[情報] 諫山創在紐約時報專訪談巨人結局

[rayisgreat (在過往中無盡徘徊)]

‘Attack on Titan’ Ends How Its Creator Always Envisioned

By Rafael Motamayor  Nov. 5, 2023

As an anime phenomenon comes to a close, the story’s original creator, Hajime
 Isayama, breaks down a conclusion that “was pretty much there from the
beginning.”

隨著一部動漫現象的結束，故事的原作者諫山創

解析了一個“從一開始就幾乎已經確定”的結局

This interview contains spoilers for the finale of “Attack on Titan.”

本次採訪包含了《進擊的巨人》終章的劇透

On Saturday, the final episode of the anime adaptation of Hajime Isayama’s “
Attack on Titan” premiered on Crunchyroll and Hulu, ending an epic tale that
started back in 2013.

週六，《進擊的巨人》動畫版的最後一集在 Crunchyroll 和 Hulu 首播

結束了這個始於 2013 年的史詩般的故事。

Like the manga, which ran from 2009 to 2021, the anime was an instant hit,
becoming one of the defining shows of the modern anime era, with spinoffs,
live-action and video game adaptations, and even a comic book crossover with
Marvel’s “Spider-Man” and “Avengers” titles.

如同從 2009 年到 2021 年連載的漫畫，這部動畫一經播出便瞬間成為熱門

成為現代動畫時代的標誌性節目之一，衍生出了各種外傳、真人電影和電視遊戲改編

甚至還有與漫威的《蜘蛛人》和《復仇者聯盟》漫畫跨界合作。

Since the fourth and final season started airing in 2020, “Attack on Titan”
has been one of the most popular shows on the internet — episodes have
routinely trended on social media, streaming servers have occasionally crashed
, the opening theme song became a rare anime song to hit the U.S. Billboard
charts. Parrot Analytics said it was the most “in-demand” show in the world
in 2021, a metric based on analysis of streaming, social media, search and
other online behaviors. The manga has continued to be popular as well, selling
 over 120 million copies worldwide, and several of the published volumes have
charted on the New York Times graphic novels and manga best-seller list.

自從第四且是最後一季於 2020 年開始播放以來

《進擊的巨人》已成為網路上最受歡迎的節目之一

—劇集經常在社交媒體上引發熱議，串流媒體偶爾崩潰

主題曲更成為罕見的打入美國告示牌音樂排行榜的動畫歌曲

Parrot Analytics 表示

它在 2021 年成為世界上最受“需求”的節目

這一指標基於對串流媒體、社交媒體、搜尋和其他線上行為的分析

漫畫的人氣也持續不減在全球售出超過 1.2 億本

並且其中幾本已經登上了《紐約時報》的圖形小說和漫畫暢銷書榜單

What started as a thrilling yet relatively simple tale of a young boy seeking
revenge against the giant humanoid monsters that ate his mother quickly
evolved into a thought-provoking war epic. The tonal shift in “Attack on
Titan” also came with one of the biggest heel-turns in modern anime, with the
 protagonist, Eren Jaeger, devolving into a radicalized monster threatening
worldwide genocide.

最初是一個令人激動但相對簡單的故事

講述了一個年輕男孩對吞食了他母親的巨型人形怪物復仇

很快地演變成了一部引人深思的戰爭史詩

《進擊的巨人》的基調轉變也伴隨著現代動畫中最大的反派轉變之一

主角艾倫·葉格爾演變成了威脅全球種族滅絕的激進化怪物。

The final episode brings the battle of heaven and earth to a bloody end, with
Eren’s army of Titans destroyed at the hands of his former comrades — along
with 80 percent of the world population. Peace was achieved, but nothing good
lasts very long in the world of “Attack on Titan.”

最終集將天與地之戰帶至血腥的結局

艾倫指揮的巨人軍團在他昔日戰友的手中被摧毀—同時還有80%的世界人口

和平雖然被實現，但在《進擊的巨人》的世界中，好景卻不常。

Since the manga ended in 2021, there has been plenty of speculation and debate
 over Eren’s antagonistic turn and what the story’s ending means. Ahead of
the release of the final episode, the manga creator Hajime Isayama, speaking
through an interpreter, David Higbee, talks about the restrictive nature of
writing and the story’s dark ending. These are edited excerpts from the
interview.

自從漫畫在 2021 年結束以來

關於艾倫敵對轉變以及故事結局的含義，一直有著許多猜測和討論

在最後一集播出之前，漫畫創作者諫山創通過翻譯大衛·希比（David Higbee）

談論了寫作的限制性和故事的黑暗結局。以下是採訪中的編輯摘錄

===============================

The manga ended a couple of years ago, and the anime is just finishing now.
How do you feel about the story coming to an end?

漫畫在幾年前就結束了，而動畫現在才剛剛完結。您對故事走向終結有何感想？

For this anime to be made and for that to go beyond the borders of Japan and
to reach a worldwide audience is something that’s been a very happy
occurrence for me. In a sense, “Attack on Titan” has connected me to the
world, and that’s something that I’m very glad happened.

這部動畫得以製作，並且超越日本國界、觸及全球觀眾

對我來說是一件非常令人高興的事

從某種意義上講，《進擊的巨人》將我與世界連接起來，這是我非常慶幸發生的事。

How much of the ending from the manga did you have in mind when you first
began writing “Attack on Titan”? And how much did it change along the way?

當您剛開始寫《進擊的巨人》時，您對漫畫結局有多少預想？

在創作過程中，它又發生了多少變化？

That was pretty much there from the beginning, the story that starts with the
victim who then goes through this story and becomes the aggressor. That is
something I had in mind right from the get-go. Along the way, certain aspects
of the story didn’t go as expected, and I adapted and fleshed out certain
aspects. But I would say the ending of the story didn’t change much.

從一開始就差不多有了，故事始於一個受害者

然後經歷了這個故事，變成了侵略者

這是我一開始就有的想法

在創作的過程中，某些故事的部分並沒有如預期那樣發展

我進行了調整並充實了某些部分

但我會說，故事的結局並沒有太大的變化

There’s a much-talked-about scene where Armin, who is struggling with Eren’s
 turn into a mass murderer, seems to thank him for his actions. Can you talk
about the meaning behind that conversation?

有一個被廣泛討論的場景，阿爾敏在艾倫變成大規模殺人犯後似乎還感謝了他的行為

您能談談那次對話背後的意義嗎？

My thinking there wasn’t really that Armin was trying to push Eren away for
the sake of justice or whatnot. It was more that he wanted to, in a sense,
take joint responsibility. He wanted to become an accomplice. In order to
become an accomplice, Armin had to make sure that he used very strong wording
so that he could take those sins upon himself. And so that was the intent
behind it.

我當時的想法並不是認為阿爾敏試圖為了正義之類的理由而推開艾倫

更多的是，他想要某種意義上共同承擔責任。他想成為共犯

為了成為共犯，阿爾敏必須確保自己使用了非常強烈的措辭

以便能夠自己承擔那些罪孽。這就是背後的意圖。

You have a scene where Eren apologizes to a kid for the carnage he’s going to
 commit and says he was disappointed in the world he saw beyond the walls.
What does that say about his motivation?

你有一個場景，艾倫向一個孩子道歉

為他即將犯下的大屠殺，並說他對他在牆外看到的世界感到失望

這透露他的動機是什麼？

I think that refers to the fact that Eren was dreaming of going to this world
outside of the walls where there was nobody and there was nothing. There was
an excitement about this world that was just empty, a clean slate. I don’t
really know whether that’s a good or a bad thing, and I don’t really know
why that was the ideal that I set up for Eren as a part of this story. But
what I can say is that, when he does get across the wall at that point, he
says he sees that the world is really not that different from what’s within
the walls in the world that he already knows. I believe that’s probably the
disappointment that I’m referring to in that specific scene.

艾倫夢想著去牆外的世界，在那裡沒有人，一切都是空的

對於這樣一個空無一物、像是乾淨的畫布的世界，他感到興奮

我不確定這是好事還是壞事

我也不清楚為什麼我會為艾倫設定這樣一個理想作為故事的一部分

但我可以說的是，當他最終越過那堵牆時

他說他看到的世界和他已經知道的牆內的世界實際上並沒有太大不同

我相信這可能是我在那個特定場景中所指的失望。

Eren says in the final episode of the anime that he had no choice but to
follow the future that he saw, that he was powerless against the powers of the
 Founding Titan. Armin even asks if he’s really free. Was he telling the
truth or do you see this as him telling an excuse?

在動畫的最後一集中，艾倫說他別無選擇，只能遵循他所看到的未來

他無法抵抗始祖巨人的力量，阿爾敏甚至問他是否真的自由

他是在說真話，還是你認為這是他在找藉口？

So the truth is the situation with Eren actually overlaps in a certain sense
with my own story with this manga. When I first started this series, I was
worried that it would probably be canceled. It was a work that no one knew
about. But I had already started the story with the ending in mind. And the
story ended up being read and watched by an incredible number of people, and
it led to me being given a huge power that I didn’t quite feel comfortable
with.

所以事實上，艾倫的處境在某種意義上與我自己創作這部漫畫的故事有所重疊

當我剛開始這個系列時，我擔心它可能會被取消。成為一個沒有人知道的作品

但我已經是帶著結局開始這個故事的。而這個故事最終被無數人閱讀和觀看

這讓我被賦予了一種我不太舒服的巨大力量。

It would have been nice if I could have changed the ending. Writing manga is
supposed to be freeing. But if I was completely free, then I should have been
able to change the ending. I could have changed it and said I wanted to go in
a different direction. But the fact is that I was tied down to what I had
originally envisioned when I was young. And so, manga became a very
restrictive art form for me, similar to how the massive powers that Eren
acquired ended up restricting him.

如果我能改變結局就好了。創作漫畫應該是自由的

但如果我完全自由的話，那麼我應該能夠改變結局

我本可以改變它，說我想走一條不同的方向

但事實是，我被我年輕時最初構想的東西所束縛

因此，漫畫對我來說成為了一種非常有限制性的藝術形式

這與艾倫獲得的巨大力量最終限制了他相似。

You have been involved in the anime production for a little while, supervising
 the adaptation’s storyboards, and have been known for asking for changes to
the story in the adaptation. Did you personally ask for anything for the final
 episode?

您已經參與了動畫製作一段時間，監督改編的分鏡腳本，並且因要求改編故事而聞名

對於最終集，您個人有要求做出任何改變嗎？

Yes. Absolutely. I checked the script, but the main thing was the storyboards.
 There were different things I suggested. When it comes down to it, it’s
really the role of the production to make those decisions. But I wanted to at
least give my input so that they could take those into account when they were
making the final decisions.

是的，當然。我檢查了劇本，但主要是分鏡。我提出了不同的建議

歸根結底，這真的是製作團隊角色來做出這些決定

但我至少想提供我的意見，這樣他們在做最終決定時就能考慮到這些。

The manga ends with you showing the future of Paradis and sort of the cycle of
 war continuing. Is there no end to the conflict and the cycle you present in
the story?

漫畫的結尾展示了帕拉迪島的未來，以及戰爭循環繼續的樣子

你在故事中呈現的衝突和循環有沒有結束的可能？

I guess there could have been an ending where it was a happy ending and the
war ended and everything was fine and dandy. I guess that could have been
possible. At the same time, the end of fighting and the end of contention
itself kind of seems hokey. It kind of seems like it’s not even believable.
It’s just not plausible in the world we’re living in right now. And so,
sadly, I had to give up on that kind of happy ending.

我猜本可以有一個快樂的結局，戰爭結束了，一切都很好，我猜那是可能的

但同時，戰鬥的終結和爭端本身的終結似乎有點虛假。它看起來甚至不可信

在我們現在所生活的世界中，這根本不現實

因此，遺憾的是，我不得不放棄這種快樂的結局。

Source：https://reurl.cc/x6Apb1

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 101.10.60.68 (臺灣)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/C_Chat/M.1699353160.A.30A.html
※ 編輯: rayisgreat (101.10.60.68 臺灣), 11/07/2023 18:47:11
推 chewie: 推翻譯
推 Hyena1984: 推
推 c24253994: 還好我當初有相信創哥 嗚嗚嗚
推 iovoecu: 不得不放棄這種快樂的結局☺
推 CATALYST0001: 哇 這個訪談關鍵欸
推 benson60913: 資訊量好大 創哥說自己是也是創作的奴隸
推 jackz: 創哥也是不自由的
推 yuuirain: 推
推 ilovetakagis: 創哥確實和艾連一樣，知道故事結局卻不知細節，想自
→ ilovetakagis: 由卻被故事束縛
→ yuuirain: #相信創哥
推 a125g: 每個人都是某種東西的奴隸
推 roylee1214: 我被我年輕時最初構想的東西所束縛
推 matchkiwi: 獲得力量那段好猛
推 chi1125: 推
推 waitwind: 「我也不清楚為什麼我會為艾倫設定這樣一個理想」.....
→ benson60913: 原來你是艾連本人啊創
推 black58gigi: 所以是創哥提供分鏡跟劇本，mappa採用，伯樂伯樂
→ waitwind: 好喔，原來不知道的就是作者你自己阿= =....
推 klagalas: 推 創哥
推 starsheep013: 創作的奴隸
→ morichi: 作者:窩不知道
推 ytall: 創哥也是自由的奴隸...
推 NDSL: 創哥: 窩不知道
推 andy0481: 真的可以玩那個梗了 創哥懂個屁巨人
推 no321: 創哥 你坐啊
推 fuhu66: 窩不知道
推 ayubabbit: 作者:我是漫畫的奴隸(X  沒想到艾倫的心境有這含意
推 ha99: 推
推 cornsoup: 原來創哥不懂巨人
推 yniori: 原來艾連是創哥啊！創作的奴隸
→ CjackC: 月刊漫畫的缺點 寫到後面不能改前面的 導致結局時背負很
→ CjackC: 多壓力
推 shinobunodok: 作者雖然也不知道 但是有一群人知道
推 czy17: 感謝翻譯QQ
推 aegis43210: 他後來想做一個快樂的結局，但現實不允許，果然是自由
→ aegis43210: 的奴隸
推 asd8603: 確實  這世界上沒有人是真正自由的  qq
→ jackz: 那編輯會抱著創哥說我們一起承擔嗎
→ cornsoup: 這跟Jojo滾石一樣的道理
推 loverxa: 窩不知道艾倫為什麼會說窩不知道
推 Pegasus99: 至少有誠實說窩不知道
推 snowcloud: 我被我年輕時最初構想的東西所束縛
→ wacoal: 上班工作就是一種奴隸
→ ayubabbit: 創哥真的有說我不清楚 ww
推 OceanAdin: 樓下知道了嗎？你也是自由的？
→ AhirunoSora: 編輯：一起承擔，版稅分我一半
→ brian040818: 簡單來說就是在畫自己
推 killerj466v2: 如何精確地描述巨人 A:我不知道 這作者說的
推 musmusker: 不用窗簾了 作者本人都窩不知道
→ ash9911911: 創哥:我也是自由的奴隸
推 twic: 創哥 你畫啊
推 leon19790602: 感謝翻譯
推 theeHee: 創哥：我也不知道 但就是想這麼創作
推 milk830122: 大家都是資本的奴隸 非資本國家也是換個方式當奴隸
推 morichi: 是時候還我們這些窩不知道黨公道了吧
推 ayubabbit: 創哥腦內有無限的可能  但是沒有一個HE的結局
推 mahimahi: 只有持續前進的人才會知道
→ mahimahi: 原來是對自己說的嗎
→ bnn: 漫畫創哥:窩不知道 → 動畫創哥:我是自由的奴隸
推 n20001006: 原來真的是艾連叫創哥畫的…
→ morichi: 被罵刷爛梗這麼久 結果這才是作者想法
推 gxu66: 結果創哥也不知道 不要再逼了
推 Jin63916: 哇塞創哥這段話有點神
推 s50189: 我以為我是自由的...到最後卻不得不選擇這條路...
→ ayubabbit: 都是世界一堆戰爭讓創哥沒辦法創一個HE
推 loverxa: 巨粉：窩不知道就是一群X能兒在玩梗  作者：你罵啊
推 octopus4406: 我要戰鬥 我要戰鬥 我要畫圖 我要畫圖
推 fjuke: 所以創哥=艾連 都是自由的奴隸QQ
推 TsworldG: 這思想，不是正常人等級的
推 bestteam: 原來命定論的原因 是作者被這結局綁架了啊
推 Satanaell: 笑死 作者自己也不知道www
→ as3366700: 創作的奴隸 :ooo
推 goseienn: 創哥自己也不知道是三小= =
推 storyo11413: 就是怕結局不被接受 所以按照符合社會的結局畫!?
推 d125383957: 往好處想，至少作者財富自由了
推 mkopin: 很有想法的創作家
推 kyan86115: 創哥也是自由的奴隸嗎
推 devilkool: 這我知道，把點子寫在筆記本上但沒記下脈絡的話，過段
→ devilkool: 時間可能就忘記這點子是什麼了，我想創哥不知道的原因
→ devilkool: 應該只是忘了……
推 leo82528: 原來是自傳（
推 Xeraphlolz: 推
推 cmonBruh: 一開始畫已經想好結局了，畫到一半心態轉變想改結果被以
→ cmonBruh: 前的自己綁架
推 dennisdecade: 我有創作自由 編輯：不 你沒有
推 hutao: 作者本人最懂進巨的感覺了，原來如此
推 ayubabbit: 創哥現在可以解脫去畫搞笑漫畫了
推 Ayanami5566: 所以創哥也是進擊的巨人  被影響了  可憐
推 aquacake: 創作的奴隸
推 louis0724: 推 創哥連訪談都很酷
→ bnn: 以前的自己是暗喻始祖嗎...
推 rutp6j35566: 創哥:窩不知道QQ
→ louis0724: 連創作者都是不自由的
推 ccs95209: 創哥：創作是自由的…自由的…
推 q0000hcc: 抱著編輯說我先去三溫暖等你
推 murderer2013: 神
→ storyo11413: 不過作者脫離出版社畫自己想畫的的確不一定受歡迎
推 bestteam: 動畫版原來是作者心聲  嘗試過無數次想改變但結局沒變
推 WindowsSucks: 創哥原來也是年輕的自己的奴隸…
→ WindowsSucks: 年輕的創哥：這是你開啟的故事啊，給我照著畫完
推 ig49999: 創哥  我的超人
推 SCARHSCARL: 年輕的創哥不斷在畫結局時候的中年創哥耳邊呢喃低語：
推 kigiron: 創哥這個解釋也蠻屌的 XD
推 killerj466v2: 編輯：所以你對巨人最後是這樣的結局有什麼看法
→ killerj466v2: 創哥：我不知道
→ killerj466v2: （揍
→ winda6627: 反正信徒聽不進去。
推 bestteam: 這樣看喊相信創哥的巨粉 就是葉卡派
推 vsepr55: 尤彌爾，最自由的樂子人
推 FeMoman: 創哥我們一起承擔QAQ
推 KimomiKai: 所以為啥我腦袋自動補音還帶有漫畫失望無助的悲憤
→ KimomiKai: 感在看這段文字…
推 dustlike: 原來是自傳
推 tttt11104: 創哥的回答是不知道「為何會想給艾連這樣的設定」而動
→ tttt11104: 機不就在上一句回答了嗎？帶風向真簡單
推 h75311418: 所以也要感謝創哥跟mappa
推 ymsc30102: A臉:創 筆拿起來 這是你自己開啟的故事
→ KimomiKai: 所以那個對牆外世界的失望，真的是電波對了才感受
→ KimomiKai: 得到的絕望欸
推 RbJ: 2009年的創哥束縛了2021年的創哥，創作家常有的現象呢
推 magic404011: 一開始就想好結局了，所以即使連載過程想改也不被自
→ magic404011: 己允許
推 w77899: 年輕的作者:給我畫完阿 這是你開啟的故事吧
推 dearjohn: 自由的奴隸
→ h75311418: 月刊的時間還多一點如果是週刊更快要想出來也是不容易
推 yylin3266: 靠背原來他真的不知道阿
推 Tenebris: 好苦澀