常這樣，該退不退就掛了
→ hasroten    :這是SV的回合!!
推 tp950016    :SV專業引戰!
→ frankie30432:SV又出來了XDD
→ damnedfish  :SV補刀XD
推 ndbs        :SV離開就很少看CLG比賽了...HS很努力但是差太多
→ hasroten    :HS現在比賽真的就只有camp上路一招...XD
推 zerosky1943 :看好jiji
推 king20031114:hs真的還要再練練了 然後我覺得clg要多溝通~
→ frankie30432:現在jiji實況被blaze的打掛XD
推 Murasaki0110:SV XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
推 kltageless  :HS 將狗真的還是很爛-.-
→ frankie30432:SV TSM被打掛補刀 CLG被打掛補刀 再來呢XD
→ kltageless  :CURSE 現在爛成這樣SV還有臉出來補刀喔
→ tp950016    :Curse有打贏韓國隊一場 所以可以囂張XD
→ frank123ya  :至少CURSE有贏一場喔 顆顆
→ admboy      :至少crs有贏braze一場XDDD
→ Murasaki0110:jiji實況azubu這兩隻太猛了吧
→ admboy      :科科 大家都想一樣XDD
→ frankie30432:當然猛阿 不過那個TF是下路的AD喔XD
推 kltageless  :所以CLG要打包回家了對吧!?
※ 編輯: silveriii       來自: 36.224.83.149        (08/11 01:52)
推 ourear      :聽說他們會繼續在韓國準備S2
推 kltageless  :喔喔 不過我的意思是想問說他們這比賽應該結束了吧?
→ kltageless  :枉費打EU的時候出了一個很屌的戰術害我很期待今天...
推 lisanna20   :SV說的是實話 但是實話通常都不中聽就是了
推 gigan       :sv講的是實話 frost的實力的確比其他隊差一些@@
推 ourear      :SV是中肯的機歪人
推 king20031114:請問S2的比賽什麼時候打呀
→ lisanna20   :SV最後那句話口氣應該是幫clg說話吧
→ lisanna20   :blaze說他們有特別訓練過 好吧
推 kltageless  :10/13開始
推 enchyi      :歐洲下星期 北美下下下星期
→ frankie30432:應該是賽後訪談的時候說的
推 kltageless  :E大說得應該是 區域賽吧?
推 no321       :歐洲Gamescom 北美PAX Prime
推 deathmark   :sv真誠實
→ tp950016    :sv:Katarina gonna be a good jungler for solo que
→ tp950016    :next patch :D      15分鐘前說的
推 yeo12       :真假XD
→ yeo12       :優點在哪?
→ tp950016    :你問他啊(我覺得是troll)  鬼才知道這人在想什麼XD
推 frank123ya  :現在的jungler不是都流行HARD CC?
→ frank123ya  :難道傷害型JG再起?
→ MGSnake     :可是說HARD CC 但是龍女跟蒙多還是常出耶...
推 trigungo    :蒙多雖然沒硬CC  可他全能 GANK也頗強
推 tony70721   :hard cc好gank solo Q有優勢
→ tony70721   :蒙多龍女等 比賽中能GANK時機沒那麼多
→ tony70721   :可以等虛弱好再上 而且現在都講求吃的快
→ tony70721   :hard cc中 沒幾隻吃的算快的0.0
推 qe70r178rl  :SV上次也說藍寶會是很棒的將狗(?
→ bluejark    :藍寶r GANK很強但吃怪太慢了就輸一半
→ nyo812      :現在的jg流行吃怪快傷害優的 hard cc類型的jg通病在
→ nyo812      :自體輸出不足+清怪沒傷害型的快