Re: [花邊] 林書豪談Kobe:他不習慣別人挑戰他

[NiGHTsC ()]

其實這段Lin只是在講每個人的溝通方式不同，比較像是解釋職場上與人的相處方式
Gemini真的很方便，直接叫出那段的文字檔來讀就會覺得跟本不是要炎上什麼的
這段滿長的，有快20分鐘，我跳著抓幾段+原篇那段的前後文
也不會全文翻，只抓和原文有關的，前後文都看的話會比較瞭解Lin要表達的意思
原影片有繁中字幕有興趣的可以看看

[00:56:35] Jeremy Lin: I mean, the first thing is our two best players had
season-ending injuries. So, you know, Nash got hurt before the season even
started and was done, and then Kobe got hurt with his shoulder and was also
done. I don't want to—we're all responsible for that result, which was
being the longest losing team in franchise history, but there was nothing
really right. And it started with culture. It went down to everything in
organization, whether it's coaching, players... we didn't have enough talent
I wasn't good enough, other players weren't good enough to be able to get
that done.
But I think that's a microcosm of that season was like—nobody was on the
same page. And you know, we all know what Kobe wanted. He wanted the ball,
out the way. But we also had a play. And so we were trying to run the play,
and it just wasn't happening. He was supposed to clear out to the weak side
Boozer was supposed to come up and set a screen going to my right, and we
couldn't figure it out. So then what ended up happening was Kobe was stuck
there, and I was like, "You know what, I'm just gonna start driving at him.
I'm just gonna start going towards him and use him as a screen." And then
I heaved a very difficult shot. Thank God it went in, because otherwise,
like you said, I would have been ended. But that was a microcosm of our
season, man. It was like we're not on the same page, we end up with a
really bad shot, a really difficult shot, and that just happened to go in.
But most nights that shot wasn't going in and we were losing.*[1;30m
第一段講到那段時間湖人輸到脫褲，隊史紀錄的那種難看。
整個從管理層到隊友間的連鎖錯誤，就真的沒人才會一直輸…

然後就是當老大隊友的困境：
是聽老大的，還是教練的？
老大不跑戰術的話怎麼辦？
老大教練兩邊都在叫的時候你聽誰？

贏球的話當然怎樣都沒事，但重點就是無法贏的時候的困境

[01:00:09] Dwight Howard: Oh yeah, we had got into it on the court.
It was a play that happened on the court in New Orleans. They kept doing
this like pick-and-roll play, and he was the helper to help the helper. And
you know, I had said it a couple times to him, like, "You got to help."
And then he got upset and then we got to the bench and he was like,
"Man, fuck you" or whatever. And I said, "Yo, you ain't going to talk
to me like that." So we got into it. But then after that, it was kind
of like we didn't talk for a while. Like, we didn't talk at the All-Star
game and all these different things. And you know, I just felt like,
"Dang, what happened?" Like, I felt like it was all my fault, but I was
 like, "Man, I was just only thinking in the moment like, hey, you got
to help." I would say that if it was anybody else.
這裡換魔獸講他和老大吵架的過程。
就一次溝通失誤，回到板凳區老大是直接Ｆ問候，魔獸就回說你是不會講話吼
然後就是一陣子的零互動，魔獸也很傻眼，完全不懂怎麼會這樣

[01:01:03] Jeremy Lin: So y'all had that moment. Yeah, we did—very similar.
He was upset at me over something that I was actually trying to do,
but the coach was telling me not to do it. And so he was like, "No,
don't—like, don't foul him." I was like, "No, we got to foul him."
Right? So Kobe was like, "Foul him!" I was like, "I know, I'm trying to,
but the coach is telling me don't foul." So then I'm like, "I don't know
what to do." So it ended up being something where he had given me really
bad body language.
這裡Lin說的就是那段經典的尾段犯規戰術，也是原文提到的起始點
除了老大，跟本沒人知道是要聽教練還是聽老大，
這段遲疑過程的結果就是老大那個不耐煩的大反應

[01:01:32] Jeremy Lin: So I texted him. This is—and we couldn't—like, me
and him,
when we would lose, we'd be up at like 3:00, 4:00 in the morning just not
able to sleep, just very competitive. So I texted him and I was like, "Hey
man, like, I really don't appreciate the body language." And he came back
with a sharp response, and then I went back at him. But it ended cordial
where I ended up saying, "I'm not saying that you can't teach me. You're
obviously like a hundred times the player I am. I want to learn anything
and everything I can from you. I'm just asking, can you just say it in a
way that's respectful to me as a man?" And so he was like, "All right, I
got you." And then he sent over a text with some advice. He's like, "Let's
start with this." I was like, "I got you. I'm going to be focused on that,
I'm going to be working on this."
I'm just trying to get better, I'm trying to help this team more.

We didn't speak for the next five months. I know, I know! It was like,
for him, it was—and he even talked about because we patched up later—
but he had talked about like, he's not used to people challenging him.
And I wasn't challenging him like, "I'm better than you" or "I'm smarter
than you." I was only challenging him like, "Hey, can you teach me in a way
that's a little bit more effective for me to process,
versus talking down to me?"
Shortly after that, he ended up having a season-ending injury,
but we didn't speak for months. Same thing—we were walking by each
other in the facility, we're doing events together, team appearances
together ... no words. It was—we were in a green room one time and it was
just me and him, then one member of his business team and one member of my
business team. Zero words. And it wasn't until the following year when I was
with the Hornets when we played, where he came up to me in the middle of the
game and he was just like, "What's up, man? How you doing? How's your family?
How are your parents?" And that's when I knew he was kind of like, "You know,
I still have love for you." And so we texted after that. But it just took him
a little while to get used to somebody challenging or maybe saying like,
"Yo, the method that you use is not the most effective."
這裡Lin有講到那天之後有傳簡訊給老大，也是虛心求教，表達自己希望向經典學習
希望老大可以別那麼衝，教教晚輩。老大也是立刻回傳一大篇建議。
Lin也是一邊感謝一邊說會照著建議努力持續加強實力

後來這段是滿有趣的，就是原文講到的那段
因為接下來Lin是直接被老大無視，不留情面的無視
Lin也表示他不是在說老大的不是，他很清楚老大和他不在同一個次元
只是在對老大表達說希望他可以用Lin比較懂的方式來教

之後老大傷退後Lin有一小段和他獨處的時間，那氣氛是冰到極點，完全零交集。
是直到最後Lin到黃蜂，老大才自己過來和他寒暄幾句，表示老大還是關心Lin的

Lin才意會到說，老大是真的不習慣被質疑或是被說其實有更好的做法…

[01:08:56] That type of energy was what kind of messed with me. And I'm not
disrespecting Kobe because I fully acknowledge that he's a thousand times the
player that I am. But what I am saying is even within the context of being a
leader, what me and you were saying to him was not "we're smarter than you"
or "we're better than you." It was more just like, "In this specific situation,
here's a little bit of feedback that I felt like you could have handled it
differently. You're not perfect, right?" It comes with so much respect for
who he is. Did he have to respect me, with the magnitude and the level of
player he was? No, not necessarily. I understand why he would look at me and
be like, "He's just not getting it done for us." I don't hold it now, to this
day. I've let it go and me and him patched it up.
這段就是原文的那段「人無完人」
Lin再次強調並不是在說他比老大厲害比老大聰明，二者屬於不同次元
只是表達可以有其他的溝通方式，「人無完人」。
當然，以老大的地位和成就是完全不用理Lin的，所以他也很理解為何老大的態度是這樣

[01:11:32] Jeremy Lin: I don't know where that's coming from. I love Nick Young
I have a ton of respect for him, but I'm like, that did not happen. Can you
imagine that happening? It's like, you're doing a scrimmage, we talk trash
every day in practice, and then one time I'm just starting breaking down in
tears? My teammates would never respect me. I would have been traded the next
day if that was true. They'd be like, "Yo, get him out of here!"
So that didn't happen.
最後這裡就是解釋Lin跟本沒有像老尖所說的他哭著找教練抱怨
因為如果真的有人因為一個練習沒練好就哭著去找教練的話，
他應該早早就離開NBA了…


※ 引述《bengowa (鞭狗蛙 舒服)》之銘言：
: https://x.com/ItsKingSlime/status/2029017272128311713
: @ItsKingSlime
: Jeremy Lin opens up about how disrespectful Kobe Bryant was to him and when
: Lin confronted him about his bad body language & leadership style, Kobe went
: months without talking to him
: “He’s not used to people challenging him… I’m not disrespecting Kobe
: because he’s 1000x the player I am… He could have handled it differently,
: you’re not perfect”
: 林書豪公開說Kobe如何不尊重他，而林書豪因Kobe糟糕的身體語言跟領導風格而對抗他的時，
: Kobe好幾個月都不跟他講話。
: 「他不習慣別人挑戰他...我不是不尊重Kobe，畢竟他比我強1000倍...但他可以用別的方式
: 來處理這些事情，人無完人吧。」

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 209.227.181.141 (加拿大)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1772613629.A.B14.html
推 conqueror507: gemini看影片真的方便
→ koromo1991  : KOBE跟羅傑一樣 不能被質疑
→ duriamon    : 才怪，科比就是霸凌仔，單獨帶隊慘不忍睹的咖，沒了
→ duriamon    : 歐尼爾跟領繩家嫂就什麼都不會，湖人還一直幫他找外
→ duriamon    : 援，結果都被他的爛脾氣霸凌走了，笑死！
→ Chanlin01   : 愛我別肘 牢大 想你了
→ hunt5566    : 死者為大☺
→ conqueror507: Kobe這種脾氣，難怪湖人那個時期都沒人想去
→ duriamon    : 林書豪這種就是典型華人會給人留面子加死者為大，所
→ duriamon    : 以在NBA碰到擊敗黑人就是被欺負，呵呵！
※ 編輯: NiGHTsC (209.227.181.141 加拿大), 03/04/2026 16:47:30
→ kaka2001    : 牢大一開始以為交易來的是林來瘋很開心 結果軟到不
→ kaka2001    : 行超生氣
→ Chanlin01   : 想喝牢大的冰紅茶
推 duriamon    : 沒有吧？當時整團湖人球員沒有一個人跟科比霸凌仔是
→ duriamon    : 可以合作起來的，反而科比坐板凳林書豪還帶領球隊贏
→ duriamon    : 球，超諷刺的，哈哈哈！笑死！
推 Kai877      : 黑暗期就科比跟others啊
→ NiGHTsC     : Lin就典型的亞洲職場，凡事留步以後好相見，重人情
→ NiGHTsC     : 老人就西方那種，我是來幹掉敵人的，沒在留情面的
→ NiGHTsC     : 老大
推 simon0529   : 很Kobe，你誰，別來教我做事，除非你比我強的風格
推 duriamon    : Smush Parker、Kwame Brown、Samaki Walker、林書豪
→ duriamon    : 、魔獸等族繁不及備載，連老漁他都不放過了，尤其Sa
→ duriamon    : maki Walker還被科比揍臉，比嘴綠還早，笑死！
→ duriamon    : 要洗白科比我看是省省啦！霸凌仔怎麼洗都沒用，哈哈
→ duriamon    : ！
推 Alberta99170: 所以LBJ才被叫做GOAT  他有這樣對隊友嗎
→ NiGHTsC     : 老大會成功也是因為個性，偏執狂+極強的好勝心
→ NiGHTsC     : 但被討厭的點也是那個性，就真的「人無完人」。
推 chickengoge : 火爆濫投仔
→ duriamon    : 人無完人那是林書豪善良，留了面子給科比，人家客套
→ duriamon    : 你還當真喔？我講了多少例子了？呵呵！
→ yniori      : kobe那個脾氣真的是還好有遇到歐肥跟加索帶他飛
→ aterthy     : 有人怨氣很重
→ aterthy     : 不過Kobe應該是公認難相處的
推 MDAISUKE18  : 現在講這個不知道行不行，說起來碰瓷老喬第一人先
→ MDAISUKE18  : 行者其實也是柯比（迷）...
→ duriamon    : 講實話而已，現在板上好像一堆新來不看球的，害我以
→ duriamon    : 為走進異次元，一堆人包含龜龜科比以前在板上的評價
→ duriamon    : 可不是這樣喔！呵呵！
推 majohnman   : 感謝整理！
推 gigiii1134  : 菜鳥問問題立刻回傳一大段建議，但同時後面直接無視
→ gigiii1134  : 菜鳥XD真有趣
→ duriamon    : 尤其看過科比單獨帶隊，那根本超難受會爆氣，整天就
→ duriamon    : 拼命打鐵，球隊戰績爛的要命，呵呵！
→ yniori      : 有一場關鍵賽他直接放棄不攻，也是很經典
推 wainkid     : 就說原po那篇推文 很多沒看完整個訪談就在嘴林
推 Xjacky      : 怨氣很深XD
推 mike200801  : 意思是老大也沒在聽教練嗎？
→ mike200801  : 不然其他人怎麼會有這種情況
推 p08171110   : 林就沒證明給他看自己更棒的地方啊，以前喬丹還不是
→ p08171110   : 這脾性
→ duriamon    : 有吧？林帶隊贏球，科比表情超臭的，只要不是科比讓
→ duriamon    : 球隊贏的，他都會不爽啦！哈哈！
→ ooxxman     : 老大是湖人隊魂，教練除了禪師都是小的
推 magamanzero : 很正常拉 那段時間就你拜總要坦 老大不爽這樣
→ duriamon    : 我記得那時候湖人連敗好幾場幾乎快創記錄了，結果那
→ duriamon    : 場科比坐板凳林書豪帶隊止敗，鏡頭給到科比，就看到
→ duriamon    : 科比超臭臉，球隊贏還擺臭臉真夠擊敗，笑死！
→ magamanzero : 球員不知道聽誰的
→ magamanzero : 亡者沙揆 上將凱莉 能量老普  我湖三本柱
→ duriamon    : 並不是，是前面連敗科比都有上場，他自己拼命打鐵，
→ duriamon    : 那時有看球的就知道，球傳到科比手裡就是準備看他蝦
→ duriamon    : 捲打鐵了，所以才會有米蘭的小鐵X那種綽號，呵呵！
推 apoda       : 男人 什麼罐頭我說
→ magamanzero : 那時候就老大退休巡演啊 大家就是來看老大打鐵的w
→ duriamon    : 科比這種咖如果真的像喬丹，那會整天表演蝦捲打鐵給
→ duriamon    : 我們看嗎？笑死！
推 sd2567      : 笑死了 那時候湖人根本沒有跑位
推 magamanzero : 那時候目標就兩個 坦克 和 老大退休表演
推 bobby94507  : kobe單核帶隊就是很爛
推 gn00324893  : 柯比後期那脾氣太大了 沒辦法
推 sd2567      : 打到球季尾聲 roy一個沒三分的中鋒都能跑去底角要球
推 SAptr       : 魔獸也在補刀阿 不是只有林說老大有問題
推 magamanzero : 就沒辦法 自己老了也爛了 偏偏脾氣又大
推 duriamon    : 才沒有坦克啦！湖人一直有幫科比找外援，除了魔獸、
→ duriamon    : Nash後還找了很多，並不單純坦克，Carlos Boozer、L
→ duriamon    : ou Williams、Roy Hibbert、林書豪、馬子狗、魯蛋等
→ duriamon    : ，找一堆人來還是沒用，科比照樣蝦捲打鐵，笑死！
→ duriamon    : 尤其卡死湖人薪資的魯蛋，簡單來說湖人沒有在坦克啦
→ duriamon    : ！
推 nottell     : 豪神到底有沒有被嗆到哭著找教練 我看推文一直提
推 prostar     : 有看球的都知道鐵匠吧！要炎上誰
→ nottell     : 老大就是討厭兄弟籃球 也很少看到他有什麼帶後進小
→ nottell     : 弟的新聞 但也很少球員因此討厭老大
→ nottell     : 反觀富堡幫 綁架整個聯盟 年輕球員眼中臭到不行
→ poz93       : LIN就退休沒聲量了 只好拿老大來給自己抬轎
→ poz93       : 維持自己的流量
推 magamanzero : =,= 林那時候哪來得外援 五老星在林之前好嗎///
推 duriamon    : 欸欸？一堆現役、退休球員開podcast錄節目怎麼林書
→ duriamon    : 豪講科比，就有人不開心了？林還真慘，連華人都倒打
→ duriamon    : 他一把，反正科比很香對吧？呵呵！
→ magamanzero : 你不會以為nash在林之後才來的吧...
推 duriamon    : 我是回覆剛剛樓上說講Nash魔獸之後，湖人沒有坦克，
→ duriamon    : 還持續幫科比找外援，包含林我上面提到一堆人，但科
→ duriamon    : 比還是給我們表演蝦捲打鐵，呵呵！
→ nnkj        : Lin雖然是美國人 但Ray還比較像美國人
推 duriamon    : 反正科比不傳球整天表演蝦捲打鐵讓觀眾吃飽飽，林書
→ duriamon    : 豪帶動球隊傳導流動贏球了，科比還擺臭臉，呵呵！
→ NiGHTsC     : @nottell：我最後一段有講到，答案是沒有
→ NiGHTsC     : 其實ergostepo也有回這篇，但違規被刪…
→ NiGHTsC     : 大意是講老大很扛老隊友的部分，很罩很照顧
→ NiGHTsC     : Lin就真的剛好在老大最後期，還是最黑暗的那段
推 hydeless    : 其實我覺得魔獸講到腦大也是很給面子了，多半都是
→ hydeless    : 找好的說
→ NiGHTsC     : 贏球治百病，輸球鬧氣氛真的是哪個年代都適用
推 alex0973    : 本篇內文和推文很貼切了 KOBE就這個性 而且播客中
→ alex0973    : 雖然講到KOBE不友善的地方 但林書豪跟魔獸的講法
→ alex0973    : 很留情面 也盡量說好話 KOBE當時可是直接嗆他soft
→ gitaboy     : 9連敗時只參與其中三場，後面7連敗都沒上，有人在
→ gitaboy     : 洗記憶嗎？
推 duriamon    : 贏球治百病，但科比有要贏球嗎？還是表演蝦捲打鐵比
→ duriamon    : 較重要？
推 mimimoumou  : Lin都念到哈佛了，他當然比較懂體面，怎麼拿他跟ra
→ mimimoumou  : y比？
→ alex0973    : 末期KOBE的健康和球技上不來 但又是湖人隊神主牌
→ duriamon    : 我已經講過了，科比度量很小，只要不是他帶隊贏球的
→ duriamon    : ，他還會鬧脾氣，笑死！
→ alex0973    : 卡在那邊這大大的架子 其他球員表面服心理肯定還是
→ alex0973    : 不爽的
→ duriamon    : 還有撇除掉歐尼爾跟領繩家嫂，哪一次科比帶隊行的？
→ alex0973    : 同樣難相處的個性 if不是神主牌 那~就像CP3 XD
→ duriamon    : 要不如科比吹蜜做什麼呢？
→ NiGHTsC     : 因為重點是Lin，所以魔獸我快快帶過
→ NiGHTsC     : 其實魔獸和Lin同觀點，就是真的準備和老大大力學習
→ NiGHTsC     : 也有早期在魔術和前輩相處的經驗，真沒想到最後…
→ duriamon    : 吹蜜就是覺得球隊戰績很爛，又帶不起來不爽，但他從
→ duriamon    : 來不會覺得是自己的問題，呵呵！
→ duriamon    : 當初鬥走歐尼爾，不是覺得自己很強嗎？
→ alex0973    : 有些人可以罵 有些人要鼓勵 如果只會用同一套我就是
→ alex0973    : 老大 你們這些衛生紙超軟 那這樣你很難帶動隊伍的
→ alex0973    : 不是只有你KOBE強就夠了 是要湖人隊整個都強
→ duriamon    : 重點是他自己還整天蝦捲打鐵，如果他是咖哩那也就算
→ duriamon    : 了，呵呵！
→ alex0973    : 無敵如張伯倫也不能一個打五個 同時代奪冠最多是賽
→ NiGHTsC     : 怎麼會提到Ray…wwwwww…Ray是效果+甲+屁孩耶
推 hydeless    : 那年腦大TS:47% OWS還負數，VORP比Lin還低
→ duriamon    : 科比真的是幸運待在湖人豪門球隊，湖人整天幫他找外
→ duriamon    : 援幫他擦屁股。
→ hydeless    : 他當時生活不如意原諒他吧
推 holyhelm    : 比起來KD只敢開小號嗆隊友，老詹用詹媒，老大直接當
→ holyhelm    : 面嗆天天嗆XDD
推 holyhelm    : 這算是承襲MJ的old school吧…只是等你能力不行了隊
→ holyhelm    : 友也就討厭你，MJ在巫師也是帶不動後輩
推 Gilbertsky  : Kobe的個性還真的是這樣 不是贏球就好 要他帶領才行
→ Gilbertsky  : 生涯的最後一場比賽就是整個職業生涯的縮影
推 nzej723yyip : 看推文 我還以為Kobe是SBL等級球員
→ asd8604     : 2027了還有科黑，真懷念以前整版老大黑粉互戰的時
→ asd8604     : 候
推 magamanzero : 一值都存在吧 MJ黑也都還有阿
推 a1684114    : 我家豪神真暖 為了不得罪某些人追殺 只能婉轉點說
→ a1684114    : 沒辦法 總是要有人說實話 掉下去造神也該有個限度
→ happyaw     : kobe就是被瘋狂造神出來的...他籃球數據、成就、實
→ happyaw     : 力還有個性都被LBJ屌虐
推 kingroy     : 造神倒不一定，但三連霸的讓人有錯覺是真的
→ happyaw     : 而且狂吹什麼求勝慾望超可笑 kobe的求勝就是球隊一
→ happyaw     : 定要靠他贏球
推 trex995     : 想不到這個年代還能看到科黑，真是讓人感動
推 Vipasyin    : 推
推 hhh0217     : 沒錯 這段其實對剛上班或是當主管的人蠻受用的
→ hhh0217     : 用籃球觀點噓跟噴的人真的靜下心來看一下
噓 gwboy       : 講白了就是霸凌仔不用解釋太多
推 ayen1201    : 推
→ happyaw     : 叫某球迷們冷靜下來吧 他們以為自己神聖不可侵犯的
→ happyaw     : 偶像被批評就開始瘋狂詆毀對方
推 yowusuke    : Lin完全沒有不尊敬的意思吧，老大的脾氣就那樣，這
→ yowusuke    : 很能理解吧，有什麼好炎的
→ happyaw     : lin只是在分享就被認為是批評然後瘋狂詆毀
推 jaspergood  : 人無完人，真的是表達重點
→ Wall62      : 林跟魔獸已經盡量講好話了
→ happyaw     : 更不要說其他像MJ、LBJ、TD、AI、shaq、VC、Tmac等
→ happyaw     : 等 這種沒做什麼事 只是被球迷拿來跟kobe比較的也會
→ happyaw     : 被瘋狂詆毀 有夠可笑..
推 Alberta99170: KOBE各方面都被LBJ屌虐沒問題吧
推 JarvanII    : 冠軍數屌虐？
→ JarvanII    : 轉隊數跟明星隊友數屌虐是真的沒錯啦
推 oion13272613: 少牽拖啦，詆毀是把姆斯做過的講一遍而已
→ oion13272613: 自己組PER124才兩冠是誰詆毀他了
→ oion13272613: LBJ自己西區單核零輪也是詆毀他嗎
推 hexokinase  : 豪豪人真好 還要人無完人幫忙說話
推 hydeless    : 連魔獸也很給面子了，還要哭
推 ghostxx     : TD、VC那才叫沒做什麼事，特別是姆斯被詆毀剛好而已
推 whatahw1    : 為了挺撈打連豪哥都嘴下去…
→ whatahw1    : 星宿派不是叫假的 真的當信教欸
→ whatahw1    : 我只知道Kobe有個隊友歷史前十級的 結果被他趕走
推 csy0922     : 自大又愛面子的霸凌仔
→ tco         : whatahw1 不要倒果為因耶。沒有三連霸，歐肥哪來的Y
推 ilikidd     : 整部看完lin 跟魔獸真的都儘量講勞大好話了，講出事
→ ilikidd     : 實不叫詆毀吧，他們也說很尊重勞大了
→ tco         : 機會進軍歷史前10? 如果歐布只有一冠沒王朝，兩個
→ tco         : 都沒資格。所以不要吹甚麼歷史前10隊友
→ tco         : KOBE沒有75大隊友，幾乎要三連霸，所以不要再扯大歐
→ tco         : 了吧?  大歐離開湖人，已經不知道轉隊幾次囉
→ CCFACE      : 為各位示範死忠科迷
推 whatahw1    : 所以是Kobe carry歐肥嘍 失敬失敬
推 whatahw1    : Kobe剛好都有冠軍賽打比他好的隊友餒 好巧
→ happyaw     : kobe5冠才2fmvp，mvp更是可憐到只有1個...LBJ屌虐沒
→ happyaw     : 爭議啊
推 palapalanhu : 又不是只有他們有提過Kobe，怎麼現在就只針對他們
推 dick929     : 眾所皆知，老大就是個擊敗人，但不影響「他是一位
→ dick929     : 偉大的籃球員」的事實，願他安息～
推 oion13272613: 笑死，腿詹組三句頭都能MVP和送別人FMVP了
→ happyaw     : 完全不會去care lin談論的真實內容 只會先批評跟護
→ happyaw     : 航kobe 唉...
→ oion13272613: 那麼厲害別輸了就轉隊
推 ivo88114    : Kobe個性後面就難搞 要不然為啥是黑暗湖人
→ ivo88114    : 不過當初老大也是求教一堆人
→ ivo88114    : 但牌子大了反而這樣真的是不勝唏噓
→ happyaw     : 反正疑似批評kobe的就先詆毀對方再說 完全沒辦法理
→ happyaw     : 性討論
→ yochiya     : lin最後還幫魔獸75大被偷抱不平
→ oion13272613: 你有拿出什麼東西來討論嗎
推 Landius     : 都說是最接近老喬的男人了,老喬啥樣子老大也會有個
→ Landius     : 8,9成沒問題吧?
推 chosentwo   : 推翻譯
→ alex0973    : 上一篇比較多___的ID 這一篇討論好多了
推 articlebear : 推
推 loveinmars  : 有人氣到好像本人有被Kobe拖去用籃架阿魯巴到蛋蛋
→ loveinmars  : 破掉一樣
推 ymsc30102   : 也不是有沒有贏球的問題 當初好不容易贏球了球員慶
→ ymsc30102   : 祝一下老大也是擺個屎臉給他們看
推 chao105     : 好懷念柯黑哈哈哈
推 BryantKobe  : Gasol是因為Kobe才變成名人堂等級球星的好嗎？他沒
→ BryantKobe  : 來湖人之前都是一輪游的，是誰帶誰飛呢？歐肥和Pen
→ BryantKobe  : ny也沒奪冠耶，某y真是睜眼說瞎話
→ happyaw     : 因為kobe的好勝心就是只有他能帶領球隊取勝 沒有他
→ happyaw     : 還能取勝當然不爽
→ BryantKobe  : LBJ傳媒送人冠軍 的確是送冠的goat
→ Rush0406    : 極端科迷真的是夠了，二陣一防時的巔峰科比總決賽2
→ Rush0406    : 分8分沒上場照樣能躺冠場均還只有15分，你覺得喬神
→ Rush0406    : 、咖哩場均只有15分的話有可能拿冠嗎
推 eric999999  : NBA就是一群人生經歷菜比巴的天之驕子，一輩子都不
→ eric999999  : 懂什麼叫作職場協力的人在相處的
推 yugowolf    : 大歐自己也是整天玻璃心 什麼一分錢比我重要我要去
→ yugowolf    : 湖人 什麼Kobe比我被重視我要離開
推 heavensun   : 天之驕子20幾歲就名滿全球  不是很能體諒其他人的
推 dedekevin   : 前面有人很氣超好笑，kobe帶隊0.67輪，誰帶隊0輪？
推 royan0609   : 推翻譯
推 chchzzz     : 上一篇文一堆牢大粉應激 影片都不肯去看一下的
→ loserloser  : 人家都好聲好氣 你還在冷暴力 #曼巴精神 #求勝慾
推 MDAISUKE18  : 一堆人在老大老大的叫，好像都忘記當初是酸碰瓷老
→ MDAISUKE18  : 喬才開始稱呼老大的…
推 tec645      : 某A好了啦，連這邊也要偷渡山羌是GOAT，有夠搞笑的
→ tec645      : we
推 BbxCn       : 確實 Kobe頂多算是兩冠咖，兩冠水分還超大，有看比
→ BbxCn       : 賽都知道鐵到不忍直視，還好有家嫂carry他
推 a22122212   : 林的談吐真的很有料 不愧是聰明人