[YESNwork]Short Hops: The Joba/Wang Connection

[ILuvDumpling (let's play some cardz)]

http://0rz.tw/dCJXE
這篇蠻長的 最後結論就是記者建議把Joba推去當Setupman,小王進輪值
目前是Yes頭條

副標:
The Yankees have miscast two of their best arms
05/28/2009 11:30 AM ET
By Jerome Preisler / Special to YESNetwork.com

An 18th round draft pick in 2004, he was a right-handed, flame-throwing
starter with an attitude who shot up through the team's farm system as a
starting pitcher, made his Major League debut the next year in both starting
and relief roles, and eventually became a late-inning reliever due to another
player's ineffectiveness out of the bullpen. As the 2006 season approached,
the team continued to see him as an eventual starter, but his particular
mental and physical makeup, and the team's short — and longterm needs, led
them to review and eventually revise their plans for him.
His name was Jonathan Papelbon and, as the team's closer, he has been
critical to the Red Sox's success over the past several seasons.

When Joba Chamberlain burst upon the New York baseball scene in 2007 as a
lockdown eight-inning setup man, the energy he brought to that role took the
city — and in some ways the entire country — by storm. And with good
reason. Here was a kid throwing fastballs in the upper nineties and
occasionally seared into the triple digits, complimenting with 89 mph
sliders. Here was a kid who attacked batters with a bulldog mentality and an
arm that backed it up. Here was a jolt of emotion that made the Stadium roar
and set opposing batters on their collective heels as they flailed their way
back toward their dugout. One, two three.

The eighth inning was Joba time. And as he left the mound, it was time to key
up "Enter Sandman."

It is now time to end the debate about Joba Chamberlain, to stop equivocating
about his Yankees future to the detriment of the team. Joba should be
returned to the bullpen's eighth-inning setup role and groomed to replace
Mariano Rivera as its closer. He is Rivera's best, and perhaps only,
realistic successor.

Rivera has one year remaining on his contract after 2009 and has said he will
retire after it expires. When that happens, it will do more than end an era
of dominant, unsurpassable greatness at his position. It will leave the
Yankees grappling with a paradigm shift unlike any they've faced since the
start of the Joe Torre era.

If the maxim that winning teams are built around pitching is true, then it
can be argued the New York Yankees have built from the ninth inning on back
since 1997, when Rivera became the bedrock of their pitching staff. In the
decade and change since, Rivera has been the one consistently reliable
element of the team's winning formula and its single most valuable player.
The assumption that late leads will be protected when Rivera enters the game
— even in the biggest games, the postseason games that count the most —
 instills a unique confidence in every player and coach's mind. That is a
luxury few teams possess, and that no other team in the history of baseball
has enjoyed for the length of time — or to the degree — that the Yankees
have since Rivera's emergence.

The departure of Rivera is so dreaded in the Yankees' universe it appears
that few choose to consider its ramifications in a clear, levelheaded light.
Instead they focus on the cost of acquiring top-tier starting pitchers
through free agency and decide slotting Chamberlain into the rotation is a
viable, inexpensive alternative.

With his inconsistency and recurrent tentativeness on the mound as a starter,
Chamberlain who many inside and outside the Yankee clubhouse view as a
solution to the Yankees' bullpen problems and the logical heir to a closer
role that Rivera will eventually vacate, has become yet another problem that
has to be solved if the team is to succeed — now and in the future.

And a future without a closer who at least approaches Rivera's success rate
is there for us to see now, as evident as flowers in a field — or perhaps
"weeds in a field" would be a better metaphor. In the Yankees' own division,
both the Toronto Blue Jays and last year's AL East champions, the Tampa Bay
Rays, are stumbling toward irrelevance largely due to bullpen inefficiency
and, most specifically, lack of a reliable closer.

Rivera, whether through his participation or waiting presence in critical
games, is the exclamation point at the end of the sentence that reads, "The
Yankees win!" When he retires from baseball. along with the uniform number he
is the sole remaining player to ever wear, the sentence will be left to trail
off into indeterminacy with an ellipsis followed by a question mark.

Or to put that starkly in view: "The Yankees win ...?"

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and manager Joe Girardi have repeatedly
indicated the organization has made its decision about Chamberlain. But in
every aspect of life, success is contingent on intellectual flexibility, an
ability and willingness to reevaluate positions as evidence that challenges
them appears and circumstances change and evolve. When we unwilling or unable
reassess important decisions, we have succumbed to inertia and are in the
process of fading into decay.

It is fitting and somewhat ironic that Chamberlain's future is tied to that
of another Yankees asset-turned-problem, Chien-Ming Wang. Even as they
reconsider their decision to shape Chamberlain into a member of its starting
rotation, the Yankees should stop allowing a proven starter, two-time 19-game
winner Chien Ming Wang, to languish in the bullpen waiting for mop-up and
garbage-time roles. He is out of Minor League options and, barring another
rehab stint on the disabled list, must remain on the Yankees' 40-man roster.

Wang's two recent performances out of the bullpen, the first against the
Philadelphia Phillies on May 22, his second in Texas Wednesday night, make it
clear that he has nothing more to rehab but his stamina and confidence, and
this can — and when we speak of confidence, must be — accomplished at the
Major League level. His lost velocity has nearly returned, and his control
and command are on the way.

Wang's current status, so aptly detailed by my colleague Jon Lane (who
disagrees with me on Chamberlain) is untenable. To let it abide would be
organizationally myopic and irresponsible.

Wang is not just a sinkerball pitcher, but a 29 year-old power sinkerball
pitcher who, between 2005-2007, and then into his injury-shortened 2008
season, built a reputation as the best in the sport. This makes him a premium
commodity at the new Yankee Stadium.

Wang's entire game is premised on keeping the ball down. And just ask a
longtime Yankee pitcher — and the rotation's sole holdover from the
championship years — how vital that can be for the home team.

"It's simple: If you leave a ball up and they hit in on the barrel, right now
it's a home run," said Andy Pettitte after his most recent start at the new
Yankee Stadium. He went on to add, "You have to get the ball down, especially
if you are not overpowering. If you don't have, or if you are not throwing,
overpowering stuff, you cannot let your guard down ever out there right now."

After Wang's impressive two innings of work in Texas, catcher Kevin Cash
said, "Sinkerballers are contact pitchers, rollover, ground-ball type guys.
He got swing-and-misses on his sinker, that's how good it was [Wednesday]. I
know everybody harps on the velocity, but the big thing is the movement. You
can pitch with that kind of movement at 88-91."

Girardi would underscore Cash's remarks with these words: "That's as good as
I've seen (Wang) this year," Girardi said. "That's the Chien-Ming Wang we've
seen so often. That's what we want to see from him. That's a huge building
block."

The Yankees must open their eyes to what is before them, and listen to their
own words. They must formulate a cohesive, expedient plan that simultaneously
reinserts Chien-Ming Wang into their starting rotation (along with CC
Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and Phil Hughes), and that moves Joba
Chamberlain into the eighth inning setup role to solidify the current bullpen
and finally crown him the heir apparent to the greatest closer of all time.

The less time wasted, the better.

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 123.204.137.29
推 APEXAPE:Wow!
推 forever215:大概是 Joba 局數限制原因才會換的八
推 angor:如果是真的~小王的屁屁這次要坐穩輪值壓!!  Joba火球回來吧!
→ shongzcwea:呵呵
推 jwencmc:無論如何.....小王加油......
→ forever215:這樣對嗎？把一個能當先發的拉去牛棚
推 eogreen:@Q@
※ 編輯: ILuvDumpling    來自: 123.204.137.29       (05/29 12:35)
推 Aswind:如果是真的 小張心裡面不知道會不會賭爛小王/可是 這樣擺
→ ILuvDumpling:補幾個字「記者建議」
→ angor:To 4ever215...王也是能當先發的吧
→ Aswind:的前提是 大帝真的能夠繼續保持下去....但真的嗎？
推 mel1234:這樣擺的前提是~~小王要有愛阿！沒有愛還是乖乖牛棚吧
→ angor:.......「記者建議」.......
推 sycstyle:希望這樣+1   想看牛棚的火球張阿
推 in79418:這樣王才有機會把ERA快快洗低阿...
推 forever215:to angor...目前板上的人不大都希望王繼續待在牛棚嗎
推 donnylee:這個建議很久了~從開季不久到現在!
推 Aswind:小張投的還OK啦 勉強過得去 關鍵還是在休斯 靜觀其變.....
推 jeff0323:比較想看到火球JOBA XD
推 stgo:to 4ever215: 文章不是舉Papelbon的例子嗎? 哈!
→ stgo:我也比較想看到能盡量催的喬巴~
→ stgo:況且，王前三年的成績難道不能證明他可以當好先發嗎？(懷疑)
推 rod007:Joba要進牛棚是季末的事  況且現在的成績當先發並不差
→ rod007:不要忘記今年他是五號先發
→ ILuvDumpling:大概需要能人快速翻譯一下.裡面是提到一些CL接班問題
推 gerkk:Joba似乎有用球數過多的狀況? 吃不了長局數?
→ xephon:這是記者建議
推 Hank545:我想看100mile的速球/90mile滑球!!
推 ps20012001:目前能接替7 8兩局 好讓mo安心上來 轉頭看看牛棚 =.=.
→ ps20012001:這的確不失是個好提議 不過 Joba 會願意嗎 @@a.
→ ps20012001:先發 跟中繼 畢竟是兩個境界的 能得到的榮譽也是..
推 leewatch:我覺得不可能，小老闆不只一次說過要讓Joba先發，吉總不
推 risesun:支持Joba當救援，雖然Joba吃的局數不夠長，用球數過多
→ leewatch:會也不敢不聽老闆的話，何況現在投的好好的戰績又攻頂
→ risesun:可是Joba三振能力夠強，關鍵時刻這種投手比較適合當救援
→ leewatch:王已經擺明了就是沒愛，幹啥讓他跟Joba換位置?
→ risesun:有李維拉+小張 兩位王牌救援  先發投手就無後顧之憂了XD
→ risesun:王只是暫時不被重要 可是能保證現在的先發能夠維持下去嗎?
→ leewatch:AJ的三振能力也很強，最近也被操很大，你會想換他嗎?
→ iverboy:王不能習慣牛棚角色,兩者的調整不同
→ risesun:休斯能否繼續威能下去,Burnett的傷是否會復發,都需要注意
→ risesun:AJ吃的局數跟經驗比Joba都來的好 看的出來誰比較適合先發
推 leewatch:牛棚本來就是免洗的，先發穩定根本不用去變動
→ leewatch:所以Joba現在的狀況不好，吃的局數不夠?
→ leewatch:至於大帝目前的狀況以五號而言是OK，沒理由不讓他繼續投
推 airphone:這只是記者建議，怎麼那麼自嗨
→ risesun:Joba目前狀況非常好,沒錯就是吃的局數還不夠多
→ risesun:最近六場只有 一場吃七局 兩場吃六局  其他都才四五局
→ risesun:吃的局數少就是牛棚需要多燒點，這樣子非常危險
推 lovecmgirls:這種狀況應該不到非常好吧..普普通通而已
→ risesun:別雞蛋裡挑骨頭阿 防禦率才3點多 已經不好了嗎?
→ risesun:況且我有點出吃局數不多的缺點了不是嗎?
推 hiro1221:不需要，照吉拉迪的用法，我不相信到七月這五個人都還能
→ hiro1221:虎虎生風...
推 Godzilla28:應該是joba有局數限制 遲早都要把他拉回牛棚 而解決
推 calladito:慢慢等吧... 按這樣的操法要進DL應該不難
→ Godzilla28:現在6名先發的方式之一就是先拉joba回牛棚
→ Godzilla28:缺點就是最後 還是得要把joba拉回先發補足局數
→ Godzilla28:這樣上上下下先發後援二頭跑 對joba來說不是好事
→ Godzilla28:雖然有些年輕強投 確實剛開始也有類似情況 二邊換
→ Godzilla28:反正joba遲早季未會進牛棚 現在早進是為了解決王的問題
→ Godzilla28:缺點就是joba.... 也要去適應這樣的轉變 並不公平
推 agoodjob:樓上講的沒錯！
推 jdtrue:沒想到Cashman釣魚功力蠻不錯的
→ KABUKI10:推樓上 XD
→ agoodjob:釣魚就跟筆記和灑花一樣可笑！哈哈！
推 leaf28:這篇跟上一篇有一點點衝突...
→ penco:張先發投得沒之前中繼好
推 Picoro:Job去牛棚... 我總覺得是近一個月內不大會看到的事 ...
→ Picoro:不過要真這麼做 , 是否可能跟Joba上一場球速沒出來有關 ?
推 decorum:MO退休，CL誰來接？若不買一隻，目前似乎也只有小張可以了
推 Shywei:隔壁那隻阿 他延長合約談不攏 說不定有機會 科科
→ jdtrue:隔壁的話  搶他們的LF比搶他們的CL實際得多
→ xephon:這是記者建議
→ xephon: 這是記者建議
→ xephon:  這是記者建議
推 milerful:能先發的去牛棚的確是浪費 不過不會比把小王當敗處還浪費
→ momogo11:不用怕 照冏拉迪的操法 .......
推 tlw0709:其實這點大家都知道吧...Joba的能力 有K有球速有氣勢
→ tlw0709:而且其實當個closer 我覺得還比當先發輪值更像個英雄
→ tlw0709:Joba的先發 也不能95~100mile連發阿 幾乎都在90~95
推 devilsky:可惜英雄不能當飯吃...sp跟rp的薪水跟貢獻有差
推 philluke:1把能先發的放牛棚? 阿王建民就不是能先發的媽?
推 raygod:王建民可以先發,其他人也可以先發阿,有相關嗎?
推 ZMTL:位子
→ roea68roea68:說真的 Joba是先發的料 可是很多人很愛說一切球團為
→ roea68roea68:主?? 如果是這樣 洋基的現況我想Joba進牛棚是最好的
→ roea68roea68:說穿了 重視程度不同而已
→ raygod:確實是球團為主阿,Joba當SP是為了球團未來...
→ siliver:如果王繼續在牛棚出賽表現良好,乾脆就接setup好了.
推 crystallai:套一句你們常說的話 王證明有先發的能力，為何要擺牛棚
→ shongzcwea:因為他現在還需要更多的好表現贏回信心
→ raygod:先卡位先贏~~~
推 kengichen: 先發料擺牛棚 v 先發料當敗處
推 newedifier:可是我也覺得這樣比較好耶 joba先發都只剩91-92哩
推 violadepp:應該是需要更多的愛吧！
→ violadepp:或者是需要總教練這種操SP法多一點！！
→ newedifier:未來接MO的位置也不錯阿 想到有100哩的closer 讚啦
推 philluke:這時候就講先卡位先贏了XD 原來前兩年卡的位都不算就對了
→ philluke:你要不要乾脆說現在Guildry應該直接請回來先發?
推 hughes0305:網頁右邊可以投票表達對joba定位意見 大家來把牛棚灌爆
推 cannas:王本來就是以先發養的 讓他去牛棚又要及時拿出好成績
→ cannas:又不是火星人 都不用調適喔
→ siliver:上面的話用在Joba身上怎麼好像也能通啊,科科.
推 species:Joba的問題還是吃局數,他有好幾場被後援搞掉了
→ species:而且洋基牛棚的需求好像只有Joba有能力填補