Re: [新聞] TotalBiscuit跟Crank的聲明

[claus (La Jolla)]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376041&currentpage=203
http://tinyurl.com/9q9yvbu
TIG: jessica revealed the state of slayers in the past interview. Have you
seen it yet?

看過包嫂之前的訪談了嘛？

Mma: yes, however there are a lot of distortions in that article. But this
does not mean that the players are right and Jessica is wrong. I just wish
that people would look at this objectively and not just from one point of
view.

看過了。訪談裡很多事情不太正確，但這不代表選手們是對的而包嫂是錯的。我只是
希望人們客觀看事情而不是只憑一面之詞

TIG: you have a contract with slayers until November 6th. Can you explain us
the contract signing process?

你跟SlayerS合約到11/6，對吧？

Mma: before signing the contract, Jessica said that she made it similar to a
celebrity (actors/actresses) contract. At first, she told us that the only
way to get a sponsor was to let the potential sponsors know that ‘we have
play x, y and z’. So kimdongju (ganzi), kimsangjun (puzzle), kimdongwon
(ryung), yangjunshik (Alicia) along with myself signed the contract. As
mentioned before from Jessica, it was purely for the purpose of securing a
sponsor and she made us at ease with that statement, and the contract was
signed. Some players that signed did not even bother to read the contract and
trusted Jessica’s words.

簽約前包嫂有說他把合約弄得像演藝人員的合約。他告訴我們為了要得到贊助，要讓
贊助知道我們會有哪些選手。所以Ganzi Puzzle Ryung Alicia 和我都有簽約。有人
甚是沒看就簽了

TIG: what was the incident involving manager J?

J經理又是怎麼一回事

Mma: I think there needs to be an explanation about manager J. manager J was
an employee of corporation R, who were sponsors of Slayers. At first, he
dropped by the team house to say hello now and then, but his visits increased
in frequency and the guys at the team house got friendly with him. He was
similar to us in age and was pretty easy to talk to, so he was popular with
the younger guys as well. Boxer liked soccer so we played it a lot within the
team. Manager J started playing with us after a while and he was pretty good,
so he was our team’s ace (for soccer). When we bought soccer jerseys as a
team, we even bought one for him as well.

But a few months later, manager J left his company. Since he was jobless, he
came to our team house more often and Jessica saw fit to give him access to
the team’s facebook and twitter account since he was fluent in English and
german. He had a charming personality, so after time he eventually became in
charge of the foreign business, which was previously Cella’s work.

At the same time, Jessica said not to worry or even to ask about the
sponsors. We were contracted with corporation R at the time when we got to
know manager J, so jessica’s statement of the 2 month thing is wrong (not
sure what he’s referring to here). The incident started at this time.

J本來是R企業的員工，而R企業又是我們的贊助商。一開始他只是來我們宿舍跟我們
打招呼，後來次數越來越頻繁，而我們也跟他越來越熟。他跟我們年紀相似而且很
健談，所以還蠻受歡迎的。包哥愛踢足球，而J足球也很厲害，所以他有跟我們一起踢
，甚至還是我們的王牌。買足球隊服的時候還甚至幫他買。

幾個月後，J離職了，所以更常來我們這裡。包嫂覺得可以讓他管FB和推特，逐漸的
他開始負責了國外業務。同時，包嫂說不用擔心贊助。在我們剛認識J的時候R已經
跟我們簽約了，所以包嫂說的兩個月的事情（不知道是什麼事情）是錯的。所有的
一切都從這時開始。


TIG: could you explain more about this incident
Mma: it was right before my code s match versus alive (feb, 15th, 2012). I
heard something shocking from manager J that Jessica was forwarding my
potential personal sponsor to boxer. I couldn’t believe it. I got confused
but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks
afterwards

After much turmoil, I confessed to crank about my feelings. We talked a lot.
Crank was also sad because he couldn’t do anything for me, so it was hard on
him as well. As this went on, I got more stressed and even thought of
quitting the game. If I said this to Jessica, I thought manager J would get
the blame too so I did not talk.

After, my performance fell and I just focused on the game more since there
was nothing I could do about it. Crank suggested that I go talk to boxer as
he would know more from a player’s viewpoint. So I talked to boxer. Boxer
knew this was dangerous waters so he checked around for a few days and told
me that there was nothing of that nature (potential personal sponsor) going
on.

2012 2月中的時候，J跟我說包嫂要把我可能的個人贊助轉給包哥。我無法相信，超困惑，
但沒有人可以談這件事情。那幾個禮拜我思緒超沈重的。之後我跟Crank講了我的感受
，我們聊了很多。Crank因為他沒什麼能幫我的而很難過。之後我甚至想退休。如果我跟
包嫂講，我覺得J會被責怪所以我沒講。之後我的表現下滑了，所以我選擇專注在比賽上
，反正我也不能做什麼。Crank建議去找包哥談，所以我去找包哥。包哥知道事態的嚴重
所以他去查證了幾天，後來說沒有什麼個人贊助的事情


Jessica did not release any details about our sponsors so I had no choice but
to trust manager J regarding this matter because he was a former employee of
corporation R. at the same time, I lost faith in Jessica because of how she
treated the players and the arguments she picked with other players (on other
teams).

As the manager J incident was wrapping up, boxer and Jessica gathered all the
players and said ‘if there is anything we did wrong, it was letting manager
J come into the team house, so let’s try harder and get the team house
atmosphere up again’. However, it was already too late. There was no way to
turn back the situation because the players were already too deeply wounded.

In this environment, I lived at the team house for a few months. Crank saw
the seriousness of this situation and appealed individually to boxer and
Jessica, but nothing changed. In contrast, Jessica was saying things like ‘
the team is like this because of mma’ and pointing the blame towards me.
Then the contract annulment thing blew up.

包嫂沒有告知我們任何有關贊助商的細節，所以我沒有選擇只能去相信曾經是R企業
員工的J。同時，在看到包嫂怎麼對隊友以及和其他隊的人吵架情形之後，我也對包
嫂失去信心。在J經理事件即將處理完的時候，包哥包嫂聚集大家說「如果我們有做錯
什麼，那就是讓J近來，讓我們更加努力讓氣氛回來吧」但已經太晚了，因為隊員們
都已經受傷太深了。

我在宿舍這種環境下住了幾個月。Crank看到事情的嚴重性而直接去找包哥包嫂反應
，但什麼都沒改變。相對的，包嫂都說是因為我而造成的，都在怪我。後來取消合約
的事情發生了

TIG: by contract annulment, you mean the contract between the team and
players?
Mma: yes, Jessica said in her interview that there was no splitting of the
prizes from individual events but told us to split the money because of ‘
coach ryu’s wages and player maintenance funds’ at the time, cella received
some portion of player’s foreign prize winnings (less than ~$1000 USD).
Jessica said to give a portion of the winnings from foreign events. So as
agreed on the contract, we sent a portion of the winnings to an account
Jessica provided. After this, nothing changed still.

Boxer and Jessica almost never came to the practice room and we were managed
by the coaches only. We still had to take public transportation to get to and
from the venues and the team house. Even in the winter, we had to commute
between gimpo and mokdong (about 50~85min by bus/subway) and we realized that
this affected our conditions for the matches that we had to play that day.
After discussing this with the players, we also noticed that there were no
differences between the contracted players and the non-contract players and
came to a conclusion that this would not be good for the team, so we decided
to bring up the issue to boxer and Jessica.

包嫂在訪談裡說他沒有從比賽抽成，但要我們分一些獎金出來負擔Ryu教練以及球隊運作
基金，當時Cella有拿到一些國外比賽的獎金（少於1000美金）。包嫂說要分一部份
獎金出來，所以根據合約，我們將一部份獎金轉到一個包嫂提供的帳戶。

包哥包嫂幾乎很少來練習室，我們都是教練在管的。我們還是要搭大眾運輸。就算是
冬天也要花50-85分鐘搭公車/地鐵去比賽會場，而我們也知道這會影響我們當天的比賽
手感。另外在隊員間討論之後，我們注意到有簽約跟沒簽約的隊員沒有什麼待遇上的差別
，我們覺得這對戰隊不好，所以向包哥包嫂反應。

The reply that came back was ‘we cant give the car to cella’ and ‘coach
ryu has no license, so he can’t drive at all’. Crank couldn’t stand this,
so he volunteered to drive and drove the players to the gomtv studios. Crank
was part of the motorized military before, so he had plenty of driving
experience.

There was no change and the players’ discontent grew. I asked coach ryu if
he had received any wages and he told me that he did not receive anything
until February of 2012. Furthermore, when cella accompanied me to mlg in the
states, he had to pay for the roaming charges on his cell phone even though
Jessica promised to pay for it. Coach ryu asked Jessica about the promised
wages and was told that ‘we don’t collect money from the players, you go
collect it for yourself’.

About an hour after Jessica told ryu the aforementioned statement, she called
me and crank to her house. Boxer and Jessica told me everything and me and
crank talked of the discontent that we had. At the end, Jessica said that ‘
lets nullify the contract right now’ and asked if we wanted to rip our
contracts, but I didn’t want to. We were returned the money that we paid
after a week.

我們得到的回應是「我們不能把車給Cella」，「Ryu教練沒有駕照」Crank受不了，所以
自願充當司機。Crank當兵時有充分的駕駛經驗。但什麼都沒有改變，不滿也日益高漲。
我問Ryu教練他有沒有收到任何薪資，而他告訴我直到2012 2月前都沒有收到。Cella陪我
MLG的時候，包嫂有答應要幫付手機漫遊的錢，但後來還是Cella自己付。當Ryu教練去問
包嫂有關薪水的事情的時候，包嫂說「我們不向隊員要錢，你自己去要」

在跟Ryu講了那些之後的一個小時，他把我跟Crank叫到他家。我們跟包哥包嫂把所有事情
都講開了。最後，包嫂說，我們現在把合約取消掉，問我們要不要取消，但我不想。一
個禮拜後我們拿回了之前我們付的錢。

TIG: this contrasts with jessica’s statement that a contract was remaining.
When did you verify this?
Mma: we trusted Jessica. But this was our mistake. After Jessica said ‘lets
rip the contracts’, she gathered all the players and said ‘I wont hold you
back if you want to leave the team’.

At this time, the players that wanted to go to a foreign team (ganzi, taeja)
had their contracts nullified. After a few days, we asked if the contract was
really nullified. However, Jessica said that the contract was only nullified
for those that wanted to leave the team on that day only. After hearing this,
the players were very disappointed at Jessica and I was hurt by jessica’s
duplicity.
*note by editor here says taeja was not in a contract with slayers.

我們相信包嫂，但那是我們的失誤。在包嫂說要把合約取消掉後，他召集了所以隊員
，然後說如果我們想離隊他不會阻止。當時想去國外戰隊的Ganzi Taeja順利離開了。
幾天後我們去問我們的合約是否真的取消了，但包嫂說只有當天表示要離隊的人合約
才被取消掉。在聽到這之後，我們對包嫂非常失望，我被包嫂的兩面個性傷得很重


TIG: do you have anything to say about your relegation to B-team in july?
Mma: it was right before the GSTL match. After the aforementioned events, I
needed to clear my mind so I went out on Saturday. I cleared my mind and
returned. the game was coming up, so the only thing I was thinking was about
winning. Jessica stated that I did not return to the team house, but this is
false. I did all my tasks, then left on Saturday night and returned on Sunday
morning.

After returning, ryung told me what boxer said: ‘mma is like a cancer cell,
so I have to quarantine you from him’. After hearing this, I lost all
passion for preparing for the GSTL and the team. The thought that ran through
my mind was ‘im trying so hard for my team, but this is what they think of me
’ and I despaired.

在那些事情之後，我要讓思緒清楚點，所以我禮拜六出去了。我沈澱了思緒然後回去了
。及將要比GSTL了，我腦裡也只想要贏。包嫂說我沒有回宿舍但這是假的。我做了我
的工作，然後禮拜六晚上離開，禮拜天早上救回去了。回去之後，Ryung告訴我說包哥說
「MMA就像個癌細胞，所以我需要把你從他身邊隔離」聽到這之後，我喪失所以為GSTL
或戰隊拼戰的熱誠。一想到我這麼拼命為戰隊但他們這樣想我讓我很絕望


TIG: what kind of communication went between you and boxer?
Mma: boxer told me that I was relegated to the b-team so I should go home. I
wondered why I got relegated and did not understand. I wish boxer and Jessica
would have told me what I did wrong, but there was no communication between
us and I was relegated.

After hearing this from ryung, I packed my bags and told boxer ‘im leaving
so you don’t need to relegate me’. Boxer said that I was under a contract
so I couldn’t leave on my free will. This made my emotions run high and I
told him that this is a slavery contract.

About this statement, I am very sorry. The slavery contract was the contract
between the individuals of the management and me, not between the team and
me, so even if I transferred, I had to give a portion of the tournament
winnings to Jessica. There was silence for 10 minutes and boxer said ‘we do
things our way’ and the conversation ended. The next day, the article
regarding relegation came out.

包哥跟我講我被放到二軍然後該回家。我希望包哥包嫂可以告訴我我做錯了什麼而被
放到二軍，但沒有任何溝通。我打包然後跟包哥說我要離開了所以你們不用下放我。
包哥說我仍然有合約所以不能離開，這時候情緒使然讓我說了奴隸合約的事情。

關於這，我非常抱歉。那個奴隸合約是我跟經理階層之間的合約，跟戰隊無關，所以
就算我轉隊，我還是要抽成給包嫂。大約十分鐘寂靜之後，包哥說「我們照我們的方式
做事」然後對談就結束了。隔天被下放的消息就出來了


TIG: after the article came out, Jessica came to the interview for code a
(july 25th)
Mma: I met with Jessica and asked ‘how could you write an article like this’
. i asked ‘did I even ask for a transfer to a foreign team?’ and the reply
that came back was ‘I’ll rewrite the article if you want’. I was
flabbergasted. She then explained me the terms of the ‘slavery contract’. ‘
this is nothing. In the entertainment industry, the standard for a contract
is 5 or 10 years’

I wondered the relevance of bringing up terms of contracts in the
entertainment industry. After, Jessica said that she will not receive any
statements about the relegation and cut off questions from reporters. So the
interview went out, but it was only about the game itself. I had a little bit
to say at the end about my current situation and feelings to the fans.

後來Code A訪談包嫂有來，我遇到包嫂問他說他怎麼可以寫那樣的文章呢。我問包嫂
「我有要求轉到外國戰隊嗎」，我得到的回應是「如果你要我可以重寫那篇文章」我
超氣的。他向我解釋「奴隸合約」。在演藝界，制式合約大多五年或十年。

TIG: you told Jessica you wanted to leave twice
Mma: yes, that’s right. The first time was when everyone at the team house
was having a hard time because of the incident with manager J and I could not
stand the management badmouthing me so I did not want to be a part of the
team anymore. However there were those that helped me out a lot before and I
was thankful, so I did not tell them of the current events (I think he’s
referring to manager/coaches of other teams). instead, I said I wanted a
transfer to a foreign team. Shortly afterwards, talks began with slayers and
a foreign team (TL). During this, a lot of facts were hidden from me (by
Jessica) so my mistrust grew even more. So I said I wanted to leave the team
for a second time

我曾經兩次跟包嫂說我要離開。第一次是因為J事件而責怪責任到我身上的時候。但當
時還是有人幫助我很多，我非常感謝，所以我沒有跟管理階層的人講到實際發生的事情
，而是講說我想換到國外戰隊。在這之後戰隊跟TL有一些對談。過程中包嫂對我隱瞞了
很多事情，所以我的不信任感增加更多。這時是我第二次說想離隊


TIG: Jessica said that when you went to foreign events, no one (other
Koreans) said hello to you and ostracized you while badmouthing Jessica. Is
this true?
Mma: I went to more foreign events than any other members of my team. So I
was able to hear bad rumors of Jessica from other people. Although I heard
these, I respected her so I was very objective about them. I told Jessica of
these, and Jessica said wistfully that she would like to become friendly with
other teams as well.

Even after this, there was no change and Jessica even said ‘this is how we
don’t get ignored by other teams’. I said that there were other methods of
going about this and she said that ‘you have to be vocal to be heard’.
Afterwards, I did not tell Jessica what other people thought of her.

我參加最多國外比賽，所以我有聽到一些包嫂不好的謠言。因為我還是非常尊敬包嫂，
所以我把聽到的都跟包嫂講。包嫂跟我說他也希望可以跟其他戰隊的人友好。在這之後
也沒改變，包嫂甚至說「這樣我們才不會被其他隊漠視」（我猜是網路上吵架的事）。
我說應該有其他方法，但包嫂說你必須大聲講話才能被聽到。在這之後我再也沒跟包嫂
講其他人怎麼看他的事情了


TIG: can you tell us of hidden facts regarding the transfer
Mma: afterwards, I was able to find out about the trade negotiations. An
incredibly large sum of money was demanded for me even though I had 3 months
left on my contract. The talks broke down. This was because of the absurd
transfer fee and other inquiries were made to teams that I didn’t even want
to go to.

After a month, I was able to verify that in some negotiations, my transfer
fee was zero. This change in behavior in Jessica is what ultimately made
boxer move to SKT1.

我後來發現儘管我還有三個月合約在身，在對談中他們還是要求了大筆轉隊費。因為
無理的轉隊費，對談結束了。他們有向一些我壓根沒有想去的戰隊詢問接收我的可能
姓。一個月後，我得知在一些對談中我的轉隊費是零。包嫂的這些改變是最後導致
包哥回SKT1的原因


TIG: in april, boxer stated that he stopped playing because of the players.
What do you think of this statement
Mma: I think the biggest reason why boxer stopped playing is because of
jessica’s constant interference in and out of the game. Boxer likes to focus
and practice. Although he gets angry after a loss, he endures it and
continues playing. In situations like this, calls kept coming about
unimportant stuff and he sometimes complained that he couldn’t practice
because of Jessica.

Because of this, the atmosphere in the team house fell. Jessica likes to read
various community sites and berated boxer by saying things like ‘why did you
do this’, ‘why didn’t you use this strategy’. Overall, the meddling was
pretty severe.
Boxer sometimes said that he wanted to quit gaming because of all the
meddling. Because of this, boxer and Jessica argued a lot. During this time
period, an article was published saying that boxer’s shoulder conditions
were not good. Although his shoulders were not very good from previous times,
I think the main reason for boxer’s quitting as a player is because of
Jessica.

四月的時候，包哥說因為隊員的原因而暫時停止出賽。但我覺得最大的原因是因為包嫂
持續的干預比賽內外的事情。包哥喜歡專注於練習，雖然比賽輸了會很生氣，但他會去
接受並且繼續練習。在這樣的情況下，包嫂會一直打來講一些有的沒有的，包哥有時候
會抱怨因為包嫂的原因而無法練習

因為這樣，宿舍氣氛變的很糟。包嫂愛看很多社群網站，然後對包哥說「你為什麼這樣
做，為什麼不用這個戰術」總而言之，干預的情形很嚴重。包哥甚是有說過因為這些干
預甚至想直接退休。因為這樣，包哥包嫂常常吵架。這期間，有報導說包哥肩膀情形不
太好。雖然他肩膀從前就不太好，但我覺得包哥退休的主要原因是因為包嫂


From a player’s perspective, the interview with Jessica about the team’s
disbanding seems to be directed wholly at the players. She fails to
acknowledge that she had faults with her managerial skills and tries to blame
all of it on us. Therefore, boxer did not lose his will to play because of us.

從隊員角度來看，包嫂有關戰隊解散的訪談全部都在責怪隊員，他沒有承認他經營
能力上的失誤。包哥並不是因為我們才喪失動力的

TIG: Jessica said that mma has no desire to move to a kespa team or play in
proleague

包嫂說你沒有興趣轉到kespa?

Mma: when I was doing well, Jessica said that when slayers could negotiate
with kespa teams in the future, she would sell me to SKT1 for a large amount
of money. She said that skt1 is the best terran team and wished that I would
do better than fantasy (when he transfers).

Before I started playing sc2, I was a practice student in skt1. I was in poor
health there. When I played more than 25 games a day, my index finger would
start to get paralyzed and my whole hand would hurt. So I only played about
20 games and I spent the rest of the time watching replays and VODS, as well
as researching. Back then, the proleague system was a place where I couldn’t
do well physically. Somehow, this statement got blown out of proportion and I
do not understand this.

在我表現還好的時候時，包嫂有說過當SlayerS可以跟kespa談的時候，他會用高價把我
賣給SKT1。他說那是人族最好的戰隊，希望我可以比太子還出色

在我打SC2之前，我曾經是skt1的練習生。那時我健康情形不好，如果一天打超過25場
比賽，我食指會麻痺整個手會痛。所以我一天大概幾打個20場然後剩下時間都在看replay
或vod以及想戰術。但不知怎麼搞的這種說法竟然被扭曲成那樣，我無法理解



TIG: anything else you want to say?
Mma: I want to thank boxer and Jessica for making me a famous player as well
as giving me an opportunity in slayers. However, the events that occurred up
until now have affected the team in a very bad way and I have also gotten
hurt. I want to apologize to boxer and Jessica about these events.

However, I want to state that jessica’s interview in many ways were
distorted and a lot of players received unnecessary blame for it. That’s why
they agreed to interviews. I apologize for making the fans worry so much. I
would also like to apologize for any wrongdoings done by the plays, on behalf
of the players. Again, I am very sorry.

我要謝謝包哥包嫂讓我成名以及給我機會在SlayerS表現。但是所發生的事情嚴重的影響
要戰隊，我也受傷了。針對這些事情我向包哥包嫂表達歉意。

但是，我要表明包嫂訪談中很多地方都被扭曲，很多隊員承擔了不關的指責，所以他們
才會出來接受訪談。我讓粉絲擔心這麼多也方常抱歉。我也代表隊員們，對於他們可能
做出的不太好的事情道歉。再次的，我非常抱歉。

original article:
http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319677




※ 引述《kira925 (1 2 3 4 疾風炭)》之銘言：
: 配宵夜的東西來了
: TIG MMA採訪
: http://www.thisisgame.com/board/view.php?category=13439&id=1319677
: 對不起，這是韓文T_T
: 連TL論壇都在求翻譯

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc)
◆ From: 111.240.134.218
推 pklaohya:謝翻譯!!
推 OnlyTD:先推翻譯
推 RKO771022:先感謝翻譯~!!
推 kullan:恩 確實兩邊都有問題
推 GigiBuffon:感恩翻譯   看起來都有問題
→ OnlyTD:所以轉隊費 J經理&贊助/獎金 奴隸約 練習模式 等才是重點??
推 capssan:包嫂根本就PTT鄉民科科 各種指導
推 kira925:中間有一段記者有指出來翻譯沒翻的:只有Ganzi有合約
→ kira925:Taeja跟Slayers是沒有任何契約關係的
→ capssan:包哥都查沒有贊助商 為什麼還要怪包嫂沒有說明贊助細節
推 GUYDA:說法算誠懇 不過中間一段說自己不想取消合約?
→ GUYDA:後來又對於沒有被取消合約感到失望 這是不是怪怪的?
推 lpca:所以MMA果然是相信J經理 然後包嫂覺得很不爽 都是J經理的錯
推 capssan:可以肯定的是包嫂的賽亞人個性是戰隊氣氛不好的主因之一
推 phykevin:J經理先問題 然後MMA相信 然後包嫂不爽就偏了
→ phykevin:看起來包嫂大概是什麼都自己攬的人 難怪溝通會不好
推 GUYDA:不過J經理的確有問題.. 連MMA都不信他了...  內奸J...
→ capssan:哦我看懂了= = 那包嫂的講法其實也沒錯
推 kira925:不過轉隊後還要持續付錢給Slayers是怎樣的契約阿....
推 lpca:然後離隊那段 包嫂只說離隊不會阻止 有兩人也離隊成功了
→ lpca:MMA那時到底有沒有說要離隊呀
推 hn85017889:女人!
→ capssan:很明顯沒有 所以合約被續下去
→ capssan:T&G都表明想離開所以沒被續約
→ kira925:MMA的訪談把事件往前推移了兩個月以上
推 lianhua:所以包嫂是鍵宗無誤？
→ kira925:Ganzi是有簽約 "Taeja是沒有簽約的"
→ capssan:可以肯定的是包嫂絕對是個鄉民 有沒有上PTT不知道(誤
推 GUYDA:包嫂肯定是有推卸責任 不過她做事都還算站得住腳...
推 shoe:MMA那時候有點反覆，當時不走，後來走不掉又不爽
→ capssan:然後移動到會場那邊..呃 早點過去暖手不好嗎-.-
→ capssan:太假上次GSL不是說他到會場練了好幾個小時暖手
→ lovemanu20:星海人生阿 顆顆
推 lpca:包嫂講話好像大部分是事實吧 不過隊內氣氛很糟...
推 kullan:猶豫也是人之常情啦 看來整件事就是在誤會缺乏溝通下變糟的
→ Aggro:這篇看起來包嫂說的大部分沒問題 不過選手說的也是
→ lpca:MMA當時自己沒說要離隊 然後合約沒取消就很不爽?
→ capssan:包嫂就是戰隊氣氛不好的原因之一 但看來她本人毫無自覺
→ Aggro:她真的處理手腕沒做好XD
→ lianhua:感覺就是囉唆又覺得自己無所不能的女人，所以惹人嫌0.0
推 GUYDA:MMA這篇也只是下碉堡防守避免被A平  並沒有發動進攻
推 RKO771022:包嫂的問題就是沒處理好對內的溝通...
→ Aggro:真的很像叛逆期覺得媽媽很煩 然後信了同學的話做了傻事XD
→ lpca:MMA就很不信任包嫂 然後包嫂從J經理事件後 對他也很不爽吧
推 capssan:包嫂就是老媽子阿 什麼都自以為是的幫你想好
→ GUYDA:MMA自己有問題沒錯 第一時間相信J 然後自己不爽1~2周
推 kullan:要A包嫂不容易 因為她大部分都站得住腳 就是個性上的問題
→ capssan:我這是為你好 不要問 照我說的就對了 #$%@#$
→ lpca:這篇很明顯MMA信J經理 不信包嫂
→ Aggro:出發點應該是好的 只是方法讓人受不了才變成這樣
→ GUYDA:早點攤牌 或許就不會有後面這些事情了 還多帶了一個苦主
→ Aggro:包哥就像忙賺錢的老爸 不管事的(?
推 garbagewei:所以情理說完了 最精采的法呢?
→ capssan:連這爸都被老媽子罵到想退休了 顆顆
推 sezna:MMA 你的高價轉隊費呢?  害won被A爆耶
→ garbagewei:包哥那段也不確定是不是真的吧
推 kullan:Won跟ACE那兩個笨蛋就是搞笑役 沒啥好說的XD
→ capssan:那兩個是看現場太緊張 出來緩和氣氛的 大家別介意
推 lpca:包嫂算是個討人厭的選手 但平A超強XD
→ sezna:包嫂說:要轉隊就說 Ganzi太甲爽快轉  MMA你們自己不敢講
推 GUYDA:MMA這波沒有推出 是會被滾滾毒爆滾平還是就此安穩營運呢?
推 foda:包嫂不會打星海給包哥建議不是很搞笑嗎 說話大聲才聽得見也是
→ foda:很奇怪的觀念
→ sezna:人家當然以為你們要留
推 Woorissica:現在還是包嫂嗎 還是只是金佳妍?
→ momogo11:那時候MMA沒有選擇離隊 後來離不開了qq
→ fatdoghusky:看不太懂 codeA說自己沒有想去國外戰隊 但下一段又說
推 kira925:其實只是金佳妍
→ KaoDarly:韓國妹子阿!凶悍是很正常的
推 Adonisy:MMA中間有點帶過...可以反駁的點很多
→ fatdoghusky:再J經理的事件後有以想去國外戰隊的名義提離隊
→ Adonisy:桿子要離開，MMA沒說要走，合約當然繼續，不然咧？
→ foda:站在MMA的立場來看 MMA比包嫂要委屈多了包嫂根本有點反覆無常
→ momogo11:他還替包哥講話勒XDDD
→ lpca:我覺得這篇看來 還是MMA自己問題比較大
→ foda:不會打星海的人管理星海戰隊基本事就是一件離譜的事情
推 suwilliam:MMA也來一波了~XDDDDDDD
推 shoe:包嫂跟包哥那段就人家家務事了其實沒必要講
推 sezna:他只是想突顯包嫂連包哥都受不了 何況他
→ sezna:坐等包嫂反擊
推 Coshower:包哥因為包嫂干預才選擇去SKT1那段真是八卦 XD
推 Adonisy:不過 MMA你不練習就是個菜逼啊，人族就是要有開刀的決悟
→ Coshower:連他們常吵架都抖出來 毀滅了一對螢幕情侶(?)
→ foda:包嫂根本不跟人溝通的 還怪隊員 基本上個性實在很無言
→ suwilliam:MMA的重點可能是在簽約跟沒簽約都一樣慘是嗎?XD
推 lpca:夫妻不吵架那才糟吧 怎麼可能不吵架
推 GUYDA:包嫂之前有說 SKT1早就想挖腳包哥了 後來是包哥失望了
→ sezna:MMA說他有練啊 因為手痛練比較少 不是不喜歡
→ GUYDA:才會接受去到SKT1當助教
→ Adonisy:在包哥之翼，他們的吵架就是冷戰而講話而以啊..還好
→ lpca:包嫂就很情緒化然後又很嗆呀XD
→ sezna:MMA扯到家務事是很大的洞 只要包哥站包嫂那邊說沒有它就...
→ GUYDA:之前包哥有說 包嫂很溫柔 幫她很多 生活起居基本離不開了
→ foda:MMA從頭到尾就是個被陷害的受害者
→ Adonisy:包嫂一直強勢但我想為何以前大家會在訪問先感謝包嫂非包哥
→ lpca:自己要相信J經理 怪我囉XD
→ GUYDA:扯到人家吵架其實有點過頭了 看包哥想不想放MMA一碼了
→ Adonisy:然後突然關係變的如此這般，這其中一定不是這樣
推 Coshower:這種電競隊員基本上很多都是涉世未深的小孩子,就算真有錯
推 KaoruGao:所以那個J經理是什麼身分？沒人想找這傢伙算帳嗎？
→ momogo11:吵架還好 看一看鄉民評論 來指責引發吵架又不一樣
→ Coshower:包嫂那種把責任都推給選手 完全避開自己經營責任的方式
→ foda:J經理跟他說的內容 他不敢問包哥阿 我們是旁觀者清
→ lpca:之前包嫂就狂砲J經理呀 認為是他搞鬼 這篇也可以證明就是如此
→ Coshower:讓人看了實在很不能認同.. xd  這點上比較支持MMA這篇
→ GUYDA:你可以不欣賞包嫂的手段 不過局面上看起來是包嫂大優..
推 sezna:連MMA都說是誤信J  所以J的事是真的有嘛
→ foda:想想你自己是MMA的話 遇到這種狀況怎麼辦??馬上就知道該相信
→ Adonisy:從 MMA選遊戲王當對手，選手內部的關係應該本來就不好
→ foda:誰嗎??不可能吧
推 suwilliam:早就說過了~這種事情一個巴掌拍不響~兩邊都有一些問題在
推 kullan:MMA這篇也沒有反駁包嫂大部分的發言 兩邊沒有明顯衝突
→ lpca:反正MMA是不信包嫂的 這只能說包嫂不得MMA的信任
→ Adonisy:桿子、勇都嫉妒MMA運氣好，加上 crank和隊員處不好等等
推 Coshower:MMA這篇把他自己的心情跟想法比較清楚地表達出來
→ suwilliam:MMA不是也說了?會相信J是因為從包嫂那得不到相關的資訊
→ foda:包嫂說只有當天說要離隊的才能離隊 這邊就很不厚道阿.....
推 toya123:亨 包嫂看起來就是壞人(〞︶〝＊)
→ Adonisy:隊員內部氣氛不好，找不到人練，出去打比賽被幹翻
→ foda:包嫂並不是沒有問題
→ Coshower:在特殊環境下 能夠相信什麼 不能相信什麼 選擇都很有限阿
→ foda:然後不問隊員傷勢 就判定隊員偷懶 根本腦袋有___
推 sezna:不是有去問包哥嘛 包哥說沒 結果他也不信啊
推 GUYDA:這點很怪..你的老闆是包哥 你是隊內王牌 你有疑問
→ lpca:沒吧 這邊MMA是講他不敢跟包嫂說 怕J經理被罵
推 shoe:包嫂更早之前也有問，他說不要啊
推 kenco:看起來包嫂講得大部分都沒錯。j也如我所猜的是年紀跟選相近
→ GUYDA:你不去找老闆談談 何況包哥對MMA期望這麼高...
推 OnlyTD:問了包哥 包哥說沒有 你又不信包哥 然後事後哭腰包嫂 WTNE?
→ kenco:志趣相合的朋友
→ sezna:"所以我去找包哥 包哥知道事態的嚴重"
→ suwilliam:也點出包嫂對選手不像她自己形容的那麼好~所以才不信任
→ Aggro:真的是涉世未深 被壞朋友帶壞qq
→ foda:包嫂是個還沒搞清楚狀況就在吵架的人 就算不是壞人也有點白目
→ sezna:"所以他去查證了幾天，後來說沒有什麼個人贊助的事情"
推 Adonisy:其實我不覺得包嫂沒問隊員傷勢，alicia去打 mlg都送食物
→ lpca:他就相信J經理呀 包嫂又那麼兇 誰敢跟她說呀XD
→ Adonisy:然後 alicia故意沒提到這段，你說怎麼辦？
→ OnlyTD:從MMA的聲明來看 包嫂講的話大多是事實 但是也看的出包嫂
→ GUYDA:那去問是過了1~2周問題抱出來 他也已經表現出不滿了
推 kullan:包嫂就是過分干擾的老媽 年輕人不喜歡
→ OnlyTD:處理事情的手段不好  跟隊員的相處不融洽 但你也不能說包嫂
→ kenco:所以J要搞鬼真的太容易了。畢竟還是J距離近而包哥包嫂距離遠
→ Genesys:包嫂蠻情緒化的........
→ OnlyTD:實際上的作法有錯  頂多就只能說他老媽子那樣
→ GUYDA:包嫂肯定也有發覺MMA態度變了  這種情況再去詢問就差很多
→ OnlyTD:他的作法從MMA的聲明中 看起來是有問題 但不是壞的
→ Adonisy:不過包嫂不是不常在嗎？怎麼和隊員處不好？
→ lpca:包嫂很氣J經理吧 MMA都聽他的...
推 Coshower:總的來看大概就像小色一開始發表的看法那樣吧
→ momogo11:大概就是那樣沒錯......
→ lpca:不過J經理也是他們自己找來的 所以也不是沒有責任啦
→ OnlyTD:小色的看法就別提了  都被其他聲明打臉了
推 foda:對阿 小色說得沒錯
→ Adonisy:包嫂不常在，J經理常在，MMA被 J帶壞是可預期的
推 callwilliam:MMA亡命大空投  能逆轉星海人生呢  讓我們繼續看下去
→ OnlyTD:你頂多說小色的第1點有他自己的看法
推 Taeja:太假智商比較高 鄉民很愛用他來當坦 說好的轉隊費呢
→ Coshower:也許包嫂自以為對戰隊投入很多(也可能真的很多) 但明顯那
→ GUYDA:小色那篇 算了吧 直接黑包哥戰隊不加入被搞應該 哪裡一樣了
→ foda:小色說一開始就和其他戰隊不同陣線 這邊就說明包嫂根本無__
→ Coshower:份信賴完全無法傳達到隊員身上 但包哥就不同 MMA的聲明裡
→ Adonisy:太假根本不住宿怎麼比？遊戲王也不住宿
→ Coshower:可以看出他對包哥還是很尊敬的
→ GUYDA:全篇只有25%講的一樣 亂放砲25%就要變先知了
→ OnlyTD:1.個人看法 2是對的(基於包嫂) 3是錯的(Ace跑去A Won的主堡
→ Taeja:鄉民可以把轉隊費還給我嗎 科科
→ OnlyTD:4從這篇來看 包哥是有行動的 只是MMA不認同xD
→ Adonisy:包哥包嫂要 crank自已解決和隊友的關係問題，而MMA是crank
推 capssan:都砲高轉隊費 證據呢~~~= = 最少被勒索的是哪隊知道吧
推 kenco:小色的看法就是跟大環境大團體走啊...不加盟他認為很異端
→ Coshower:其實我主要講小色那篇是想到1 XD
→ Adonisy:的好友...所以這段我覺得隊內關係沒有人說怎麼回事
→ OnlyTD:我覺得1的個人看法  包嫂不是什麼好女人這點
→ OnlyTD:不如說他在戰隊管理上太老媽子了  可是這又不是他專業領域
推 sezna:所以高轉隊費到底是 MMA自己都"聽說"
→ GUYDA:你只看缺點自然不是好人.. 你要不要問問包哥怎看包嫂?
→ capssan:真的太把戰隊當自己小孩來管了 而且是怪物家長式的管理
推 foda:就跟媽媽跟小孩說要怎麼游泳自己卻根本不會游泳是一樣的阿
→ capssan:有人攻擊到自己小孩就毫不講理跟對方亂幹 不管對方是誰
→ foda:根本搞笑
推 lpca:以結果來說 只能說戰隊管理的很失敗
→ capssan:然後總是自以為比小孩更懂 要小孩照她的作法就對了
→ Coshower:真是老媽子 就更該好好保護選手阿 就算戰隊要解散了
→ momogo11:轉隊費只能看EG TL這些要不要出來發表看法
推 OnlyTD:高轉隊費 結果是MMA自己聽說XD  後面才知道是0  哪招啊wwww
→ capssan:她現在就是個心寒的老媽子 絕得自己付出一切換來這樣
推 Aggro:應該說覺得這樣全都是為了選手好 不知道他們在胡思亂想什麼
推 kenco:失敗是所託非人吧。不然他當黑臉，信得過的人當白臉沒問題
→ GUYDA:包嫂很簡單啊 最後他選擇保護包哥 不讓包哥去SKT1被說閒話
推 Adonisy:其實光頭下醫療艇騙毒爆當年是包嫂建議包哥用的
→ guest001:老媽子？從這篇來說，包嫂根本就是完全失敗的經營者
→ Coshower:話說包嫂對包哥說"為什麼不用這戰術"的口吻好鄉民 XD
→ GUYDA:最後取捨他選擇包哥 所以才有後續這些說法
→ momogo11:0是後來一個月才變的..
推 tim855042:包嫂應該專注自己事業 啥都要管  科科
→ OnlyTD:包嫂總來根本鄉民吧!?
→ Coshower:包嫂也是鍵宗一派阿(讚)
→ GUYDA:不然當初不也一堆包哥去SKT1的陰謀論?
→ fatdoghusky:包嫂不懂星海~????? 不至於吧...
→ OnlyTD:MMA的說法是 他在一個月之後的對談才知道轉隊費為0
→ guest001:什麼都要自己先搞不說明會變成這樣根本不意外
→ Aggro:女人咩 有時候會插嘴很正常 哪個女人不插嘴(個人心得...orz
→ OnlyTD:一個月前後  到底有高額還是0  中間有沒有變  要問MMA
→ momogo11:我覺得鄉民還比較專業..
推 foda:包嫂教包哥打SC2跟鄉民覺得GSL選手該怎麼打SC2根本是同狀況
→ OnlyTD:Agg心有戚戚焉!?XD
→ momogo11:鄉民應該不會蠢到跑去指責老包
推 sezna:包哥沒出來抱怨的話 MMA扯這個是很不利的
推 tim855042:包哥不是經營戰隊的料 包嫂也不是管理的料 就這樣
推 eric1112:真的太好笑了 包嫂看網站後告訴包哥要怎麼打
→ OnlyTD:怎麼會變成包嫂自己不說明??  選手會怕不敢問 人家怎麼知道
推 jumpballfan:看了後覺得包嫂好像某總統 不是專業人卻甚麼都要管
→ Coshower:鄉民: 為什麼不用雷神打巨像 / 為什麼不選P平A <--這樣嗎
推 capssan:完全沒證據說明真的有索高額 最少對象是哪隊知道吧= =
推 RKO771022:有人有沏身之痛XD?
→ eric1112:結果就是鄉民誤導
→ OnlyTD:MMA講到包嫂和包哥的戰術八卦 如果包哥出來講...會死很慘
→ Aggro:這應該很多人都有吧T^T
推 Adonisy:咦，包嫂會給包哥建議啊，你真以為所有戰術都包哥想的？
→ momogo11:他們兩個結婚了沒阿
推 Taeja:昨天那個蔡筆 真的是努力型選蘇 科科
→ Adonisy:剛講的光頭下醫療艇騙毒爆，包哥自已說是包嫂的建議
→ OnlyTD:而且包哥當初的生涯剪輯  有提到包嫂會幫包哥很多東西
→ OnlyTD:包括會自己去看其他RP/比賽 然後問包哥如何如何
→ Aggro:包哥包嫂沒問題吧 那些頂多像是兩人間的相處模式
→ RKO771022:這...心有戚戚焉阿 Agg...T^T
推 sezna:MMA昨天最後一場打得很....
→ Adonisy:這和會不會打沒關吧....
推 s8923135:看起來就是一切都是信了J之後轉對包嫂不信任引起的
→ OnlyTD:從MMA講出來就變成爭執了xDDD?
→ s8923135:等看包嫂怎麼回~
→ sezna:就等看包嫂怎麼回
推 kenco:這也要看包哥對包嫂的意見接受度如何。鄉民跟包嫂差地遠了
推 capssan:包嫂早回應了不是嗎? 不知道有沒有轉成英文就是了
→ eric1112:一切都是鄉民的錯 (誤)
→ guest001:MMA有講包嫂管包哥的打法「不對」嗎XDDDD
→ fatdoghusky:mma這篇其實證明了包嫂講得很多經營上困境不是亂掰的
→ foda:MMA這種會相信J經理的人的智商 不會捏造事實 所以MMA說吵架的
→ foda:的部分應該是真的
→ fatdoghusky:隊裡有內奸 隊外有抵制、有謠言攻擊
→ sezna:MMA都說是包嫂害包哥退休了
推 Coshower:結果包嫂是在吃醋 : 你為什麼愛J不愛我??!
推 sakubo:各種被搞
推 Adonisy:與其是包嫂害包哥退，還不如是人族太弱讓包哥想退
推 neojames:以前Slayers隊員訪問最後都會謝謝加鹽姐，如今...
推 s8923135:夫妻吵架又沒什麼 要看嚴重程度
推 kgppra:MMA沒交過女朋友喔 他不知道有時候情侶就是會吵來吵去的?
→ Aggro:以MMA的判斷力 是不是吵架我持保留態度
→ Adonisy:包哥可是在星際二一開始就說 p imba的神人啊....
→ Aggro:更別說夫妻間沒吵架才神奇 方式不同而已 基本上沒吵架只有兩
推 pigmark:我看完只覺得關鍵是那個"可能的個人贊助"？
推 OnlyTD:MMA去問了包哥  包哥查沒個人贊助的事情 MMA還是去信了J經
推 foda:別再說IMBA了好嗎 使用的人才是最重要的 別再搞笑了.......
→ OnlyTD:l2p  孩子(Mvp:咦?
→ guest001:這篇如果為真，包嫂的問題可絕對不只是老媽子而已
→ pigmark:然後想把事情導向合約太複雜以及包嫂管理問題上
→ fatdoghusky:因為包嫂所以想退休這也有可能是閒聊的抱怨 結果被mma
→ fatdoghusky:公開拿出來講 這不太厚道
→ Aggro:種可能 一種是兩人心意百分百契合 一種是心寒才不會吵=w=
→ OnlyTD:這篇的真相比例多少  先做保留  等看包嫂打Crank一波吧
→ OnlyTD:看看會不會還多線騷擾MMA
→ Aggro:扯到包哥 包嫂不知道這點會不會大力反擊-w-
推 Adonisy:當 mma開始不信任包嫂，之後的所有東西都不會相信....
推 ainew:搞不好人家是在打情罵俏XDD
→ OnlyTD:MMA這篇來看 包嫂一開始提出的說法都沒什麼問題
→ fatdoghusky:有時候聊天就是這樣 會順著對方立場講一些話
→ OnlyTD:但MMA和Crank都有反應出戰隊內部問題 如小色所說
→ OnlyTD:現在就看包嫂怎麼反A一波了
→ Adonisy:包嫂會買兩箱食物與比賽前買炸雞給隊員，以前也都感謝包嫂
→ Adonisy:後來馬上隊員翻臉，包嫂就變成任性老媽子？這說不通吧
→ ainew:我們注意到有簽約跟沒簽約的隊員沒有什麼待遇上的差別 <=
推 allqwdd:我看到TL上的文章就馬上翻了，完全沒看到有人翻了QQ
→ ainew:這可能加深心理不平衡
推 yogoyogo2006:比較想知道  最後會怎麼樣@@  感覺沒完沒了
→ foda:媽媽買吃的給小孩 小孩就該完全順從媽媽的???
推 RKO771022:all大拍拍  辛苦了XD"
→ OnlyTD:從MMA這篇聲明來推  星海人生差不多要落幕了...
推 saba1414:包嫂待人處世顯然有問題,而包哥就是怕老婆嘛~ 很好理解!
→ OnlyTD:這又不單單只是包嫂方的錯@@  根本兩邊有問題
→ OnlyTD:家長和孩子間也常常是這種模式 <欠缺妥善的溝通,造成隔閡>
→ saba1414:所以基本上包嫂的問題未必在這些壞孩子之下
→ OnlyTD:溝通不良的父母與小孩之間 常常出現這種鴻溝啊
→ saba1414:不會帶小孩的大人往往會變成跟孩子意氣用事...
→ guest001:包嫂的問題本來就比那些壞孩子大很多........
→ OnlyTD:小時候不懂 都忍著 然後憋出一波打老爸 等到會溝通
→ saba1414:學校那些爛老師不就是最好的例子
→ OnlyTD:才之後小時候自己的錯  老爸老媽頭髮都白了
→ GUYDA:說啥.. 看起來包嫂有問題沒錯 不過最大的問題不是包嫂
→ Adonisy:我只是有問題，以前感謝言必稱包嫂，突然直轉直下變成戰隊
→ Adonisy:惡人？你說這不是被洗腦是什麼？
→ OnlyTD:至於某些怪物家長/腦殘教師...還是溝通完正面All in他吧www
→ guest001:現在看來就是對外的場面話嘛
→ GUYDA:J內奸破獲內部氣氛  ESF謠言抵制外部活動 這才是最大問題
推 Flyingheart:可惜了 如果忍一下轉到SKT1 包哥必會給高薪的
推 ping1777:一個女人毀了包哥、戰隊、跟一堆人
推 Sechslee:話只講一半科科 小挑錯:是MLG不是MLB
推 sezna:包哥:我回sktl上位
推 corner0111:毀了包哥?  你再想深一點
→ corner0111:為什麼這件事在包哥skt1上位這一天揭發
→ GUYDA:包嫂是來保護包哥的 不然根本不必要澄清
→ Aggro:女人為了男人暴走很正常
→ guest001:這根本不是澄清，只是亂鬥而已吧
→ GUYDA:那是你的想法 在此之前 包哥是臥底之類的說法可是層出不窮
→ GUYDA:現在還有多少人在說包哥是臥底? 砲火都到包嫂身上了
推 mysterydream:女人不意外 得失心超重
推 jack19931993:一大早要戰男女了嗎? (咬蛋餅)
推 OnlyTD:兩篇翻譯內容的意思稍有不同  是因為韓文?
推 LOKI930351:怒推MMA，包嫂食屎!MMA是對的!
推 gargoyles:最大問題應該是選手覺得簽約以後沒有得到實質利益
→ gargoyles:首先這個約不知道是什麼時候簽的  姑且猜是剛好一年的約
→ gargoyles:也就是11/6  這時候已經很多選手都打出名氣
推 kira925:約是未成立Slayers之前簽的 MMA有說
→ gargoyles:但名氣畢竟不能當飯吃  簽約後發現好像跟簽約前沒不同
推 chienk:真倒楣 得罪包嫂
→ guest001:看訪談，比較要命的應該是即使MMA轉隊，包嫂也能收到錢
→ guest001:的這種合約吧
→ gargoyles:所以MMA才會相信J的片面之詞(不過會去相信這個也是笨笨)
→ gargoyles:包嫂包哥和底下簽約的選手溝通嚴重不足  我覺得包嫂注意
→ gargoyles:的點又比較不同  像是Alicia的接機事件
※ 編輯: claus           來自: 140.112.133.187      (10/23 10:56)
※ 編輯: claus           來自: 140.112.133.187      (10/23 10:57)
推 Saza:MMA正面很猛阿 誰說他正面不行的
推 gargoyles:因為這幾個ganzi alicia puzzle ryung可以說是主力隊員
→ gargoyles:應該是之後有換過約吧?
推 kira925:TIG有說 只有他們五個有約 其他人沒有
推 juicylove:MMA這篇看起來沒什破綻啊  大致理解是 J經理先搞出事
→ juicylove:戰隊氣氛不好 包嫂又不承認管理疏失 只有MMA跟CRANK出頭
→ juicylove:兩人就被包嫂當成破壞隊上和諧的原兇 但兩人覺得自己根
→ juicylove:本沒做什麼 最後想離開就出現一大堆和約問題
推 Saza:包掃從頭到尾都不肯承認經營有問題 都是J跟esf害了Slayers阿
推 capssan:如果經營一開始就有問題GOLDEN還會發那篇感謝文嗎..
→ capssan:包嫂肯定認為自己沒問題 J來才搞亂
→ OnlyTD:問題就是包嫂自己也有責任  但聲明至今全推給J/Cr/MMA等人
→ OnlyTD:自已感覺一整個良好  實際上J來之前有隱憂卻被爆開
推 juicylove:聽起來J來之前情況是很好的 也有一部份是隊員待得還不
→ juicylove:夠久 所以一些問題還沒有被發現跟放大 (EX 交通問題)
→ capssan:他們都說問題在J來之前就有 但是都沒說清楚到底是為什麼
→ juicylove:後來就是下面的人覺得很有問題 上層的覺得沒什麼問題
→ capssan:就只因為包嫂愛戰? 我總覺得這是因為J事件之後被放大
→ juicylove:等到問題爆發了 上面就把責任怪到下面的人上頭
推 sakaizawa:那女的真是夠了
→ juicylove:反正包嫂管理好不好很難介定 但當覺得戰隊差想離隊 合約
→ juicylove:上就不允許 所以局勢完全倒向包嫂這邊
→ momogo11:應該是平常管理有問題 J剛好是引爆點
→ guest001:管成這樣還能說管理好喔...............
→ juicylove:因為合約上並沒有 "覺得戰隊氣氛差可以無償離隊"
→ momogo11:然後CRANK傻傻衝第一 又沒留證據
→ momogo11:還好TB肯收他 不然他被轟也沒辦法還手
→ juicylove:所以一但提出離隊選手那邊的立場就完全佔不住腳
→ evilraistlin:廢話 以前沒翻臉當然要感謝包嫂 不想幹了嗎...
→ OnlyTD:正常離隊狀況 戰隊允許 那麼沒話說  戰隊方認定不正常就...
→ momogo11:有合約當然站不住腳阿 連隔壁棚領2000的都要認命了
→ guest001:推有合約領2000都要認命XD
推 kira925:但又一個角度是Crank這種沒合約的....
推 capssan:西門真的認命多了 MMA這些還在努力抗戰
推 a524528:CRANK跟龍哥一樣只是讓人不爽而以沒違約阿，不然要罰錢
推 Saza:CRANK不是沒合約嗎?
→ j9145:MMA不愧是MMA，陣型一下就拉開，要正面硬幹包嫂主力了!
推 gargoyles:Crank大概是一般咖約  MMA是演藝咖約  Crank完全沒約
→ gargoyles:不太可能  能掛上Slayers的名字多少都有些約束力在
推 allqwdd:Crank沒有合約
→ momogo11:不努力抗戰 這些人一輩子黑掉了
推 kira925:沒有分 就真的是沒有合約 TIG就是寫除了起始五人外都沒約
→ momogo11:而且開第一槍還不是他們
→ momogo11:所以CRANK人很NICE吧 還跟他談一堆 沒約直接閃比較快
推 allqwdd:樓上不能這麼說吧 像當初Ganzi也是沒合約 事情也鬧的不小
→ allqwdd:所以不管有無合約 都會要跟戰隊講清楚 Crank說他不是要跳
→ allqwdd:槽 但最後包嫂認定他要跳槽 Crank瞬間變個騙子
→ momogo11:他有講阿 科科
推 a524528:就只是不爽而已Y
→ momogo11:GANZI那個不能比 兩個情況差太多
推 allqwdd:Crank後來的行為很像是要找國外戰隊 包嫂認定是這樣
→ allqwdd:就把他當騙子 但Ganzi表示他只想賺生活費
→ momogo11:沒合約 還規定別人找戰隊一定要讓她知道也很怪
推 kira925:Ganzi有合約 沒合約的是Taeja...
→ momogo11:如果CRANK像GANZI一樣 學到一堆再馬上跑 還可以酸他沒良
→ momogo11:心 問題SLAYER那環境...
→ momogo11:恩 所以是他太傻了 應該學GANZI 要轉當天在講 然後直接
→ momogo11:走人 這樣都沒事
→ Saza:竿子還有放話IM之類的事情也都沒講 默默的低調比較沒事
推 DoRNi:包嫂就是你媽 他在宿舍很火(？
推 finaltrial:推啊，MMA太棒啦，就看包嫂這次要怎麼說 XD
推 rotusea:什麼叫做沒有選擇只能相信.... 這處事有點幼稚啊...
→ apfalselife:對包嫂"失誤"..這字翻的有點敏感
推 Saza:因為他說包嫂都不講阿 只能單方面接收J訊息 聽久就洗腦了
推 Korsechi:嘴上說相信包嫂 但文中行為明顯只信J 自己的事輕輕帶過
推 suwilliam:這種個人聲明大多都是挑對自己有利的說囉~哪邊都一樣啊
推 chuckni:簡單的說兩邊都有隱瞞，現在兩邊都被逼得開始說真話了
噓 stevenyenyen:超好笑 如果兩邊沒問題 有誰能挑撥起雙方來
→ stevenyenyen:每次看推文 都一堆無腦護航
推 Lattecafem:超討厭包嫂
推 tsungg:bozo
→ LOKI930351:一開始沒感覺中立現在超討厭包嫂
推 putare:看完以後，站在MMA的角度，我也沒辦法信任包嫂
→ putare:而且她的確沒有承擔 經營戰隊能力的失誤!!
推 loserlin:看完後覺得MMA的說法有點前後不一
推 tsairay:MMA是很典型的中了離間吧....
推 RWAllenL:愈來愈覺得包嫂就是無良老闆 把名子改成TT肯定被噓到爆
推 RKO771022:包嫂比較像管理有問題  說無良我覺得不對= ="
推 RWAllenL:管理有問題 人跑了卻只會怪選手 整天找選手戰
推 zikuanliu:MMA趁著打針timing給了強勢一波
推 g1409:感覺包嫂不簡單阿........
推 suwilliam:從前面一些內容來看~包嫂還不至於無良~頂多是沒帶到軍心