OK, I am forced to say something. I am forced to do things I don't like.
: 那也是一種「反覆」，不過貝多芬的反覆，一向是要「到底的」，也就是說，
: 他為了奏鳴曲式的嚴整，寧願犧牲觀眾的耳朵和新鮮感，明明聽一次就很了的東西，
: 對不起，還是要照規矩來，再聽一次，你要問為什麼？「奏鳴曲式」！！
: 貝多芬的曲式之工整，乃音樂史上第一把交椅，我們在學校裡上曲式學，
: 這只是一般的通則，貝多芬對奏鳴曲式的運用，其實非常的自由，你所說的這些
: 規矩，只是後世的理論家們，整理歸納出來的，讓我們比較容易瞭解的規則。
: 事實上，貝多芬的交響曲有很多都不是你所說的這種形式，硬要拿這個理論來套，
Are these two paragraphs written by the same person?
The word "sonata form" was invented by Czerny, after Beethoven's death.
Of course Beethoven did not know the "definition" of sonata form then.
This means Beethoven did not follow the "textbooks" while compsing, because
there was no textbook on "sonata form". (of course he did not need one!)
Now, who said this?
: 他為了奏鳴曲式的嚴整，寧願犧牲觀眾的耳朵和新鮮感，明明聽一次就很了的東西，
: 對不起，還是要照規矩來，再聽一次，你要問為什麼？「奏鳴曲式」！！
"sonata form" is never a good answer.
The "general practice"(loose sense) of composing in classical period
(for those really great composers) often made things look like "sonata form".
Many rondo mov. at that time can be considered as "sonata rondo", for
example.
This tells us the word "sonata form" is not easily defined. There
is a great music scholar who claimed that Mozart did not use "sonata form"
in his 1st mov. of piano concerti. When he said that, he has some
definition of "sonata form" in his mind.
Now you want to call that 2nd mov. of Beethoven "sonata form".
Go ahead. I don't mind. I was writing things in a more "layman" way
because I was writting for laymen.
I don't find Suskind's words wrong. But if you would
like to show how much you know, do it as you want.
How about if I say "Newton's 2nd law is wrong" while another
say it is right? That law is wrong if you know quantum mechanics.
But it is right for the purpose of most non-physicists.
This depends on what you think is right or wrong.
it is tricky, always.
Of course I have never thought of teaching modern physics on BBS.
And I never liked to dig other person's words out and critize on them.
I apologize to most NTU students because I never want to go into
this deep. There are things we don't have to know because it is not
correct timing.
Hsuan-Yi Chen
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