看板 LoL 關於我們 聯絡資訊
Scarra & Dyrus talk Worlds drafting on Misfits and TSM: "Parth wasn’t even supposed to be the coach." https://goo.gl/uRHrHv ─────────────────────────────────────── Blitz 的專文 Scarra 和 Dyrus 參加 TwitchCo 時,回答台下的提問 主要關於世界賽歐美戰隊 MSF 和 TSM 在賽場上的 B/P (即Drafting) [節錄略翻] Scarra: I’m probably the most qualified to [answer] this of the people here. I was one of the main drafters on DIG and I helped do drafting and then got helped on CLG as a coach. I also ended up doing a lot of the work for the drafting on Delta Fox. 我大概是現場最能回答這個問題的人了 過去我是 DIG 主要的 BP 人員,並且擔任過 CLG 教練進行類似的工作 最近一次則是幫助 Delta Fox 進行 BP 的工作 Pretty much, you don’t know. No one knows. On each team it could be the coach does everything: the coach and the analyst make the thing and all the players are like okay, we’ll just play this. On other teams, it’s like the players get almost full choice. They wanna play this. It happens. 很多東西,人們並不知道。也沒有人知道。 有些隊伍,教練和分析師掌管一切,他們說了算;而選手也願意配合並執行。 有些隊伍,則是選手有全權的選擇權。選手要玩這隻! OK! 就決定是你了。 I actually talked to one of the Misfits managers and he told me that the way Misfits does it is essentially Hussain, their head coach, as well as their head analyst come together and make the draft. The players just say yes. That ’s it. They don’t have any disagreements on it. Whatever the coach does, they play. 我曾經和MSF的經理聊過,他跟我聊到 MSF 的決策方針 主要來自於他們的總教練 (Head Coach) Hussain ,以及他們的首席分析師 他們兩個全權負責 BP ,而選手就是"Say yes"去執行 中間沒有任何的反對或者質疑 無論教練安排什麼,選手負責比賽。 Every single team is different and honestly, on draft you work around a lot of limitations. Maybe your player just sucks at this meta champ and he can play the counter really well, so you just aim for that. Maybe you give up Sej a lot and you play a really bad champion into it because you’re willing to take a Tristana for that matchup, because that’s the best result you had in scrims. 老實說,每支隊伍都不一樣;在 BP 面,都有各自不同的侷限存在 也許你的選手對於 Meta 角的掌握爛透了,但他能熟練相對應的康特角 那你就能依此來做戰術的目標 也許你放掉史瓦妮,又選了一個爛透的角色,被史瓦妮嚕在地上磨得亮晶晶 背後的原因,只是單單想要拿崔斯塔娜來走下路 這樣選的理由? 因為這是你的隊伍團練時,能打出最好結果的陣容了 So yes, constantly teams get outdrafted but the way I see it is, you can always get a better draft. But as soon as the draft is locked into the game, it doesn’t matter, draft is irrelevant. You can always win with a draft, assuming you don’t get hard outdrafted, which rarely happens. So I think a lot of people focus on the wrong things when they look at the competitive draft. The draft happens and yes, one team may have gotten the better draft, but usually one team loses because their execution sucks 所以,回答大家的疑問,是的,隊伍的選角的確有失誤、也有改善的空間 但是,一旦 BP 完成、進入遊戲;BP 的一切都不再重要了 只要並非 BP 有嚴重失誤,一切都還是有機會獲勝的 總結來說,我認為很多人在看比賽時,把焦點放錯地方了 BP 選出來了,是的,隊伍也許能有更好的 BP 決策 但實際上,隊伍會輸掉 大部分都是源自於他們在比賽中的表現/執行爛透了 Dyrus: I think it depends on player mindset, because if you respect the coach, you’re going to agree easier, you’re going to agree on what champions are good for the team. But if you don’t respect the coach, and this is a problem with the League scene in my opinion, there’s not a lot of very… a lot of people gave Parth flack on TSM, but the thing is, he wasn’t even supposed to be the coach. He only stepped up because there’s no one better. There’s not a lot of people out there. 關於 BP ,我認為與人的心態有關 假使你對教練保有敬意,那你對他的決定、選角也會更容易接受 反之,如果你隊教練欠缺敬意...... 就我個人意見而言,這也是現今 LOL 存在的問題 例如: TSM 的 Parth 遭到許多觀眾撻伐 但是事實上,Parth 壓根不是來當教練的 他只是在 TSM 沒有其他人可以擔任這個職位時,挺身而出來負責這個工作 So when it comes to coaches, the players need to also respect the coach and that’s where infrastructure comes in, because when the player doesn’t, if the player has an ego or is really feeling strongly about their pick, they’ re always going to be like, what about this pick? It’ll just be a longer conversation and you can only do so much in the time you have on stage if a player feels differently. But the better they get along, the better the drafts usually are. Players usually have the final say unless it’s the infrastructure, from what I know anyways. 所以,當談論到教練,選手需要去尊敬教練,這也是隊伍的基礎。 假使選手隊教練缺乏敬意、自負,對自己的選角抱持堅持 事情就會變成:"選這隻怎麼樣?",然後,開啟超長時間的爭論 但是,在比賽台上的有限時間之內 對於選手與教練的意見分歧,能做的事情並不多 經驗來說,選手和教練之間越和睦,那 BP 的結果就越好 然而,就我所知,選手還是對 BP 擁有最後的決定權的 接著,現場提問 Scarra 和 Dyrus 詢問他們認為現今北美最具執教能力教練是誰 結果,現場出現一段令人尷尬的沉默 (・ー・)(。ー。)........................ 接著,兩人回答這個問題 Scarra: No one really knows what they do. Coach of the Split can just win Coach of the Split because their team does well. 沒有人實際知道每隊教練各自到底負責哪些工作 "賽季最佳教練(Coach of the Split)"始終可以贏得"賽季最佳教練"這個頭銜 只要他們的隊伍贏就行了 I personally worked with Tony Gray, CLG’s coach. Think he’s fantastic. I also think Parth is actually really, really good. He gets a lot of shit for what he does, but he’s one of the best systems people I know, in terms of coaching. From another NA only perspective, I’ve generally heard really good things about Locodoco’s coaching. 我個人和 CLG 教練 Tony Gray 共事過。這個人非常傑出。 我也認為 Parth 實際上非常、非常的棒 他對於教練的工作付出了許多心力,他是我認識做教練、下決策,最有系統的人之一 透過其他人的轉述,我聽說 Locodoco 也是不錯的教練 Other people I haven’t heard anything. And honestly, even if I did hear them, without working with them specifically, it’s really difficult for me to say. I think evaluating coaches is impossible, pretty much. 其他人,我則是沒有接觸 但老實講,即使我聽說這個人的表現,卻未與其實際共事過 對我而言,去評價他的教練表現,非常困難 我想在這邊去評價教練,是不大可能的。 Dyrus: Basically, we don’t know. 基本上,我們不知道這問題的答案。 ─────────────────────────────────────── #反觀.... 唉呦,胎哥咪阿,不要講了,呸呸呸 不知道啦~ ヽ( ゚ ∀ 。)ノ 擺出《前進高棉》的姿勢! -- https://i.imgur.com/Neis6h6.jpg @rabbitball19 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 36.239.248.43 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/LoL/M.1508741939.A.006.html ※ 編輯: fkc (36.239.248.43), 10/23/2017 15:00:22
wai0806 : #反觀 10/23 15:00
samsam80821 : 關於BP的討論好像今年很多相關職位的人出來護航 10/23 15:01
S890127 : IGNAR的雷歐娜好像就是教練鼓勵他選的 10/23 15:03
amos30627 : 所以MSF在八強 TSM下去 10/23 15:03
Flyroach : 其實我覺得選手能力越來越接近,BP越來越重要 10/23 15:04
albert801020: 其實跟臥龍鳳雛和球球說的都差不多 10/23 15:04
Flyroach : 最近幾年不只LMS,國外罵BP的聲音也越來越多 10/23 15:05
Flyroach : 往年比較少可能就類似:啊打鼻神喔,那你盡力了 10/23 15:05
swbthj : 賽事辦了七年 觀眾比賽看多了自然意見變多 10/23 15:06
Flyroach : 還有一點是今年國外被檢討最兇的是TSM 10/23 15:06
Flyroach : 所以罵的人也最多,跑出來護的人也多XD 10/23 15:07
swbthj : 人氣高檢討才會多 不然你看FB整季零勝誰去檢討 10/23 15:07
afs479632 : 最近BP最嚴重失誤的應該就是那個Galio Janna Kog 吧 10/23 15:12
swbthj : 還有綠茶三路大劣 10/23 15:12
qk3380888 : 講一堆跟沒講一樣啊 10/23 15:14
xin114242 : 教練真的是個屎缺 肯做的真的很偉大 10/23 15:15
uyrmb47 : BP就是全部人討論的結果 實力就如此 10/23 15:17
uyrmb47 : 哪有那麼多bp能輸掉比賽 哪有那麼容易輸 10/23 15:17
asd860079 : bp不會讓你直接輸比賽 但是會讓比賽變得比較難打 10/23 15:20
samsam80821 : 風哥那邊也有提到BP阿 很多好教練也有幫忙講話 10/23 15:21
et310 : 一旦 BP 完成、進入遊戲;BP 的一切都不再重要了 10/23 15:25
et310 : 啊...難怪可以放加理歐 珍娜 寇格魔 因為不重要 10/23 15:26
bluejark : we直接放珍那小砲給人才誇張吧 10/23 15:29
lacoste1113 : 只要並非 BP 有嚴重失誤,一切都還是有機會獲勝的 10/23 15:33
lacoste1113 : 重點就是有嚴重失誤阿,廢話連篇耶 10/23 15:33
RedEdge : 就很簡單啊,沒有人有足夠的分量當教練啦 10/23 15:40
RedEdge : LOL的這種賽制,教練根本沒有任何權威可言 10/23 15:41
RedEdge : 也不是超過30年的老game,一堆假退休的根本都還太菜 10/23 15:42
dk971355 : 要說趴數可能只剩下Kkoma跟Faker夠趴數了 10/23 16:13