Fw: 「召會」被列入ECNR『新宗教與非正統教派』（一）

[alchem (Antipas)]

※ [本文轉錄自 Brethren 看板 #1IRhRbxJ ]

作者: alchemi (Taiwanese) 看板: Brethren
標題: Fw: 「召會」被列入ECNR『新宗教與非正統教派』（一）
時間: Tue Oct 29 03:11:32 2013

※ [本文轉錄自 Monotheism 看板 #1IR1fyFM ]

※ [本文轉錄自 JesusLove 看板 #1IQOF5dw ]


台灣眾教會現在如此包容召會，一起出現在基督教論壇報攻擊東方閃電，但是卻未曾聽見

一直批判基督教是「妓女」（此一說法大量出現於召會各種出版品，包括李常受生命讀經

、晨興聖言、結晶讀經、錄影訓練等等）、是「公會」（去召會聚一次會，就會聽到召會

從上到下都這樣罵主內肢體，難不成召會以「私會」自居？），至今也未曾改變態度依舊

繼續罵主內肢體的這一群人，公開說一聲對不起，改口尊重其他教會，真正是驕傲自大、

欺人太甚。我反問一個問題，那些不知道召會與李常受的各種異端說法與實行的正統基督

教界朋友們，一旦知道一切的真相，還願意不願意與召會站在一起？


※ 引述《Tiunn (guesswho)》之銘言：
: ※ [本文轉錄自 Christianity 看板 #1IQIggZ4 ]
: 作者: Tiunn (guesswho) 看板: Christianity
: 標題: 「地方召會」被列入ECNR『新宗教與非正統教派』
: 時間: Thu Oct 24 22:11:47 2013
: 「地方召會」被列入ECNR『新宗教與非正統教派』百科全書之理由
: 福音派基督徒之所以將「地方召會」列入ECNR『新宗教與非正統教派』百科全書，其理由
: 認為李氏下列幾點之教訓與正統基督徒信仰出現矛盾之處。特別是在教義上「神性的本質
: 」、「人性的本質」兩大部份。筆者補譯幾個重點供弟兄姊妹參考，好讓大家有重新思考
: 的空間。
: On the Nature of God
: 神的本質
: "The Son is called the Father; so the Son must be the Father. We must realize
: this fact. There are some who say that He is called the Father, but He is not
: really the Father. But how could He be called the Father and yet not be the
: Father?... In the place where no man can approach Him (I Tim. 6:16), God is
: the Father. When He comes forth to manifest Himself, He is the Son. So, a Son
: is given, yet His name is called 'The everlasting Father.' This very Son who
: has been given to us is the very Father."
:  "子被稱為父，那麼子必然是父......"
: 出處：包羅萬有基督之靈。第四、五頁
: Witness Lee, The All-Inclusive Spirit of Christ
:  (Los Angeles: The Stream Publishers, 1969), pp. 4-5
:  "...the entire Godhead, the Triune God, became flesh."
:  .....整個神格，是三一神，成為肉身.........
: 出處：神的新約經綸。第230頁
: Witness Lee, God's New Testament Economy
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1986), p. 230
:  "The traditional explanation of the Trinity is grossly inadequate and
: borders on tritheism. When the Spirit of God is joined with us, God is not
: left behind, nor does Christ remain on the throne. This is the impression
: Christianity gives. They think of the Father as one Person, sending the Son,
: another Person, to accomplish redemption, after which the Son sends the
: Spirit, yet another Person. The Spirit, in traditional thinking, comes into
: the believers, while the Father and Son are left on the throne. When
: believers pray, they are taught to bow before the Father and pray in the name
: of the Son. To split the Godhead into these separate Persons is not the
: revelation of the Bible...."
:  ..............把神格分為三個位格不是聖經的啟示......
: 出處：生命讀經。第164頁
: Witness Lee, Life Messages
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1979), p. 164
:  "THE SON IS THE FATHER, AND THE SON IS ALSO THE SPIRIT.... and the Lord
: Jesus who is the Son is also the Eternal Father. Our Lord is the Son, and He
: is also the Father. Hallelujah!"
:  ..."子是那父，子也是那靈"........我們的主是那子，也是那父.......
: 出處：關於三一神。第18-19頁
: Witness Lee, Concerning the Triune God
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1973), pp. 18-19
:  "Therefore, it is clear: The Lord Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the
: Spirit, and He is the very God. He is also the Lord. He is the Father, the
: Son, the Spirit, the Mighty God, and the Lord."
:  ........主耶穌是父，是子，是那靈........
: 出處：關於三一神的屬靈啟示。
: Witness Lee, The Clear Scriptural Revelation
:  Concerning the Triune God
:  www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/booklets/triune.html
:  "The Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not three separate persons or three
: Gods; they are one God, one reality, one person."
:  ....父，子，靈不是三個身位或三位神，....他們是一個身位......
: 出處：三一神活在人裡。第48頁
: Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1970), p. 48
:  On the Nature of Humanity
: 人性的本質
: "Christ is of two natures, the human and the divine, and we are the same: we
: are of the human nature, but covered with the divine. He is the God-man, and
: we are the God-men. He is the ark made of wood covered with gold, and we are
: the boards made of wood covered with gold. In number we are different, but in
: nature we are exactly the same."
:  ....基督有人性和神性.....在本質上我們也是一樣.......
: 出處：包羅萬有基督。第103頁
: Witness Lee, The All-Inclusive Christ
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 5th ed. 1989), p. 103
:  "God can say to His believers, 'I am divine and human,' and His believers
: can reply, 'Praise You, Lord. You are divine and human, and we are human and
: divine.'"
: 神可對信徒說"我是神也是人".....信徒可回答 "我們是人也是神".....
: 出處：三一神活在人裡。第51-52頁
: Witness Lee, The Triune God to Be Life to the Tripartite Man
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1990), pp. 51-52
:  "My burden is to show you clearly that God's economy and plan is to make
: Himself man and to make us, His created beings, 'God,' so that He is
: 'man-ized' and we are 'God-ized.' In the end, He and we, we and He, all
: become God-men.'
:  ".....神的經綸和計劃是把祂自己做成人，把我們做成祂造的"神"......
: 出處：神聖分賜的更深研究。第54頁
: Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1990), p. 54
:  "We the believers are begotten of God. What is begotten of man is man, and
: what is begotten of God must be God. We are born of God; hence, in this
: sense, we are God."
:  ........我們 從神生，因此，在此理解，我們是神.
: 出處：Ibid., p. 53
:  Ibid., p. 53
:  "Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of
: Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the 'four-in-one' God.' These
: four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body. The Three of the
: Divine Trinity cannot be confused or separated, and the four-in-one also
: cannot be separated or confused."
:  ........父、子、靈 都在基督的身體，我們可以說三一神現是四一神，父、子、靈和身
: 體。
:  出處：Ibid., pp. 203-204
:  Ibid., pp. 203-204
:  On the Legitimacy of Evangelical Churches and Denominations
: 基督教福音教會和各宗派的正統性
: We decry as inconsistent and unjustifiable the attempts by Living Stream and
: the "local churches" to gain membership in associations of evangelical
: churches and ministries while continuing to promote Witness Lee's denigrating
: characterizations of such churches and ministries as follows:
: 「地方召會」及「水流職事站」在取得基督教福音教會所屬的協會會員資格，卻同時繼續
: 推展李氏教導貶低這些基督教福音教會和事奉，我們認為此種做法是矛盾和不公義的。
: "The Lord is not building His church in Christendom, which is composed of the
: apostate Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant denominations. This
: prophecy is being fulfilled through the Lord's recovery, in which the
: building of the genuine church is being accomplished."
:  .....主不是在基督教國建立召會，基督教國是由墮落羅馬天主教，和改革各宗派 .....
: 出處：新約恢復本99頁
: Witness Lee in The New Testament Recovery Version,
:  note 184 (Matthew 16:18)
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 99
:  http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=639
:  "The apostate church has deviated from the Lord's word and become heretical.
: The reformed church, though recovered to the Lord's word to some extent, has
: denied the Lord's name by denominating herself, taking many other names, such
: as Lutherans, Wesleyan, Anglican, Presbyterian, Baptist, etc. ... To deviate
: from the Lord's word is apostasy, and to denominate the church by taking any
: name other than the Lord's is spiritual fornication."
:  ......使用宗派否認主的名如信義會、衛思理會、長老會、浸信會.......
: 出處：新約恢復本1256頁
: Witness Lee in The New Testament Recovery Version,
:  note 83 (Revelation 3:8)
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 1256
:  http://online.recoveryversion.org/FootNotes.asp?FNtsID=8759
:  "I am afraid that a number of us are still under the negative influence of
: Christendom. We all have to realize that today the Lord is going on and on to
: fully recover us and bring us fully out of Christendom."
:  ".....今天主要完成恢復我們帶我們完全離開基督教國 ........
: 出處： 教會歷史與地方召會。132頁
: Witness Lee, The History of the Church and the Local Churches
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1991), p. 132
:  "In every denomination, including the Roman Catholic Church, there are real,
: saved Christians. They are God's people belonging to the Lord. But the
: organization of the denominations in which they are is not of God. The
: denominational organizations have been utilized by Satan to set up his
: satanic system to destroy God's economy of the proper church life."
:  ..........基督教宗派組織是被撒旦利用建立撒旦系統破壞神的經綸........
: 出處：創世紀生命讀經464頁
: Witness Lee, "Message Thirty-Four" in The Life-Study of Genesis
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1987), Vol. 1, p. 464
:  "We do not care for Christianity, we do not care for Christendom, we do not
: care for the Roman Catholic church, and we do not care for all the
: denominations, because in the Bible it says that the great Babylon is fallen.
: This is a declaration. Christianity is fallen, Christendom is fallen,
: Catholicism is fallen, and all the denominations are fallen. Hallelujah!"
:  ...........這是個宣告基督教墮落...所有基督教宗派是墮落 .....
: 出處： 地方召會的七靈97頁
: Witness Lee, The Seven Spirits for the Local Churches
:  (Anaheim: Living Stream Ministry, 1989), p. 97
:  "To know God is not adequate. To know Christ is also not adequate. Even to
: know the church is not adequate. We must go on to know the churches which are
: local. If we are up-to-date in following the Lord, we will realize that today
: is the day of the local churches."
:  .......我們將會了解現今是地方召會的日子.
: 出處：Ibid., p. 23
:  Ibid., p. 23
:  We respectfully call on the leadership of Living Stream Ministry and the
: "local churches" to disavow and cease to publish these and similar
: declarations.
: 我們尊敬的呼籲「地方召會」及「水流職事站」領導，收回和停止出版這些和類似的教導
: 。
: http://blog.haleluya.com.tw/wataru/archives/6852.html



→ drea:
→ drea:
→ drea:
→ drea:


以下若有任何一字謊言，願主刪除我生命冊上的名，永世時下火湖。李常受位在聖靈之後
，居第四位，1986年於台北市召會也有一模一樣的說法，連講員都是與美國德州場同一人
：韓德璞( Paul Hon )，台北市召會場我本人在現場，同年台北市召會呼求李常受特會，
Howard Higashi和余潔麟主持，我本人也在現場，我沒有呼求李常受的名，此場聚會一般
認定是中國大陸「呼喊派－呼求常受主，呼求常受神」的起點，雖然召會聲稱李常受曾去
信中國大陸阻止，但召會從未對美國德州場與台北市召會兩場做任何解釋，至少兩場異端
聚會都在台北市召會第三聚會所二樓大會場舉行，兩場都滿場，各約數百人、也許接近千
人的特會。余潔麟來到香港時，由香港教會長老溫繼有向余潔麟面詢，如此呼求李常受的
名是何用意？余潔麟承認曾有此事。drea，你那時後應該是在吸奶，甚至還沒有投胎。



→ drea:
→ drea:


drea，你現在怎麼噤聲龜縮了？敢快拿出良心勇敢斥責並棄絕召會聚會所李常受異端，否
則你就是愛異端不愛真 神。本事件始末請參考「香港教會全體長老同工就當今工作局面
的一些聲明」超連結如下：

http://1974748.blogspot.tw/2010/08/blog-post_22.html



→ drea:
→ drea:


drea，你算是有一點勇氣，Good，你應該是個年輕人，未曾親身經歷過召會那些荒唐的年
代。但是前述都是已經發生過的事實，建議你拿出良心與勇氣，親自向那幾位所謂的同工
求證，然後以正直的靈，大聲斥責這一些妄人妄言妄行妄事，並且斥責並棄絕至今沒有對
這些已經發生過的事實做出任何解釋與悔改的錯謬異端系統。



推 springxx:沒想到因為倪李的特立獨行害了不少人
→ springxx:召會 我最早待的教會  召會不是異端
→ springxx:李常受弟兄也不是異端  只不過  怪就怪在李弟兄有大頭症
→ springxx:倪我就不好說 畢竟不太了解
→ springxx:他們就是太自傲
→ springxx:一些作法有異端的影子  才會一直跟異端扯上邊
→ springxx:本身不是壞人
→ fisherke:許多教會有同樣的問題，教導問題不大，但組織運作有問題
→ fisherke:牧者用威權式的領導來帶羊，不允許有其他聲音，算異端嗎?


正統基督信仰 vs. 召會聚會所：
三一  神，三位一體 vs. 四一神，四位一體
  神格裏父居首位 vs. 神格裏子居首位
父、子、聖靈區別而不分開 vs. 父就是子，子就是那靈
聖子道成肉身 vs. 聖父、聖子、聖靈一起道成肉身
基督是非受造 vs. 基督是受造物
獨一一位基督 vs. 團體的基督
  神的兒女 vs. 人成為神

朋友，你還能說召會不是異端嗎？



李常受錯誤的神論----------聖經未曾有過的「啟示」

「四一神，四位一體-------這是否暗示聖父、聖子、與聖靈之外，還有另外一位神？」
，「神格裏子居首位-------這暗示聖父不是宇宙一切的源頭，也明示神格裏聖父不是居
首位」，「子就是父，子就是那靈-------這是形態論，李常受另說『受造的基督』，如
此強烈暗示聖父、聖子、聖靈都是受造物，這是宇宙中最大的褻瀆」，「聖父、聖子、聖
靈一起道成肉身-------這暗示聖父與聖靈也都釘了十字架」，「聖子是創造者也是被造
之物-------受造的基督，這是最可惡的褻瀆，請注意，撒但是受造物，擊殺撒但的基督
，是創造者，絕非受造者，基督的人性是被生出的，不是被造的（西1：15，愛子是首生
的）」，「團體的基督-------請問基督徒所相信的是耶穌基督，還是團體的基督？」，
「人成為神-------請注意，信徒永遠是  神的兒女，永遠不能成為神，『人成為神』是
宇宙中極大的褻瀆，撒但就是要想與  神同等，才墮落與背叛的」，「生的神，熟的神
-------請注意，自有永有亙古不變的  神，是宇宙唯一絕對者與永不改變者，生熟之論
不符  神的屬性，亦非聖經的啟示」，「李常受的子化論-------請注意，聖經無一處講

過『子化』，主耶穌沒有經過『子化』，也根本不需要『子化』，聖子自有永有亙古不變
，何來子化之有」，「李常受的那靈論-------請注意，聖靈自有永有亙古不變，何需演
進之有」等等、、、


李常受錯誤的釋經----------按照私意的「解經」

「新約希伯來書的作者是保羅（參李常受恢復本聖經希伯來書之著者）」，「保羅十四封
書信（含希伯來書）」-------請問，聖經何處啟示出希伯來書的作者？「雅各書違反了
神新約的經綸（參李常受恢復本聖經雅各書， 1：1註4， 1：5註1， 1：11註1， 1：25
註2， 1：26註1， 2：10註1， 3：12註1， 3：17註1，  4：11註1）」-------請問，聖
經都是  神所默示的，  神的言語句句都是煉淨的，像這種又主觀又否定聖經的釋經態度
，絕對不是從  神來的。等等、、、


李常受的錯誤不勝枚舉，罄竹難書，以上稍列李常受謬誤數端，從最重大的神學，到較輕
微的解經，召會李常受信眾若是照單全收，便是自證「我只相信李弟兄」，建議卸下信基
大樓「主的恢復展覽館」內「聖經是我們獨一無二的標準」招牌，換成「我們只相信倪柝
聲與李常受」，以示誠實。


認識真理，永不嫌遲；知錯能改，為時不晚。




Alchemy 拒絕再回應任何問題浪費時間，召會李常受信眾「見笑轉生氣」的吠言，歡迎隨

時補上，不再編輯，保證不刪。你們在自己的問題裏打牆，恐怕主耶穌親自來解說，也無

法說服這種「我只相信李弟兄」的蛋頭（「我只相信李弟兄」，是大約二十年前起迄今，

Alchemy 發現召會大有問題後，每每於召會公開或私下的提問，除了招致「圍剿公幹」外

，所得到的一致回應）。網友若名為 Satan或 Lucifer者，不受此限，24小時全年無休隨

時候教，保証把你痛擊成 Natas或 Reficul. 榮耀歸 神，哈利路亞，阿們。

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※ 轉錄者: alchem (114.46.232.152), 04/07/2014 11:20:13
※ 編輯: alchem (114.46.247.190), 04/27/2014 22:01:09