※ [本文轉錄自 KevinLan 信箱]
作者: KevinLan.bbs@Horner.mba.ntu.edu.tw
標題: Re: What Mahler symphonie to begin with?
時間: Sun Jun 13 13:08:49 1999
發信人: jgreshes@netaxs.com (jason and jill), 看板: recordings
標 題: Re: What Mahler symphonie to begin with?
發信站: Philadelphia's Complete Internet Provider (Sun Jun 13 04:55:12 1999)
轉信站: Horner!news.ntu!spring!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.g
TOMAS SCH烰 (tomas@mbox323.swipnet.se) wrote:
:
: I like to buy records with Mahler, but I do not know were to start.
: What symphonie is best to start with??
:
I'll leave others to give you one-line answers. This is the text from my
"New Mahler Listeners" web page:
From jgreshes@netaxs.com Sat Jun 12 16:49:02 1999
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jason Greshes <jgreshes@netaxs.com>
To: jgreshes@netaxs.com
Mahler: Where to start?
One of the most frequently asked questions I see on Usenet is people
saying that they would like to get into Mahler's music but have no idea
where to start. The usual response is to tell them to get the Fourth
Symphony, and never, never, never listen to the Sixth as your first Mahler
symphony. I hope this page can offer people suggestions in a little more
depth than that and let people find the best starting point for them,
rather than having every new Mahler listener dutifully appear at Tower and
point grunting at Szell's recording of the Fourth.
Instead of making one blanket recommendation, I am going to
go through different "types" of people and where they might want to start.
Everybody that gives recommendations on usenet does the same thing, except
that they don't tell you where they are coming from or what the basis of
their recommendation is.
Why am I doing it this way? B/c the proper entrance to Mahler's music will
be dictated by the person's background. Someone who is primarily a
listener to lieder will not want to start with the same symphony/song etc.
as someone who is looking for a good recording to blast their stereo. So
instead of a one-size-fits all approach, I'm going to try doing a
different-strokes-for-different-folks guide.
1. Lieder listeners
This isn't such an odd place to begin. Mahler's early works are all
derived from lieder, and his songs are some of the most performed and most
loved of the post-romantic period. If you have heard Mahler first as part
of a recital or a cd of various works, I would suggest you start with the
Sony "Leonard Bernstein: A Portrait" 2cd collection of Maher's lieder. The
album features Bernstein at the piano with the vocalists Christa Ludwig,
Walter Berry, and Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau--some of the best of the analog
era. The set includes Songs to Poems from "Des Knaben Wunderhorn", Four
Songs on Poems by Friedrich Ruckert, selections from "Lieder und Gesange
aus der Jugendzeit" (Mahler's earlier songs), and Lieder eines fahrenden
Gesellen. The cd thus includes Mahler's major lieder works, excluding the
Kindertotenlieder. If you prefer lieder with orchestral accompaniment, I
suggest you find the EMI France release featuring Janet Baker and Sir John
Barbirolli performing Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen, Kindertotenlieder,
and the Ruckert-Lieder. The set also includes Das Lied von der Erde with
Kletzki & DFD, and a few songs from Des Knaben Wunderhorn from
Popp/Tennstedt. The Baker/Barbirolli pieces are available separately, on a
new EMI re=release, but the separate cd costs more than the EMI France
set. (So why pay more AND miss out on a good Das Lied?)
The Bernstein set is quite good, however, and although Bernstein isn't
Gerald Moore, he was no amateur pianist. Also, the set includes full texts
and translations.
>From the songs, the next jump is to the most
song-influences symphonies. In fact, Mahler early symphonies incorporate
material from his song cycles. Mahler's First Symphony incorporates
(without voice) the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen. The work can be
problematical for the new Mahler listener as it makes extensive use of
parody (one movement is a mournful reworking of Frere Jacques), but the
way the songs are worked into the orchestral fabric is fascination. The
dreaded Fourth (no, it isn't dreaded, it's lovely) forms, along with the
2nd and 3rd, Mahler's Wunderhorn trilogy, as each features songs from the
Wunderhorn cycle. The Fourth is the most pleasant and most straightforward
of the three, as well as shortest and the most classically proportioned.
The Third is gargantuan, huge, massive, and beautiful. Simply a gorgeous
work. For a couple of weeks I did nothing but listen to the Third. Then
for the next week I did nothing but listen to the final movement of the
Third. At present, the Third is my favorite, so you'll have to excuse the
drooling. The final movement of the Fourth was originally intended to
conclude the Third, but Mahler realized that it would be dwarfed by the
remainder of the Third. Rather than end such a massive work with a
significantly less-weighty (although beautiful) song-setting, Mahler
instead composed a more-fitting end to the Third and then composed the
Fourth, writing the work to end properly with the setting chucked from the
Third. Please don't let this in anyway berate the 2nd. The 2nd was the
first Mahler symphony I ever heard and one hearing made me a Mahler fan.
The 2nd not only features a Wunderhorn song, Urlicht, as its pivotal text,
it also features a reworking, for instruments only, another song from the
Wunderhorn cycle, Des Antonius von Padua Fischpredigt, which serves as the
2nd's Scherzo. The 2nd is worth getting just for this movement, with
celebratory moments quickly shifting to sarcastically threatening, and
then back again to dancing. The first movement funeral march and the
closing setting of Resurrection are usually considered the signatures of
this work, but I consider the Scherzo to be one of Mahler's masterpieces.
(For a remarkable modern reworking of the Scherzo, try Luciano Berio's
Sinfonia. Berio takes the Scherzo, works in a collage of quotes from other
composers, coats the movement with spoken text from street placards to
Beckett, all while preserving the spirit of Mahler's movement.) From the
Wunderhorn cycle one continue chronologically through Maher's symphonies,
although lovers of the voice might want to proceed directly to Das Lied
and the 8th. Although Mahler may not be one of the big three (Schumann,
Schubert and Wolf), he was an extremely
strong composer of lieder, and many of his works never stray far from
song. In fact, understanding their basis in song is one of the keys to
successfully appreciating the early symphonies. Oh, and for those who
haven't heard it, Anne-Sophie Von Otter released in late 96/97 a
recordings of Mahler and Zemlinsky lieder w/ orchestra. It's an
absolutely stunning disc. And the Zemlinsky tracks are jaw-dropping good.
Modern music listeners Mahler is a bridge between the 19th century and
20th century.
2. For the modern music fan.
It is entirely possible to start in many places and find yourself at
Mahler.
Mahler's most obvious connection, modern-music wise, is to Schoenberg,
Webern, and Berg. Mahler was an early patron of Schoenberg's music,
performing it himself and encouraging others to do so. Berg's music is an
attempt to combine the sound-world of Schoenberg and Mahler. All three
supported the performance of Mahler's music long after Mahler's death.
Mahler served as honorary President of a new music society founded by
Schoenberg and Zemlinksy (another composer greatly influenced by Mahler
whose works, since the early 80's, have suddenly appeared on disc. Try the
Lyric Symphony and Zemlinsky's lieder for good measure. The Lyric
Symphony, for instance, was modeled after Das Lied).
For an exploration of a thoroughly modern sound-world, try the 5th-7th
Symphonies. The 5th is the most popular of the three, and the most varied,
stretching from the booming beginning funeral march to the delicate
adagietto to the rousing, baroque-influenced Rondo finale.
As for the Sixth, I am tempted to say screw the naysayers and begin with
the Sixth. If your background is in twentieth century music, there is no
reason to begin anywhere else. The Sixth is a stunning work, with
orchestral textures carved in steel and granite. No other work exists so
strongly in the world of the inhuman (try Bernstein's approach to the
first movement) and the emotional. The Sixth is a tough work to perform
and record. It is quite easy to become lost in the orchestral effects and
miss the emotional content of the work. Then again, the emotional content
is so strong that for decades it was one of Mahler's least performed
symphonies despite being the most "classically" constructed. For a very
good performance that points out the architecture of the piece, try
Boulez's recording on DG. For an emotional performance, try Barbirolli's
EMI set or Bernstein (either DG or SONY.)
The Seventh, to me at least, exists in the same world as the Fifth and
Sixth, but something is missing. Boulez may have been trying to work out
the problem, but instead seems to have produced a recording widely
regarded as the most lifeless Mahler recording in years. Bernstein's
1960's recording has just been rereleased by SONY and is the best option
if the 7th interests yous. (A little-known but excellent recording of the
Seventh is Gary Bertini's recording, available only as an EMI Import,
although cut-out copies are appearing at $5 in places like Tower and HMV.
If you see it at $5, buy...it will be the best $5 you spend all year. If
you see at full price, too, don't worry. It's worth it.)
Finally, try the 9th, which in ways was Mahler's attempt to internalize
Schoenberg's explorations while remaining within the
romantic/post-romantic genre. The first and fourth movements are the most
lyrical. The interior movements are the most interesting for those coming
from the 20th century music perspective.
Generally, if you're into the noiser, experimental modern music you be
happiest starting with the 5th-7th. If, on the other hand, you are more of
a fan of the Gorecki, Taverner etc. spritual composers you are more likely
to get a good start with the 9th.
3. Beethoven or Bust
Okay, so you are Beethoven fanatic and interested in Mahler. Where do you
start? Well, which is your favorite Beethoven? Here's a little chart for
you:
Beethoven Mahler
Third Symphony Fifth Symphony
Ninth Symphony Second Symphony/Third Symphony
Sixth Symphony First Symphony/Third Symphony
Fifth Symphony Fifth Symphony
Any even-numbered Fourth Symphony
Of course these are just generalizations, but I did try to put some
thought into it; ;)
I want my stereo to ROCK! Sigh...yes, some people to get started
listening to Mahler because they have heard Mahler can really rock their
stereo. Okay, here you go: Solti's recordings of the 2nd and 8th will
make quite a lovely racket on your new 10000 watt stereo. Crank and enjoy.
After a while, though, try listening to the music a little bit. For a real
sonic experience, try Abbado's recording of the Third. And then, once you
are truly able to digest the glory of Mahler, while still gosh wowing on
the stereo, try Lopez Cobos's recording of the Ninth. Wow, sonic and
(some) intellectual depth.
After that, take a look at the other suggested recordings lists and
join the rest of us low-fi peons for some of the better interpretations.
4. From Bach to Mahler
A bit of a jump, yes , but don't tell that to Mahler.
Bach was the classical version of the Velvet Underground. For a long time,
not that many people listen to Bach, but each one composed. Mahler's own
interest in Bach stemmed from counterpoint, the art of building music from
separate but related themes bouncing from one instrument to another (okay,
okay, that is a very simplistic, but this guide is constructed to be read
by anyone, not music majors. (In fact, if you are a music major and are
still reading this, you might want to go over to the bursar's office and
start talking refund). Mahler was entranced by counterpoint. He believed
it occurred naturally, where different birds sang different songs at the
same time and there was separate sound of the river, and the wind, etc.,
and as his symphonies should encompass the world, so must they include
counterpoint. As mentioned above, the Fifth and Ninth include examples of
Mahler at his best.
>From the Not-So Modern Moderns
Now what could this mean? Simply
that some of the Twentieth Century's more "conservative" composers show
the influence of Mahler. Britten and Shostakovich, for example,
acknowledge the influence Mahler had on their work. Copland, who switched
back and forth from austere modernistic works to the frankly populist,
also acknowledged the influence of old Gustav. Mahler can also be "heard"
in the German and Austrian composers of the 20's and 30's, such as
Goldschmidt, Korngold, and Ullmann, and, of course, Zemlinsky, all of
whose works are now being rediscovered and recorded as record companies
search for new but accessible works to present to the public. These
composers all largely rejected atonal and 12-tone music, or only leapt
occasionally into such styles.
If you are approaching Mahler backwards from the above, maybe by delving
into Korngold orchestral works from starting with his film music (if so,
you really MUST get K's violin concerto), there are few suggested starting
places. First of all, the Ninth, as the Ninth is more string-based than
other Mahler symphonies and thus a bit more on lush side, even if it is
lushly depressing ;), and from there you might try the Third. If you like
Shostakovich's 4th, Mahler's Third is a good place to start, also. The
Third can be hard to digest due to its length, but that length includes
many dramatic passages. The regular soundtrack listener probably would be
best able to traverse that landscape--most classical-background listeners
have trouble as they lose the structure of the Third. The soundtrack
listener, not being as concerned with structure, might not have the same
difficulty. I just want pretty music As I mentioned, Maher thought the
symphony should encompass the world. The world isn't all prettiness and
sunshine, so neither are Mahler's symphonies. Even the Fourth, credited as
being the sunniest, still has moments of Mahlerian darkness peaking in the
corners. Still, you might be able to put a nice package together using
Mahler's slow movements. Some of Mahler's most attractive slow movements
are the adagietto from the 5th and the final movement of Third. Once you
have listened to the conclusion of the Third, listen to the final movement
of the Ninth. (This is assuming you want to only listen to movements
rather than full works. This isn't the way I would go through Mahler, but
it is a way that a significant number of people proceed). The adagietto of
the Fifth is calmly beautiful, the Third is much like the adagietto but
has some darker moments, while the finale of the Ninth is Mahler's embrace
of death. Doesn't sound pretty to you? It is.
Finally, some common Mahler listening problems: These are some of the
more-cited problems people list regarding Mahler:
1) Everything is too long! In a way you can blame old Ludwig for this.
Beethoven took the symphony and turned it from a tricycle into a chariot.
The symphony grew in length to where a single movement was commonly as
long as classical symphony. The menuetto and trio turned into the scherzo.
Mahler joined Beethoven in expanding the structure of the symphony, seldom
using the standard four movement structure. Beethoven first admitted the
voice to the symphony, and Mahler was more than happy to run with that
ball, using the voice in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 8th symphonies. As Mahler
used an orchestra of Wagnerian size, his symphonies were Wagnerian in
size. One of the reasons the 4th is suggested so often is that it is the
most manageable in length. If this is your main problem with Mahler,
perhaps starting with the Fourth is best. Another thing you might try is
start with Mahler's lieder and then move to the Wunderhorn symphonies.
While the Second and Third are a couple of the longest of Mahler's works,
they are grounded in song and listening to the songs first may help you
follow through the symphonies.
2) Mahler is too bombastic/depressing!
This is a hard one to address as it is an aesthetic evaluation. All I
would ask is that keep in mind that Mahler, more than any other composer,
attempted to express the full expanse of his identity through his
symphonies. If they seem neurotic, it is because Mahler was neurotic. If
they seem emotional, it is because Mahler was emotional. If you simply
cannot listen to his symphonies because of this, again I would ask you to
attempt taking smaller bites through the lieder. If that doesn't work, you
just might not be the proper state of mind to appreciate Mahler. You might
never be in such a state of mind, or you might find yourself diving in a
few month or years. Not liking Mahler doesn't indicate any kind of
character defect, after all. ;) If some of Mahler's sound interests you
but the emotional content is just too much, or there isn't something you
don't like in the expression, then you might want to leave Mahler behind
for a while and explore some of the other post-romantic composers. As I
mentioned, Korngold, for example, and Zemlinsky "sound" quite Mahlerian
but with different emotional outlooks.
3) I want to get all the symphonies at once, but it is too expensive. Try
the above budget guide, at
http://www.netaxs.com/~jgreshes/mahler/budget.html
4) The neighbors complain! Get good headphones! ;) Seriously, the most
common difficulties people have with Mahler is the length and emotional
content of Mahler's work. The length issue can be addressed by starting
small and developing an ear for Mahler, and then graduating to the longer
pieces/movements. The emotional issue really isn't one that can be
addressed. Mahler either speaks to you or he doesn't. If he doesn't, it is
best to not torture yourself trying to make yourself like Mahler. Mahler
isn't brussel sprouts, something you must have for proper nutrition. Just
keep Mahler in mind and someday you may find yourself in a better mood to
appreciate him.
Jason
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