Subject: [themirror] Internet Message
Kevin Moore freely admitted that his path musically was different
that the other DT member's, and while we were all sad to see him go(
some of DT's greatest tunes, were penned by him) Derek does add a
very unique flavor to the band and i think he fits in quite well
indeed.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
Easier????? You obviously haven't listened closely to New Millenium, or
Trial of Tears.... I think the difference you are mistaking for "backing
off" is simply musical maturity in the band. Their accomplishment in
creativity comes through more subtle yet equally difficult arrangements.
For instance, the percussion on New Millenium is unbelievable. Just because
you may not hear JP ripping out a 100 note arpeggio doesn't mean the
music(time signature changes, key changes, etc) is any less difficult.
As a closing argument....
HOW could you even mention that name in the same sentence with Dream
Theater????
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
I strongly disagree with you about "You Not ME". I think too many DT fans
focus to individually on single ingredients of the songs. Granted the music
is not overpowering, but the lyrics dabble in an extremely controversial
issue. Christians feel the need to extend their belief and lifestyle to
those around them, even(especially) family members, regardless of their
willingness to listen. Also, the vocals on this song are great. James
doesn't utilize harmonic backing vocals nearly as often as I would like.
The chorus to "You Not Me" is a wonderful example of his talent.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
I aggree totally...listen to metalica for instance...there albums load and
unload are very different compared to their previous albums....everyone
thought and wanted the new albums to sound like the old stuff, but its
inevitable that the stlye is going to change musically and mentally.....i
thiink what DT tryed to do with the FII was try to get an equal mixture of
both flashy licks and great songwriting!..I think they achieved that very
well...All this crap about people hecklin DT cuz they "sold out" is really
getting to me...were not "real" fans if we contantly criticise and nit pick
every piece of music the band has!.....
just my opinion!...
feel free to scrutinize or whatever...thats what i
feel....latahh!------Talas
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
you know. this selling out argument reminds me a lot of the arguments people
had regarding Metallica when they made Load. I didn't think that they sold out
when Load came out, but when ReLoad came out, it seemed like they sold out. AS
of now, Dream Theater is not selling out. They're writing music to how they
feel. It's the soundtrack to their lives, and if they;re happy with it, us
fans should respect it. Now, if the next album sounds a lot like IAW, then so
be it. They don;t have to write super fast music to be the best prog band in
the world. Sure, FII isn;t as technically mind boggling as ACOS, or IAW, but
the songs ont he album are still great. Peruvian Skies has to be one of the
best Dream Theater songs of all time., but look at it;s simplicity. To me, FII
proves that Dream Theater has the musical capacity to make any kind of music
they want to. and every one of their songs sounds unique, they each have their
own voice. I think that the next studio album might be another techique
oriented album. I've read in countless interviews about the song "Metropolis-
Part 2". Petrucci says that's it's over 30 minutes long, and is probably the
most technically challening thing they've ever done. ok, that's my...15 cents.
Later
kevin
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Subject: [themirror] Portnoy Clinic in Phoenix
Hey all AZ Jammers... Portnoy's clinic in Phoenix will be at Gibson's in Tempe
(I guess it is close to Mill Ave. and 3rd or 5th) this coming Monday (I think
doors open around 6pm (call the Guitar Center in Tempe for details)... I'll be
driving up for it, probably wearing a Ytsejam shirt so flag me down and say
hi... I am sure the usual Phoenix metalhead crew will be there, right Vinnie,
Eckie, et al? :-)
NP: Dalbello "Whomanfoursays" -- with the original version of "Gonna Get Close
To You" that Queensryche covered on Rage For Order... pretty trippy stuff...
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Subject: [themirror] Internet Message
Chops alone do not make a band great, a great band makes a band great.
Just because the music on FII "sounds" less technical ( it is not,
if you listen closely) mean there is anything wrong in what they are
doing.
Take LTE for an example. The band member's are doing what i
personally feel a real musician does, they are testing the limits or
their own abilities, musically and lyrically, by expanding their
influences, and trying different things. I personally say "KUDOS" to
them for doing it, and doing it a lot better than most other
musicians do!
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
>Also, I have no idea why Dream Theater decided to work with Derek
>Sherinian instead of Jens Johanson or Jordan Rudess, who are both
>superior keyboard players in my opinion.
As a friend and student of Jordan's, DT did want him, but he turned them
down. I have no idea about Jens, though.
>And the technical aspect aside, while reading an interview with
>Sherinian I come to find out he doesn't even like Dream Theater's
>music done before he started playing with them. He seems to think
>that his influence on the band has made Dream Theater a good band,
>which he doesn't think it was before. Who know's. If that is the
>case, I think he's a conceeded pric, but I'm sure I could be
>missinformed.
Now THAT'S interesting! I'd believe it, though. At the same time, it
could be a bunch of B.S., too.
I can't help but agree with the fact that FII is an incredibly
commercial change. However, it doesn't have to be a bad thing....they
just have to learn to do it better. Afterall, Rush (BTW, a great
example) and ELP had to work to get it right too. This is only the
beginning, and it sure would be nice to have stadiums full (in USA)
instead of clubs. I just hope they won't lose their progressiveness for
popularity.
Oh well. That's my $.02!!
Josh Martin
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Subject: [themirror] Re: "Religious innuendoes"
"Withdrawn and Introverted, Infectiously Perverted
Being laughed at and confused
Keeps us pleasantly amused enough to stay."
my understanding of it was that they had a contempt for organized
religion, which many people (including christians) do. Many of their
religious allusions could be taken in that context to mean that these
things have been perverted into a harmful form.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: "Religious innuendoes"
KingSize18@aol.com wrote:
>
> For one, the "Mary, Mary " part from lie is more of a nursery line than a
> reference to the Virgin Mary.
Well, this is where you can really see some brilliant Kevin Moore
lyrics. He
takes a simple nursery rhyme, and on the surface what appears to be some lyrics
about a failed relationship between he and a woman...but there is more in this
if you dig a little deeper... Definately the "Mary, Mary" is also a religious
reference. After speaking to people who have known Kevin personally, he does
not just throw lyrics out there off the top of his head, there is a little
thought behind them. Lie also reveals later on some more religious imagery
"Doubting Thomas", "Two more coming" (the second coming), etc... I think what
this song really represents is the disillusionment of the the main character
with his relationship with a woman and with his relationship to God. If you
read the lyrics once through with the perspective of a man feeling his
relationship with a woman is disolving, you can definately get that out of it.
Then read it again from the perspective of a man who is disillusioned by his
faith for whatever reason, and who is questioning the truth behind what he
believes. It's a pretty powerful combination all in one seemingly simple set of
lyrics.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
I would just like to quote the song "Hooker With a Penis" by Tool
"All you know about me is what I've sold ya, dumb fuck, I sold out long
before you ever even heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record,
dipshit, then you bought one."
All bands have already sold out. They make whatever music they want after
that!
PEACE
Nick
"I don't run around, trying to be what's not within me. Look into my
eyes, I am free. You're just a wannabe!"
-"Clown" Korn-
"Ora che ho perso la vista, ci vedo di piu."
-"Take The Time" Dream Theater-
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
i mentioned Jens Johanson cause I know him and John P have been trying
to work together for a long time.. from what I hear, he was going to
work on the LTE project, but after it got postponed the first time he
was working on other projects. It's no big deal though. Rudess is
awesome, and was perfect for Liquid Tension Experiment. God, I wish he
hadn't turned down DT's offer. I really don't like Sherinian. I don't
like what he did on Explorers club and most everything else he's done
has been kinda pop oriented. (What's with the Prince tribute!!) He's a
good keyboard player, but I don't like his attitude, and I don't think
he's as good as some other DT options. Anyways, Josh, since you know
Jordan you can tell him that I think he's amazing :) Maybe he'd drop me
a line sometime or something :) (Inferno_one@hotmail.com).. I think FII
had some really beautifull lyrics and the style they chose to play was
done very professionally, but I also kinda think they made a conscious
effort to become more mainstream.. oh well :) good music no matter what
they do..
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
Jason,
Obviously you never heard "You Or Me"!! That was the original song
before Desmond and Kevin messed it up. It has the same rhythm, similar
music, and similar lyrics but the song sounds more like Dream Theater.
The same message is being sent to the listener, but it is also pleasing
to listen to.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: "Religious innuendoes"
i won't deny that DT has religious referneces, especially in Voices, Lie etc.
But they aren't aginst religion
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Subject: [themirror] once in a live time
I've just bought the album this afternoon, and my first impression is : DT
managed to put the fun they have with their music on this CD.
Not like Iron Maiden lives for examples, with perfect playing songs, with only
people crying around.
This album is really great, because of its natural, and its a surprising one.
But don't even think of having the same songs as you are used to listen.
I think I am just back some months ago, when I saw DT at La Roche Sur Yon in
France.
Last thing, the cover is really great, and the art is a good one.
Bye , Seb.
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Subject: [themirror] a time bomb?
i think these two threads are becoming time bombs that could possibly
explode (what else?) and leave a lot of angry people. here's my 2
cents:
1. the most important thing i'm not seeing in many messages is _IMHO_.
There's a difference between offering your opinion and ramming it down
someone's throat. Please, if you don't intend the latter, indicate
that something is In Your Opinion.
2. It's useless to start a "DT is/isn't selling out" thread, because
you either feel one way or the other about it, and nobody will change
their opinion short of some catastophy. Please don't even START the
topic. May I suggest to our benevolent leader that this and a few
similar threads be banned in the rules? I submit that they cannot be
argued logically because whether one thing is "better" than another is
not logic, it is opinion, and ONLY opinion. Opinion cannot be argued,
so anyone unaware of that should be prevented from starting the
thread.
For anyone curious, here's the OPINION part of my message:
1. I think DT has contempt for what they feel are the bad parts of
religion. And why not?
2. DT is not selling out. FII was possibly less prog, but it was, IMO,
more art rock. It's _at_least_ as powerful as their previous work, but
in a different way. As an example, Pink Floyd is considered a prog
group of sorts, but they're not even that great at their instruments.
Dave Gilmour can't play guitar even moderately fast, but he's one of
the most emotional players I can think of. The quality of the music
need not be determined by one variable alone.
3. "Derek/Kevin (Shirley) killed DT" messages are the worst. Please,
save your pointless rantings for someone who wants to hear them.
4. Stop comparing DT to Alternica. the circumstances and degrees of
change were completely different. DT became something slightly
different but with the same quality of output, and alternica went from
a media-hating hard-core fan-loving band to just the opposite, with
the quality of their output suffering the most. DT never really
changed their views, as far as I can tell, about how much of factors
money and popularity are, and they still love their fans.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled noise.
rI=, carry on _ - _
\|_/ [pardon my english, i'm american] fluke@dmci.net /|\|/|\
_I__ FLuke's Stuff: http://www2.dmci.net/users/fluke \|/Y\|/
=== This Neverworld that you desire is only in your mind ~ - ~
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
I have both songs and You not me is the better song
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
Speaking from experience, Derek is a super nice guy and you can't knock his
ability. In my opinion Kevin Moore was the bets keyboard player DT will ever
have, but you can't cry over spilt milk. Derek is in DT not Jordan, end of
story
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
I just recently got a copy of the hollow years single and I have to agree, I
thought the exact same thing when I listened to it, "now this is DT!!!". It IS
basically the same thing but the bits and pieces taken out by Child and
Shirley gave it that DT sound. I like johnPs' playing on this version better
than the original.
peace to all,
Luis
(venskies.com webmaster)
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Subject: [themirror] Re: a time bomb?
I agree completly. I was among the first with the religion thread. I offer
apologies for any ruffled feathers. I love DT and nothing anyone says about
them could change my mind about that.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
That's ignorance, not everyband has sold out. The bands taht haven't are the
ones like Motley Crue, Pantera and Dream Theater. They are bands that just
made the music they wanted to make and did it on there terms. When I mention
the Crue, I am refering to their music not their choice of waredrobe for every
album, but if you really think about it, they were the originals. they were
copied after that
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Subject: [themirror] Re: a time bomb?
hey fluke
i totally agree. i looked at some of the posts/ so what if DT wants to back
off from their totally LOUD metallic techniques ? hey, maybe THEY dont want to
go deaf either! what do you think ?
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
i didnt really like derek's style....kev's was better on IAW ...but im a
classically trained musician..i got into jazz during junior high..now i do
classical and the like only baout twice a wee.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
i like You Not Me too...so what if its NOT like IAW ? give the guys a
break...we want our hearing as well!...but anyway....i do like You Not Me...i
know it had some religion stuff in it (?) but it reminds me of some people i
know from junior high.
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Subject: [themirror] Once In A Livetime
Did I see a message that someone has already bought the CD??
I thought the release date was 10/27.
P.S. Mike Portnoy is coming to Phoenix to do a drum clinic Monday, 10-26.
I can't wait.
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Subject: [themirror] Re: Once In A Livetime
At 05:15 PM 10/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Did I see a message that someone has already bought the CD??
>
>I thought the release date was 10/27.
That depends on where you live... I know it's been released in Holland
already, and most likely some other countries as well.
Lisa Marie "Jessie"
ytsegirl@pacbell.net
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Subject: [themirror] Re: a time bomb?
heh, heh. I don't think it has that much to do with how "heavy" it is.
the last part of PS is probably the heaviest they've done, anyway.
IMO, they wanted to give the music more feeling. I know the previous
albums had a lot of it, but IMO they still lacked a certain
_something_ (except ACOS). It's really an intangible thing, and I know
a lot of people don't agree with that, but oh, well; different people
look for different things in the music. I _think_ we can all agree
that DT was looking in a somewhat different direction on FII.
and thanks to the ones who are pursuing these threads tactfully and
politely. you're what this list is about. :)
rI=, carry on _ - _
\|_/ [pardon my english, i'm american] fluke@dmci.net /|\|/|\
_I__ FLuke's Stuff: http://www2.dmci.net/users/fluke \|/Y\|/
=== This Neverworld that you desire is only in your mind ~ - ~
==============================================================================
Subject: [themirror] Re: Is Dream Theater Backing Off?
In a message dated 10/22/98 9:19:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
craige@netnet.net writes:
<< I don`t know.... more DIFFICULTLY PERFORMED
I totally agree! I started this thread a while back and people were not too
pleased. But I think you're right. Mr. Shirley definitely influenced the
direction of FII. I think it took a turn for the worse. I haven't listened
to FII since about last November... I feel that Shadow Gallery and Enchants
new releases are much more enjoyable. >>
Hmm, interesting. Did anyone hear the first version of "Take Away My
Pain"?...not much more 'difficult', but it had alot more power and drama than
the FII released version....Shirley definetly had an influence. But, to tell
you the truth, I absolutely love FII. Mabey not like the old stuff, but its
great. I have a feeling, though, that in about a year or so, we'll see some
more intricate proggy stuff from the boys...why? Because DT is really
considering putting Metropolis p. 2 on te next album!...and, I 'think' thats
gonna be interesting....John P said its is about 25 minutes...aliright.