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※ 編輯: shoulder 來自: 210.192.5.60 (04/01 15:21)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3582853.stm
Interview: Chen Shui-bian
專訪陳水扁
Mr Chen gave his first broadcast interview since he was re-elected
The following are excerpts from an interview given to the BBC by Taiwan's
President Chen Shui-bian. Mr Chen spoke in mandarin Chinese, and the
translation was provided by Taiwan's Government Information Office.
陳先生接受了連任後第一個廣播專訪。以下節錄自台灣總統陳水扁接受的BBC專訪。
陳先生是以中文敘述，英文譯稿是由台灣的新聞局所提供。
BBC: In your victory speech you said that this was the start of a new era
in relations with China and yet, already with the political uncertainty over
the last few days, we have seen China threatening to intervene if this
continues. It's not a good start is it?
BBC: 在你的勝選演說中你提到這是與中國關係的一個新世紀的起點，而針對這幾天來
政局上的不明朗，中國揚言到如果這繼續下去將會進行干涉。而這並不是一個好的開始
，不是嗎?
Chen Shui-bian: The fact that I've been re-elected President of Taiwan is
not something the Beijing authority is happy to see, but it happened anyway,
and I hope that the Beijing authority would accept the new choice made by 23
million people of Taiwan...
陳：我當選連任台灣總統的事實並不是北京當局所樂見，但結果是如此。而我希望北局
當局能接受這個由台灣二千三百萬人所做的新決定。
I think it is very important to improve the cross-strait relations and
stabilise the cross-strait relations in order to have a normalisation across
the strait and this is the top priority for my policy implementation for the
next four years. We will not give up any effort or any possibility in
improving cross-strait relations because we understand the whole international
society is very concerned about the new developments across the straits and
the improvement of cross strait relations also is the expectation of our people.
我認為改善兩岸之間的關係是非常重要的，而且穩定兩岸之間的關係並將其正常化是我將
來四年施政的首要目標。只要有任何的可能性，我們不會放棄任何改善兩岸關係的機會，
因為我們了解整個國際社會對兩岸之間的新發展都非常關切，而改善兩岸之間的關係也
是我們人民的期待。
BBC: Your referendum that you held on the same day as polling day failed
because not enough people took part. That referendum asked whether the
government should beef up its defences and whether it should re-open peace
talks with China. Now that that referendum has failed, does that mean that
those policies can't take place?
BBC: 你在大選同一天所舉辦的公投因為投票人數不足而失敗。此次公投的內容是有關
政府是否應提昇防禦能力，與是否應重啟與中國的和平對談。而現在公投沒有通過，
這是否意指此項政策無法進行?
Chen Shui-bian: I think there are three factors that have influenced the
result of this referendum. Number one is the intimidation and threat from
China. Number two is the opposition camp's attempt to sabotage this referendum
and they tried to mobilise their people not to take the referendum ballots,
and the third factor comes with the fact that we respected the decision made
by our local government in introducing a 'U' shaped voting procedure. That is
to say people received their presidential ballot and cast their presidential
ballot first and then received the referendum ballot and cast that ballot.
Some have just forgotten to take the referendum ballot after they have voted
for the president, so I think these three factors have all led to this less
than expected voting percentage for this referendum.
陳:我認為影響公投的結果有三個因素。第一是中國的恐嚇與威脅。第二是反對陣營試
圖妨害公投，並且動員他們的支持者拒投公投。第三個原因是我們尊重我們地方政府
所使用的U形投票程序。也就是說，先領總統選票並投完總統選票，然後才領公投選票
並投票。有些人在投完總統之後只是忘記投公投選票。所以我認為這三個因素都導致
此次公投低於預期的投票率。
However, I must say that I am very happy to see that we have such a positive
result for our first referendum in our history and that gives me more
confidence in Taiwan's democracy.
然而，我必需說明，我仍然非常高興在我們歷史上第一次的公投能有這麼樣正面的結果
，而這更堅定了我對台灣民主的信心。
(Protests at the election result appear to be dying down)
(插圖：選舉結果的抗議者逐漸減少)
BBC: But the fact remains that the referendum failed. Are you now going to
abandon your plans to hold a referendum on a new constitution for Taiwan?
BBC: 但事實上公投的結果就是失敗了。你會因此而放棄你將為台灣新憲法所舉辦的
公投嗎?
Chen Shui-bian: I have great confidence in Taiwan's democracy. I have great
confidence in the universal value and in basic human rights and I have great
confidence that referenda will eventually take root and become part of our
daily lives in Taiwan.
陳: 我對台灣的民主有非常強大的信心。我也堅信普世價值與基本人權，並且我也相信，
公投終竟會在台灣生根，而成為我們生活的一部份。
This time we had 7.4 million people who cast their votes in this referendum
and this is the first step taken in Taiwan and it has not been easy. In the
future, even though this referendum didn't pass this time it will not have
any impact on our referendum regarding the new constitution because we
understand fully the importance of having a tailor-made new constitution that
is suitable for Taiwan.
這次大約有七百四十萬人投下公投票，而這是台灣所舉行的第一次公投，當然它也並不
容易。即使這次公投沒有通過，這並不會影響在將來有關新憲的公投，因為我們完全了
解到，擁有一個為台灣訂製並適合台灣的新憲法的重要性。
In our constitutional reform effort, we intend to deal with the issue of
whether to adopt a presidential system - that of the US style - or a cabinet
system - in the British style - or to have the governmental division of power
with five branches of power or three branches of power like that of the United
States and the United Kingdom, and we also intend to deal with the issue of
halving our legislative seats and adopting a single district two votes system.
在我們為憲法改革所做的努力中，我們希望處理的問題包括：是否採用總統制(即美國式)
，或是內閣制(即英國式)；或政府的架構要採五權分立制，還是英美的三權分立制；我們
也希望處理立委席次減半及單一選區兩票制的問題。
We also intend to deal with the issue of incorporating basic human rights into
our new constitution. These basic human rights include the right to peace and
also rights of labour, which includes the right of solidarity, of justice and
of negotiation. We also intend to dedicate a special chapter to the indigenous
rights in which we will define the relationship amongst the indigenous groups
with the government as a new partnership and we will also define our
relationship with the indigenous group as a quasi-country to country
relationship, namely as a country within a country. Also in the new
constitution, we want to lower the voting age from 20 years to 18 years and
also gradually implement a voluntary military service in replacement of the
current compulsory military service.
我們也希望能將基本人權加入到新憲法當中。所謂的基本人權包括和平權以及勞動權，
也包括了連署權、正義權、以及談判權。(這幾個權我實在不大懂) 我們也希望製訂一個
有關原住民權利的特別章節，會將政府與原住民族群的關係定義成一種新的夥伴關係，
我們也會將與原族民族群之間的關係定位為國家與準國家的關係，也就是國家中的國家。
另外，在新憲法中我們希望投票年齡由二十歲降低到十八歲，並逐漸以募兵制來取代現
行的徵兵制。
These are all issues of great concern that we intend to deal with in our
constitutional engineering because we have witnessed that in the past 10 years
we have had a constitutional revision six times, but no-one is completely
satisfied with the result and we do not wish to repeat the same mistakes again.
這些全部都是我們在推動憲改工程時所非常關切的議題，因為在過去十年之間，我們對
憲法做了六次的修改，然而沒有人對這些結果感到完全滿意。而我們也不希望這樣的錯
誤一再的發生。
That is why I propose that after we have concluded our constitutional reform
conference, we will by-pass the ad hoc national assembly representatives of
300 people voting to pass and validate the new constitution.
這也就是為什麼我在憲改會議之後提出的結論，我們將不經過由300個特別的國民大會代
表選舉，來通過與驗證新憲法。
Instead we want to put the new constitution to a direct referendum of the
people to decide whether they want to accept the new constitution or not,
and this new constitution will have no bearing on the issue of unification
or independence, nor will it change the status quo, it will continue to
maintain the status quo and the timetable we have in mind is to have the new
constitution completed by 2006, and also have it enacted on 20 May 2008.
取而代之的，我們希望將新憲法直接經過人民公投，來決定人民是否要接受這
個新憲法。而這個新憲法將不會觸及到統獨的問題，也不會改變現狀，而是會繼續維
持現狀。另外，我們預定的時程是在2006年時完成新憲，而在2008年5月20時實行。
That is the day I will step down from the presidency and it is very clear
that this new constitution is not made for me, personally, and it's not made
for the Democratic Progressive Party.
那也就是我將卸下總統職務的時候，而且很清楚的，這個新憲法並不是為了我
個人而製作的，而且也不是為了民主進步黨。
Instead it will be made for Taiwan's long term peace and security and also
increasing government efficiency and I'm sure our people will support such
an effort.
相反的，新憲是為了台灣長遠的和平與安全，並增進政府的效率，而我相信人
民將會支持這樣的努力。
BBC: So are you ruling out any moves towards independence during this second
term?
BBC: 所以這代表您排除了在這個任期當中，你會有任何朝向獨立的行動嗎?
Chen Shui-bian: Taiwan is an independent sovereign country. Under the current
constitution its name is the Republic of China. In the 1999 resolution
regarding Taiwan's future passed by the Democratic Progressive Party, it is
stated very clearly that any change to the status quo of Taiwan must be
decided by the people of Taiwan through referenda.
陳: 台灣是一個主權獨立的國家。在現行的憲法下，他的國號叫做中華民國。
在民進黨1999年所通過的台灣前途決議文當中，它非常明白的表示，任何對台灣現狀的
改變必需由台灣人民公投來決定。
It is very clear that our timetable for introducing the new constitution
through referendum in 2006 and having the new constitution enacted in 2008
is just a timetable for Taiwan's democratic reform and constitutional reform.
It is never a timetable for independence. If anyone who regards this as a
timetable for independence then it is a serious misunderstanding and a
serious distortion.
非常清楚的是，我們在2006年由公投來摧生新憲法，並在2008年實行此新憲法的時間表，
這僅僅是為了台灣的民主改革與憲法改革。這不是台獨的時間表。如果有任何人要把這
個解讀為台獨的時間表，那就是一個很嚴重的誤解，也是很嚴重的扭曲。
As we can see from the election this time, even the opposition parties cannot
oppose the mainstream value, the will of the people, [who] oppose unification
of the two sides and insist on Taiwan being an independent sovereign country.
由本次的選舉我們可以看出，即使是反對黨也不能違反主流價值，也就是人民的
意願，人民反對兩岸的統一，而且堅持台灣是一個主權獨立的國家。
Taiwan is one country and the other side is another country and neither side
exercises jurisdiction over the other, and I think this important consensus
has been reached during this election and it represents and signifies that
the 23 million people of Taiwan, irrespective of their political affiliations
or whether they are in the opposition parties or the governing party - they
all refuse the one country two systems formula.
台灣是一個國家，而對岸則是另一個國家，並且兩邊並不互相統屬。我認為這次
選舉表達了這個重要的輿論，而這代表了台灣了二千三百萬人民的意願，不論他們的政治
傾向，也不論他們是在反對黨，抑或是在執政黨，他們都拒絕接受一國兩制。
The majority of Taiwan people cannot accept Taiwan becoming a second Hong
Kong, nor can we accept Taiwan becoming a local government of the People's
Republic of China or a Special Administrative Region of China.
台灣大多數的人民都無法接受台灣成為第二個香港，也無法接受台灣成為中國的一個地方
政府，或是成為中國的一個特別行政區。
If during this election campaign the opposition parties had insisted on
unification with China and accepted the One China principle - Beijing's
version of One China Principle of course - I think they would have lost even
more because it is very clear that the mainstream value of Taiwan is to
embrace the Taiwanese identity and we have seen a rise in Taiwan awareness
and our party has chosen to stand on the right side of history.
在這次的選舉當中，如果反對黨堅持與中國統一，或是接受一個中國原則(這裏
當然是指北京版本的一個中國原則)，我認為這樣的話他們將會輸的更多，因為非常清楚
的是，台灣的主流價值是要擁抱台灣認同，我們也看到了台灣意識的提升而我們則選
擇站在歷史上正確的一方。
That is why we're able to win more than 50% of the support from our people
and also have garnered an increase of 1.5 million votes compared with four
years ago and this rising of Taiwan identity and this mainstream value should
not be taken lightly.
這也是為什麼我們可以贏得過半人民的支持，並且和四年前相比增加了一百五十萬的
選票。而這台灣認同的主流價值是不可以被乎視的。
BBC: You said last week that you're now more free to act without the pressure
of having to campaign for the job again because here in Taiwan your time is
limited to two terms as president. What does that mean, that you feel you're
more able to do in your second term that you weren't able to do in your first
term?
BBC: 在上個星期你提到你已經沒有選舉的壓力而能更自由的來努力，因為在台灣總統的任
期是限制在兩任。這代表了什麼樣的意義? 你覺得你可以在這個任期做一些上一任期沒有
辦法做的事嗎?
Chen Shui-bian: The agenda I have in my mind for the next four years is to
unify Taiwan and stabilise cross Strait relations, stabilise our society and
re-invigorate our economy. After the election we have seen a division of the
society and division among different ethnic groups and this gap must be mended.
We must unify Taiwan, we cannot afford to have our society being divided in
half.
陳: 在我腦中對接下來四年的規劃是要統合台灣與穩定兩岸的關係，穩定我們的社會，
並且再提升我們的經濟。在這次的選舉之後我們看到了一個分裂的社會，以及不同族群
之間的分裂，而這個裂痕必需要修補。我們必需要統合台灣，我們的社會沒有辦法承受
被分裂為兩半。
Secondly I would like to make continuous efforts of stabilising cross Strait
relations, eventually reaching peace across the Taiwan strait and stability
and security in the Asia Pacific region. I think this would be in accordance
with the common interests of the United States, Japan and the Asia Pacific
countries and I will continue to make efforts in this regard and we will
hopefully eventually we will become a peace-maker instead of a trouble-maker.
其次，我希望能持續為穩定兩岸的關係做一些努力，最終希望能達到兩岸的和平
，以及亞太地區的安全與穩定。我相信這是與美國、日本、以及亞太地區國家利益一致
的，而我會持續做相關的努力，而希望最終我們能成為一個和平製造者，而不是麻煩製
造者。
BBC: There was an attempt on your life on the eve of the polls. There are
still people outside in the street who are suspicious about that. There are
still people who believe that somehow the election itself was suspicious.
How do you answer those allegations and how do you begin to win back the
trust of your people?
BBC: 在選舉前夕有人試圖奪去你的生命，而在外面街上也仍然有人對此表示懷疑。
仍然有人認為此次選舉是可疑的。你對這些主張如何回應，還有你如何取回人民的信任?
Chen Shui-bian: We have never rigged the vote nor have I attempted to stage
any kind of incident in trying to solicit more support. Such allegations and
accusations are not fair to myself, nor is it fair to the 200,000 election
workers and the many others involved in the election process.
陳: 我們從未作票，也從未試圖製造任何種類的意外來求得更多的支持。這些主張和
指控對我並不公平，也對二十幾萬的選務工作人員和其他很多的選舉程序的相關人員不
公平。
I understand the harsh feelings and sentiments from my opponents and their
supporters because I myself have been defeated twice in my political life
in the past and I understand very well it is hard to accept your own failure.
我可以了解我的對手，以及他們的支持者難過的感覺與心情，因為在過去我的從政
生涯當中我也曾經兩次敗選過，我也非常了解接受自已的失敗是非常困難的一件事。
I'm confident that this kind of turmoil will soon be over. What concerns me
more is that some people refuse to face their own election failure and they
went into such extent to mobilise their supporters to engage in long protests,
which resulted in the instability and division of our society and people.
我相信這樣的騷動會很快的平靜。我比較在意的是有些人拒絕去面對他們的選舉失敗，
而他們擴大動員他們的支持者，來進行長期的抗爭，而這會導致我們社會與人民的不穩
定和分裂。
We have had a long wait for democracy. It has been well over half a century
and I'm glad to say we have taken the right path from authoritarianism to
democracy and this is a road of no return. This is also a correct path that
we have taken. The road to democracy may be winding and is like a river taking
many curves, but eventually the river will reach the ocean.
我們已經等待民主一段非常久的時間。而我很高興我們在過去將近半個世紀以來，
我們走上正確的道路，由威權體制進入民主體制，而這條路是不可能會回頭的。而這也是
我們所選擇的正確道路。在民主的道路也許彎曲，也許就像個河流一樣會有許多曲流，但
河流終將會流向大海。
I believe in the greatness of our people. I believe in the greatness of our
democracy. The grandeur and strength or our people and democracy are as big
as a forest. Even though there is turmoil after the election. Even though
there was this shooting incident. I regard these as minor episodes and small
ripples on our long quest to democracy. Even if one tree falls down it wouldn't
affect the entire forest. Even if I were knocked down by one gunshot it
wouldn't affect our democracy and I wasn't knocked down and I have great
confidence in our democracy and in Taiwan and in the people of Taiwan.
我相信我們人民的偉大，我也相信我們民主的偉大。我們人民與民主的壯麗與強
軔就像森林一樣巨大。即使在選舉過後有所騷動。即使發生了槍擊的意外。我只將這些視
為在民主長遠的追尋上的小插曲和小漣漪。即使有一顆樹倒下，也不會影響到整個森林。
即使我被槍彈所擊倒，也不會影響到我們的民主。我沒有被擊到，而我也強烈的相信台灣
的民主，以及台灣的人民。
Translated by Shoulder
翻譯若有錯誤請指教
--
你說等待，是一生中最初的蒼老
--
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