作者: df31 (DF-31) 看板: Christianity
標題: [討論] 摩門教的『一神論』教義
時間: Mon Oct  1 18:50:42 2018

本文一如既往的謝絕三尺蒞臨指教
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 作者  df31 (DF-31)                                        看板  Christianity
 標題  Re: [心得] 三位三體父子聖靈
 時間  Sun Sep 30 16:53:13 2018
→ mediashow008: 三位三體就是教義 我們的天父差遣祂愛子來世上贖罪   10/01 01:28
→ mediashow008: 犧牲，並賜下聖靈引領我們與祂合一                  10/01
01:28

作者  mediashow008 (大衛)                                 看板  Christianity
 標題  Re: [心得] 三位三體父子聖靈
 時間  Mon Oct  1 00:52:09 2018

重點不是摩爾門經呀，摩爾門經提供的是一項證據，證據約瑟斯密看見耶穌與耶穌的父親
，間接證實了基督教三位一體教義是錯的，這樣大膽的信息衝擊每一個內心渴望真理的人
重新思考他接受的信仰的真實性。因為聖經從沒有提供一項資訊三位是「一體」沒有。

如果沒有「三位一體」的神格。為什麼你們的教會要你崇拜「這樣的神」？

以上是M長老的一些言論。根據M長老，摩門教應該是典型的『三神論』。

在jd大的啟迪下，區區不才在網絡上找到一篇文章。摘錄相關的段落：


Unity of the Godhead

Having stressed the distinctiveness of the members of the Godhead and
affirmed the fundamental and essential doctrine behind it, we can now note a
clear and consistent theme running through the Book of Mormon that indicates
important ways in which the Father and the Son are united for their common
purposes and virtually synonymous in their interchangeable roles and
functions. Indeed, their unity is the primary fact of their relationship;
their distinctiveness seems to exist only in their corporeal separateness.

This unity between the Father and the Son catches the eye of the reader even
before entering the Book of Mormon text. The title page of the Book of Mormon
describes one of the purposes of this scripture as "the convincing of the Jew
and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God." Following that,
Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris, the three latter-day
witnesses of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, conclude their marvelous
testimony with this conspicuous phrase: "And the honor be to the Father, and
to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen."

Many such declarations then appear throughout the Book of Mormon. In Nephi's
foundational sermon on the "doctrine of Christ," the sermon in which Nephi
recorded the distinct utterances of the Father and the Son regarding Christ's
baptism, he concluded with this declaration about the necessity of remaining
"steadfast in Christ":

"And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none
other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom
of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and
true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is
one God, without end. Amen." fn

When Amulek testified to Zeezrom about the nature and role of Christ—
including Christ's physical distinction from the Father—he concluded with
this bold assertion about the universality of the Resurrection: "[All] shall
be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the
Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according
to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil." fn

In his introductory message to the Nephites upon his appearance in the New
World, the Savior made an urgent appeal for unity among the members,
particularly regarding the doctrine of baptism. To emphasize this need he
noted the unity of the Godhood: "After this manner shall ye baptize in my
name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and
the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the
Father and I are one. . . . The Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." fn

For one final example we note Mormon's last words, in which he gave this
testimony of the Savior to any who will hear his voice:

"Know ye that ye must come to the knowledge of your fathers, and repent of
all your sins and iniquities, and believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son
of God, and that he was slain by the Jews, and by the power of the Father he
hath risen again, whereby he hath gained the victory over the grave; and also
in him is the sting of death swallowed up.

"And he bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead, whereby man must be
raised to stand before his judgment-seat.

"And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is
found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to
dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with
the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost,
which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." fn

The doctrine of Christ with roles as a Father as well as as a Son was the
source of some confusion and contention in Book of Mormon times. One of the
most skillful and cunning of adversaries in the Book of Mormon (until his
conversion) was Zeezrom. He used the complexity of this doctrine to try to
trap new missionary Amulek.

With a skillful line of reasoning indicative of his training in the law,
Zeezrom asked a series of questions leading to his ultimate question and
potentially troublesome snare: "Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?" fn

Amulek, fearless and forthright in his answer, responded with a boldness
worthy of his interrogator: "Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and
of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end,
the first and the last;

"And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take
upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are
they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else." fn

This relationship among members of the Godhead deserves some brief
consideration.

============================

這段話摘錄了大量摩門教方面承認父、子和聖靈是『一位神』的論述。

在此，我只有2個簡單的問題請教M長老：

1- 這些是否都是『摩門教的正式文字記錄』？
2- 基督教所謂『一體』是什麼意義？

摩門教在台有不少美籍傳教士，如果M大看不懂英文，可以找他們幫忙翻譯。:P

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 180.217.173.211
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Christianity/M.1538391045.A.4BC.html
→ sCHb68: 摩門教搞的我好亂喔。
因為他們不知道自己在講什麼！

推 mediashow008: 一位只是翻譯，三個神是一組神，地球的管理上是由這
→ mediashow008: 組神共同管理，天父和祂的兒子以及聖靈三位，他們在
→ mediashow008: 目的、情感、計畫上合一。
→ mediashow008: 我們的概念成為神組
→ mediashow008: 稱為
哦？！是這樣啊，那麼請教兩個簡單的問題：

1- 【One God】的中文翻譯是什麼？
2- 【神組】的英文翻譯是什麼？

最後，您還沒回答我前面的兩個問題。不會看不懂中文吧？
※ 編輯: df31 (1.200.201.155), 10/01/2018 21:42:52
推 mediashow008: 你不也沒有回答最初你問第一個問題後我給的回答嗎？
推 mediashow008: 耶穌說父比我低，你怎麼看呢
→ mediashow008: 更正：比我大
→ mediashow008: 約翰福音14:28
那麼，你的意思是父>子嘍？那麼請問，是怎麼個大法？性質，權能，榮耀，尊貴，地位？
※ 編輯: df31 (1.200.201.155), 10/01/2018 22:15:38
推 mediashow008: 不是我的意思吧？我幫你翻出聖經，你怎麼解釋呢？
→ mediashow008: 耶穌都這麼說了，你是不相信經文嗎？
→ mediashow008: 我自己的意思不算什麼，主的意思才是你真正該明白
→ mediashow008: 難道你對主說父比我大 有意見？
呵呵，幾個基本問題都搞不清楚，怎麼戰？建議，別玩了。
※ 編輯: df31 (1.200.201.155), 10/01/2018 23:30:21
推 mediashow008: 呵呵，遇到耶穌回答父比我大這句同意與否？停在這也
→ mediashow008: 不錯
還要繼續玩下去？：O
如果要繼續玩，講一聲。不然，就閉嘴嘍！
※ 編輯: df31 (1.200.201.155), 10/02/2018 10:34:43
→ tkucuh: 人看見了我，就是看見了父 約14:9
→ Kangin75: 這句經文為什麼出現？