Re: 駁斥伯拉糾主義的謬論

[df31 (DF-31)]

※ 引述《openeyes222 (睜大眼看)》之銘言：
: 你非常推崇的奧古斯丁表示:
: 早期教會的核心關注是信徒必須一生儆醒，堅持信仰到底。因此，信徒是否有把握自己必然得救，不是他們的關注。奧古斯丁多次表達類似的教導。他在《責備和恩典》(On Rebuke and Grace)的第四十章(13.40)指出﹕「沒有人肯定自己的預定和得救。」 “No One is Certain and Secure of His Own Predestination and
: Salvation.”他強調有些人，有信仰的開始，但不能持續到底。[10]奧古斯丁是要強調，我們一生都需要緊緊跟從神，要常常謙卑，都需要神的恩典。奧古斯丁在第四十二章指出，有些人有起步的信，但後來離棄神，也因此被神離棄。[11]奧古斯丁在《堅忍的禮物》(On the Gift of Perseverance)一書指出﹕「所以我們不能肯定有任何人在他在生的時候，已經得到神所賜堅忍到底這禮物。若果在他死以前跌倒，他當然沒有被保守到底。」
: 你回答不出來的，奧古斯丁回答了。

先教你基本的『學術觀念』。你鬧得笑話連我看得都不忍心了。。。。。

要引用文章，你要注意幾點：

1- 要提供出處  要不然，人家怎麼查證你是編出來的，替人家說話？還是憑空捏造的？還是修改了原始資料以符合你的理論？這是第一點。
2- 要包括一次文獻  最好是直接引用。否則，有腳註，尾註也行。因為，這樣可以比較作者和一次文獻的觀點是否一致？抑或是悖逆？
3- 你要提出自己的觀點 這樣人家才能知道你充分理解你引用的一次+二次文獻的內容。

這三點是最基本的『規範/道德』。隨便網絡抓個東西來，那是很無知的做法。

當然，以後還要看引用的一次文獻和二次文獻的學術含量什麼的細節，這你就用不到了。

好了言歸正傳，再把刀子亮出來。。。。嘿嘿嘿。。。

不是喜歡玩文獻嗎？你丟一篇，不回敬一篇不好意思餒！以下是我提供的資料：作者大量的引用奧古斯丁的『原話』——你那篇是什麼東西啊？！——來證明自己的觀點。並且，同時論到『稱義』和『善工』。

『看懂』了，再來討論。『看不懂』？照上篇——在被窩裡面。。。。——辦理即可。：）


http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/a98.htm

SAINT AUGUSTINE on Justification-Salvation

Christ's saints imitate Him in order to pursue JUSTICE [Justification].
Whence also the same Apostle says: "Be imitators of me, even as I am of
Christ" [1 Cor 11:1]. But besides this imitation, His GRACE also works WITHIN
us our illumination and JUSTIFICATION, by that work of which His same
preacher says: "Neither is he that plants anything, nor he that waters, but
He that gives the increase, God" [1 Cor 3:7].

For by this GRACE baptized INFANTS too are ingrafted into His body, infants
who certainly are not yet able to imitate anyone. Christ, in whom all are
made alive, besides offering Himself as an example of RIGHTEOUSNESS for those
who would imitate Him, gives also the most hidden GRACE of His Spirit to
believers, GRACE which He secretly INFUSES EVEN INTO INFANTS. (Forgiveness of
Sins 1:9:10)

You are the only authorities who suppose that JUSTIFICATION is conferred by
the remission alone of sins. Certainly God JUSTIFIES the impious man not only
by remitting the evil deeds which that man does, but ALSO by granting LOVE,
so that the man may turn away from evil and may DO GOOD THROUGH the Holy
Spirit. (Against Julian 2:165)

He that is by nature the only Son of God, in His mercy to us, was made Son of
Man, so that we, by nature sons of man, might through Him BY GRACE BECOME
SONS of God...For just as we, by the sinning of one man, have fallen into
this so deplorable an evil, so too through JUSTIFICATION wrought by one Man,
the same who is God, we shall come to that good so sublime. (City of God
21:15)

If anyone says that faith MERITS the grace of doing GOOD WORKS, we cannot
deny it; rather we admit it most readily. THIS is the FAITH we wish they
might have, the FAITH by which they might obtain that LOVE which ALONE truly
DOES GOOD WORKS, those brothers of ours who glory so much in their works!
LOVE, however, is so much the gift of God that it is called God [1 John
4:8].....

Let no one say to himself: "If [justification] is from faith, how is it
freely given [Rom 5:1; 3:24] : If faith MERITS it, why is it not rather paid
than given?" Let the faithful man not say such a thing; for, if he says: "I
have faith, therefore I merit justification," he will be answered: "What have
you that you did not receive" [1 Cor 4:7]? If therefore, faith entreats and
receives JUSTIFICATION, according as God has apportioned to each in the
measure of his faith [Rom 12:3], nothing of human merit PRECEDES the grace of
God, but grace itself MERITS INCREASE, and the increase MERITS PERFECTION,
with the will ACCOMPANYING but not leading, following ALONG but not going in
advance. (Letters 186:3:7,10)

What MERIT, then, does a man have BEFORE grace, by which he might RECEIVE
grace, when our EVERY good merit is produced in us ONLY by grace, and, when
God, crowning our merits, crowns nothing else but His own GIFTS to us?
(Letters 194:5:19)

"He was handed over for our offenses, and He rose again for our
JUSTIFICATION" [Rom 4:25]. What does this mean, "for our JUSTIFICATION" ? So
that He might justify us; so that He might MAKE US JUST. You will be a work
of God, not only because you are a man, but also because YOU ARE JUST....He
who made you without your consent does not JUSTIFY you without your consent.
He made you without your knowledge, but He does not JUSTIFY you without your
WILLING it. (Sermons 169:13)

Now as to LOVE, which the Apostle says is greater than the other two, that
is, than faith and hope [1 Cor 13:13], so much the better is he in whom it is
found. For when it is asked whether someone is a good man, it is not asked
what he BELIEVES or what he hopes for, but what he LOVES. For if someone
loves rightly, without a doubt he believes and hopes rightly. But someone who
does not love believes IN VAIN even if what he believes is TRUE; and he hopes
IN VAIN, even if what he hopes for is rightly taught as pertaining to true
happiness unless he believes and hopes for this also, that through prayer it
may be given him to love.....This however, is the FAITH of Christ which the
Apostle commanded, which WORKS THROUGH LOVE [Gal 5:6]; and for whatever it
does not yet have in love, it asks and receives, seeks and finds, knocks so
that it will be opened to it [Matt 7:7]. Faith asks and OBTAINS what the law
COMMANDS. For without the Gift of God, that is, without the Holy Spirit,
through whom LOVE is poured out into our hearts [Rom 5:5], the law could
command but could not help. Moreoever, the law could make a man a
transgressor, who could not excuse himself on grounds of ignorance. Where
there is NO love of God, carnal desire does reign. (Enchiridion of Faith,
Hope, and Love 31:117)

What is grace? Something given -gratis-. What is given -gratis-? That which
is bestowed rather than paid as owed. If it is owed, it is wages paid, not a
gift graciously given. If it was truly owed, you have been good; but if, as
is the case, you have been evil, but YOU DID BELIEVE IN HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE
IMPIOUS [i.e. Rom 4:5] -- and what is MEANT BY "He justifies the impious?"
That HE MAKES THE IMPIOUS PIOUS -- think what was rightly threatened you by
the law, and what you have obtained by grace! But since you have gotten that
grace of faith, you shall be just by faith; for the just man lives by faith
[Rom 1:17; Hab 2:4]. And by LIVING FAITH you shall DESERVE WELL of God; and
when you shall have deserved well of God by LIVING by faith, as REWARD you
shall receive immortality and ETERNAL LIFE. AND THAT IS GRACE. Because of
what MERIT, then, do you receive ETERNAL LIFE? BECAUSE OF GRACE. (Homilies on
the Gospel of John 3:9)

==========================================

柏拉圖在家門口掛著一個：不懂數學者免進
的牌子，是非常需要的。 ^____________________________________^

--
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※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Christianity/M.1506669137.A.96A.html
※ 編輯: df31 (49.219.128.242), 09/29/2017 15:14:06
推 amosvalen: 原來奧古斯丁用英文寫作啊?你這叫一手引用?
→ df31: @阿摩斯 歡迎你引用奧古斯丁的拉丁文文獻，然後告訴我們
→ df31: 他在講什麼！耶！大家準備歡迎『拉丁文大師』出場！鼓掌啊！
→ df31: 呵呵。。。。。。。無知的人講的無知的話！連老美都引用英文
→ df31: 翻譯，還拉丁文嘞！。。。火舌頭降在頭上嘍！
推 amosvalen: 你只能看英文也沒什麼錯，不要吹噓什麼一手文獻也就沒
→ amosvalen: 事了，就算是中文，你確定你可以理解漢朝以前的文獻來
→ amosvalen: 龍去脈嗎？更不要說什麼圖書文獻的傳抄跟保存了
推 amosvalen: 你都貼一個網址，老問題，這個網址的文獻使用那個抄本
→ amosvalen: ，現今是否存在？如存在保存於何處?
→ df31: 呵呵，歡迎你拿出一首文獻，把我打死。否則，拿不出就不要
→ df31: 廢話。。。。