Re: [討論] PVP 野德與破甲屬性

[gully (溝鼠)]

※ 引述《gully (溝鼠)》之銘言：
: AJ的討論原串
: http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=79611
: [Feral] Armor Penetration... gems?
: Cendrid:
: Anyone considering stacking up some ArP this season with the changes to the
: bonus? I've read about the PvE hero math, but wondering if anyone else has
: given this a consideration for S6 instead of either Agi or Str.
有人想過在這季破甲強化後疊一些破甲嘛?我試著打PvE的英雄木人測試

但我還是有些疑問,在S6到底要替代掉敏或者是力量呢?

: Miirkat:
: There are 2 boundary lines about ArPen:
: At about 350 ArPen with RIP idol and 200 ArPen with Shred idol, ArPen becames
: a better stats than agility.
: For a similar reason at about 230 ArPen Shred idol becames better than RIP
: idol.
: This is when considering a boss's armor, which this particular theorycraft
: lists it at 10643 armor. ArP is a percentage amount, so you'll see more
: benefit
: on place than you would on cloth.
: However, theorycrafting doesn't count in the defensive gains of agility
: because
: that doesn't apply in PVE. Having more dodge and armor does help since people
: realize they sit on you as a feral.
這裡有兩個關於破甲的最佳界限:

當使用撕扯塑像時大約350破甲,當使用撕碎塑像時大約200破甲

會比敏來的優秀

這是考慮到王大約10643點護甲,所以你要另外思考破甲屬性對於布甲的效益

對PvE來說,堆起更多護甲和閃躲就是野性的王道

: 1 Agi = 0.02544% Dodge
: 1 Agi = 2.12 Armor
: 1 Agi = 1.166 AP (Cat only)
: 1 Agi = 0.01272% Crit
: 1 ArPenRating = 0.065% ArmorPenetration
1敏=0.25444%閃躲

1敏=2.12護甲

1敏=1.166ap(貓)

1敏=0.01272%爆擊

1破甲等級=0.065%護甲穿透

: Assuming I have 10 gem slots available, it would be
: 10 slots X 16 agility X 0.02544 = 4.0704% dodge
: 10 slots X 16 agility X 2.21 = 353.6 armor
: 10 slots X 16 agility X 6% (Survival of the Fittest) X 1.166 = 197.7536 attack
: power
: 10 slots X 16 agility X 6% (Survival of the Fittest) X 0.01272 = 2.157312%
: crit
當我有10個寶石插槽時:

10*16敏*0.02544=4.0704%的 閃躲

10*16敏*2.21=353.6 護甲

10*16敏*6%(適者生存)*1.166=197.7536 ap

10*16敏*6%(適者生存)*0.01272=2.157312% cri

: VS

: 10 slots X 16 armor penetration X 2.21 = 10.4% armor penetration
: On plate with 13k armor, 10.4% ArP would result in 1352 armor reduction.
: On cloth with 4k armor, 10.4% ArP would result in 416 armor reduction.
10*16護甲穿透等級*2.21=10.4% 破甲

作用在13k的護甲身上會減少1352點護甲

作用在 4k的護甲身上會減少 416點護甲

: Hope my numbers are correct, don't want to mislead anyone. Not really sure
: what
: to conclude after this though.
: EDIT:
: Sorry I completely forgot Agility gives AP and Crit @.@
: Personally I don't know how Savage Roar comes into play here, on top of Glyph
: of Savage Roar. Considering that was well, I can safely say that Agility will
: be better.
希望我的數據是正確的,不會誤導人

編輯:

抱歉,我完全忘了敏有給AP和Cri,我個人不知道兇蠻咆嘯在這裡是怎麼運作的

不過經過深思熟慮之後,我可以說敏還是比破甲等級好

: Aliandren:
: did the arpen theorycraft update after the blizz post explaining the soft cap
: on arpen?
這個破甲數據有在Bz解釋破甲運作方式之後升級過嘛 ?

: Cendrid:
: plugging numbers into CharDev.org, seems like I can only manage to grab 9 ArP
: (145 ArP rating).
: As a quick comparison, since I am not a super theorycrafter:
: Using Surge Needle and Strong Handed ring, along with Deadly Gladiator's Neck
: and Cloak of Victory - I need 32 hit rating, so I opted to use 1X16 Gem and
: 2X8hit/8agi gems for 168 hit rating total.
: Base stats with current gear and agility gemming, put me at 1279 agility, 0
: ArP. With ArP gemming I have 1118 agility and 9 ArP.
我將數據輸入了 CharDev.org ,然後我將破甲調到9%(145破甲等級)

雖然我不是個專業的數據計算者,不過來個快速對照:

穿上磁濤極針和強力掌握戒指,勝利致命鬥士項鍊和斗篷,我還需要32命中

因此我塞進一個16命中和兩個8敏8命中寶石來達到168命中等級

調整正確的裝備和敏捷寶石,我從1279敏 0破甲 達到了 1118敏和 9%破甲

: Miirkat: rw:Cendrid
: Problem is, you can't just take numbers theorycrafters throw at you for PVP
: because those are based on PVE situations where you are able to pull out a dps
: rotation over a long period of time without interruptions.
回覆Cendrid:

問題是你不能像PvE一樣的單純計算數據,PvP不能完美的作到循環


: Cendrid:
: I think agility is still better, because yeah, this isn't Ulduar, ect. and the
: crit/SR buff/dodge/armor still outweighs straight damage
我想敏捷還是比較好

沒錯,這裡不是奧杜亞

所以 爆擊/SR buff/閃躲/護甲 這些還是必要的屬性

: Ampere:
: I'm trying ArP right now since I plan on using some pve pieces in my pvp set
: which I'll have gemmed ArP for pve purposes. It's pretty nice so far...
: putting
: out more pressure than ret pallys, DKs, and warriors toe-to-toe. Only teams I
: see agility stacking being more beneficial is priest/rogue, which we have no
: problem beating anyways.
我現在在嚐試撐一些破甲等級,我打算在PvP的時候穿一些PvE裝備,

我會選有破甲的套件或者塞進一些破甲寶石來達到目的,目前為止還不錯...

對上懲戒騎,DK,戰士時很有用,唯一一個敏捷效益大於破甲的隊伍是賊牧

不過我們對上他們要贏沒什麼問題

: Aliandren:
: i think agility too since SR'ed rake/rip is such a huge part of our damage
: output right now, the AP from agility plus the crit on rips is solid.
: Dodge/armor and cp generation on builder attacks critting more as well.
我想敏捷有支援到的掃擊和撕扯佔了我們傷害很大的部分

敏捷提供的ap還有cri對撕扯助益非常大

護甲,閃躲,集點的速度都是敏捷能提供效益的一部分

: Evii:
: Agility for sure, for all of the PvP reasons mentioned above and several
: others.
: The most important to me being short duration combo point generation and
: increased burstiness.
當然是選敏捷拉,生存在PvP也是非常重要的部分

最重要的是縮短集星時間來爆發對手

: Ampere:
: So I've come to the conclusion that if you only do 2s ArP is a pretty decent
: stat to gem for. But if you do 3s a lot you're gonna want agility
所以讓我來下個結論吧,插兩個破甲寶石剛剛好,3個就有點多了


看起來參與討論的玩家大部分傾向敏>破甲

So as I

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◆ From: 140.127.186.8
→ fewhy:其實最前面的破甲效率算法錯了.... 所以破甲更沒那麼好
推 catstupid:其實我忘了亞歷斯是誰...
→ gully:附帶一提這是4月23號起的討論串...破甲公式有沒有改我不清處
推 azsxazsxa:127到底是哪邊阿 高大? 義守?
→ fewhy:破甲公式就是之前有討論說實際上有某種效率上限機制這樣
→ garfunkel:亂入一下，So as I好像怪怪的 囧