[請益] 英語論壇中，對ever lived的回應

[scju (QQ)]

各位好，請教一下

在英語論壇中問了一個問題：
https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/259512-ever-lived-has-ever-lived

She's one of the greatest writers who ever lived.
It was one of the largest animals that has ever lived.

http://learnersdictionary.com/definition/live
------------
1. Do 'ever lived' and 'has/have ever lived' mean the same thing?
2. Are they interchangeable?

網友teechar回應：

1. Yes, they do.
2. They are in contexts such as the above.

網友Tdol回應：

With the first sentence, I would use "has ever lived" because she is still
alive, but don't think that the past tense is an error.

我問Tdol：
How do we know that she is still alive?
Is it possible that she is dead?

Tdol回應：
Without further context, "She's" suggests that she is alive. This is an issue
with trying to force meanings out of decontextualised standalone sentences.
The logical conclusion from yur sentence is that she's alive. If this were a
text about Jane Austen that used the present tense, things could be
different, but with a name and a context, the logical position is to assume
she's alive.
----------

想請問：
1.This is an issue
with trying to force meanings out of decontextualised standalone sentences.
這句話該怎麼理解呢？

a.「這是一個試圖『強迫意義脫離沒有脈絡的獨立句子』的問題」？
（句型是force XXX out of decontextualised standalone sentences）

b.「這是一個試圖『強加意義在已脫離脈絡的獨立句子』的問題」？
（句型是force meanings (which are) out of decontextualised standalone
sentences）

2.If this were a
text about Jane Austen that used the present tense, things could be
different, but with a name and a context, the logical position is to assume
she's alive.

這句話也不太懂，前半部是說，如果描述Jane Austen這種名作家，雖然她已死了，
但還是可以用she is...的意思嗎？

後半部，with a name and a context,
the logical position is to assume she's alive.
「如果有一個名字和一個語意脈絡，邏輯位置會是假設她還活著」（什麼意思？）

請教各位，謝謝。

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※ 編輯: scju (111.251.45.196), 02/22/2018 22:38:55
→ dunchee:   dunchee.blogspot.com/2016/09/tmp2.html
推 l10nel: 這是試圖對脫離脈絡的獨立句子強加意義所造成的問題/困難
推 l10nel: 雖然Austen一死，但關於她的句子，有的可以使用現在式is，
→ l10nel: 一死->已死
→ l10nel: 尤其那種超越生死的歷史評價如Austen IS the greatest...
→ wohtp: "force something out of"： 硬擠牙膏擠出來
→ wohtp: 所以直接翻譯成「從沒有脈絡的獨立句子中擠出涵義」
推 EVASUKA: It was one of the largest animals that has ever lived
→ EVASUKA: 這句沒有討論嗎? 時態上應該有待討論的地方
網友teechar說
這裡的'ever lived' and 'has/have ever lived'可以互換....。
所以應該沒有時態的問題吧？（我目前是這樣認為啦）
→ kaifrankwind: logical 有合邏輯 合理的意思 會稍微衍生
感謝各位回應！

※ 編輯: scju (111.251.45.196), 02/23/2018 21:59:30
推 EVASUKA: 我是好奇was和has lived搭配背後的邏輯
推 eschew: has lived表示包括所從古至今有的動物
→ eschew: was表示這種動物已經絕種
推 EVASUKA: 如果是從古至今所有動物，應該用have lived?
→ sunny1991225: 樓上說的那個是gmat的經典考法之一...
→ sunny1991225: 主要是看你到底在修飾是one還是animals
→ sunny1991225: 這種單數名詞再用介系詞接複數的用法很容易讓人搞
→ sunny1991225: 錯子句的修飾對象
推 EVASUKA: 所以我才說這句有討論空間，前後時態組合和單複數組合
→ EVASUKA: 上有不同意思，目前原波那句我看起來是不夠清楚的...