Re: [情報] 官方認證Zen2正常工作電壓0.2V~1.5V

[YukiPhoenix (雪鳳)]

※ 引述《NerVGear (Phantom)》之銘言：
: 來源:https://reurl.cc/WnEb7

簡單重點翻譯(附原文)

為了容易理解不一定完全照內容翻

有錯請指正

Understanding What's Going On

We have determined that many popular monitoring tools are quite aggressive in
how they monitor the behavior of a core. Some of them wake every core in the
system for 20ms, and do this as often as every 200ms. From the perspective of
the processor firmware, this is interpreted as a workload that's asking for
sustained performance from the core(s). The firmware is designed to respond
to such a pattern by boosting: higher clocks, higher voltages.

許多監控軟體每200毫秒會喚醒每個核心20毫秒

對韌體而言這是一項負載

所以核心會使用更高的頻率與電壓運作


The Effect of This Pattern

So, if you're sitting there staring at your monitoring tool, the tool is
constantly instructing all the cores to wake up and boost. This will keep the
clockspeeds high, and the corresponding voltages will be elevated to support
that boost. This is a classic case of observer effect: you're expecting the
tool to give valid data, but it's actually producing invalid data by virtue
of how it's measuring.

符合上述行為的監控軟體會導致觀察者效應產生

(你使用監控軟體想看數據但因為軟體本身一直給CPU負載

 導致CPU不是真正的idle狀態  數據根本不對)


What about Ryzen Balanced vs. Windows Balanced Plan?

By now, you may know that 3rd Gen Ryzen heralds the return of the Ryzen
Balanced power plan (only for 3rd Gen CPUs; everyone else can use the regular
ol' Windows plan). This plan specifically enables the 1ms clock selection
we've been promoting as a result of CPPC2. This allows the CPU to respond
more quickly to workloads, especially bursty workloads, which improves
performance for you. In contrast, the default "Balanced" plan that comes with
Windows is configured to a 15ms clock selection interval.

Some have noticed that switching to the Windows Balanced plan, instead of the
Ryzen Balanced Plan, causes idle voltages to settle. This is because the
default Balanced Plan, with 15ms intervals, comparatively instructs the
processor to ignore 14 of 15 clock requests relative to the AMD plan.

So, if the monitoring tool is sitting there hammering the cores with boost
requests, the default plan is just going to discard most of them. The core
frequency and clock will settle to true idle values now and then. But if you
run our performance-enhancing plan, the CPU is going to act on every single
boost request interpreted from the monitoring tool. Voltages and clock,
therefore, will go up. Observer effect in action!

在Win10電源設定內使用Ryzen專用電源設定可以啟動CPPC2

讓CPU在受到負載的時候能在1毫秒的時間切換頻率

而普通的電源設定需要15毫秒的時間

部分使用者會發現切換到普通的電源設定能讓待機電壓降低

是因為普通的設定會忽略每15個週期(毫秒)內14次的切換頻率要求

換言之就是ryzen專用電源設定下CPU有更長的時間是維持在受到負載的狀態

所以頻率跟電壓都上升了(觀察者效應的真正原因)


Okay, Rob. Shhhhh. Just Tell Me How I See Voltages? I Just Wanna Check!

CPU-Z does an excellent job of showing you the current/true idle core voltage
without observer effect. In my example image, I've configured a Ryzen 9 3900X
with all the same things we would advise the public to use: Windows 10 May
2019 Update, the latest BIOS for the Crosshair VIII, and chipset driver
1.07.07 (incl. the AMD power plan). Yes, we're monitoring the behavior of the
core, but we can see that idle voltage looks great. The tool is not
compelling the firmware to boost when it's not needed.

建議大家使用Win10 May 2019更新(就是1903)

外加最新版的BIOS跟1.07.07晶片組驅動(還要使用驅動安裝的ryzen專用電源設定)

CPU-Z不會促使CPU持續在負載狀態


Is There Anything Else I Need To Know?

Yes, actually. The Ryzen CPU depends heavily on a low-power state called cc6
sleep. In this sleep state, core clockspeeds and voltages are basically nil
as the core is sleeping and gated. It is not possible to report out the state
of the core in this sleep state without waking the core, probing the status,
and killing the power savings of cc6. Therefore, MOST tools can only show you
the last clock and voltage of the core before the core went to cc6. So if you
were at full 4.5GHz+ boost @ 1.48V, then the core went to sleep, many tools
might show the core(s) stuck at that value. The tool just doesn't know any
better.

However, the latest version of AMD Ryzen Master can uniquely show you clocks
and voltages in a cc6 state. No other tool can do it. Neat piece of info for
the people looking to understand how their core behaves!

Ryzen CPU在進入CC6睡眠狀態時

頻率跟電壓基本上是0

在這狀態下不能回報核心的狀態(電壓/頻率等參數)

大多數的監控軟體只會顯示進入CC6狀態前最後的狀態

但最新版的AMD Ryzen Master可以在CC6狀態下正確測得CPU的參數


To ensure you're following my instructions correctly:

1.Do not have two different monitoring apps running to compare them, e.g.
Ryzen Master and CPU-Z. Or CPU-Z and HWINFO. I see many folks trying to run
two apps at the same time, so they can compare behavior. This can cause a
race condition, which will affect your results.

不要同時使用不同的監控軟體來比較CPU參數

2.Just run CPU-Z at the desktop, by itself, with no other monitoring apps
going.

只使用CPU-Z

3.Don't forget background apps like Corsair iCue, NZXT CAM, or software
that came with your mobo are also monitoring tools.

不要忘了Corsair iCue / NZXT CAM或其他主機板的公用軟體之類的也是監控軟體

4.Make sure all BIOS voltage settings are set to NORMAL or AUTO. Only
enable your XMP profile for the purposes of this test.

確認BIOS除XMP之外的電壓設定都在NORMAL或AUTO

5.Make sure you have chipset driver 1.07.07 (from amd.com), Windows 10
v1903, and the latest BIOS for your motherboard.

確認晶片組驅動是1.07.07 / Win10版本是1903 / BIOS驅動是最新版

6.Do not worry if your processor is not exactly matching mine with voltage.
All we're looking for is the CPU to go to < 1.0V when you're staring at CPU-Z
doing nothing. This indicates idle is workig correctly.To ensure you're
following my instructions correctly.

如果電壓跟範例的不一樣也不需擔心

只要在正確的環境下(上述環境且只開CPU-Z監控狀態)CPU電壓是小於1.0V

待機狀態是正確運作的


It is perfectly okay if your CPU is periodically using 1.4-1.5V to achieve
boost frequencies, and you should see dips into sub-1.0V as the CPU goes into
idle.

CPU BOOST的時候電壓在1.4V~1.5V之間是OK的

而且運作正確的話在待機狀態電壓會降到1.0V以下


If your BIOS has the option to set CPU voltage to AUTO or NORMAL, please try
setting it to normal

如果BIOS內的電壓選項有AUTO或NORMAL  請選NORMAL


As a temporary workaround, you can use the standard Windows Balanced plan.
Edit this plan to use 85% minimum processor state, 100% maximum processor
state.

替代方案是選擇普通的電源設定並且編輯進階電源設定內容如下：

處理器電源管理

>最低處理器狀態  85%

>最高處理器狀態 100%


Please note that it is totally normal for your Ryzen to use voltages in a
range of 0.200V - 1.500V -- this is the factory operating range of the CPU.
It is also totally normal for the temperature to cycle through 10°C swings
as boost comes on and off. You will always see these characteristics, as
they're intended, so do not be surprised to see such values.

CPU電壓在0.2V~1.5V範圍內都是正常的

10度C的溫度擺盪也是正常的


Please do not undervolt the chip or set a maximum processor state of 99%.
These are ineffective and/or detrimental changes.

不要降壓或在電源設定內把最高處理器狀態設定在99%

這樣對CPU可能有負面影響


補充個人心得：

真心建議按照這篇敘述的做法去執行看看

我把ASUS AI SUITE跟Corsair Link之類的軟體全部移除掉

並且BIOS內所有相關參數回歸到auto

待機狀態下電壓馬上就掉到0.9V了

不會再像以前待機還在1.2~1.35遊走

既然都說電壓在1.5V內沒關係那我也不care了

--
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 118.161.212.12 (臺灣)
※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1563528248.A.9E7.html
推 fu1vu03     : 推
推 jeff40108   : 翻的很好
推 richard82010: AMD:我們的auto都幫你們想好了
推 ayasesayuki : 啊不就買回來bios除了docp/xmp以外啥都不要動
→ YukiPhoenix : 其實就是full auto的正常運作模式
推 kuninaka    : 推
推 wayne7919   : 請問一下要去哪裡查晶片組驅動版本?
→ wayne7919   : 還是不管直接去抓新的來安裝看看?
設定>應用程式與功能

AMD_Chipset_Drivers

點一下展開後會有版本資訊

或是控制台>程式與功能

詳細資訊直接有版本欄位可以查看

推 bobboy8755  : 推
→ jior        : 怎麼有點量子力學波函數崩潰的感覺
推 wayne7919   : 找到了 感謝
推 leo91531    : 原來是薛丁格的優，真香
推 atbb        : 推  但我沒看英文  XD
推 abc21086999 : 晶片組驅動怎麼看幾版啊
推 yankeefat   : 上面不就講了
推 zweihander99: 推
推 Nexus5X     : 不一樣 quantum state 不確定性不是觀察者效應
推 HiJimmy     : 所以 用電表量 就不會有這個問題???
→ lolpklol0975: 電表量也有負載效應 可能誤差比較小吧
推 john60111   : 大大英文真好，謝謝提供寶貴的資訊
→ suitup      : 不會動就不要動啊 很喜歡動膩
→ suitup      : 比amd工程師還懂ryzen?
→ kaj1983     : 官方自動超都把事情給做完了...
推 guezt       : 推翻譯
推 ms07b3      : 那個……請問ryzen電源管理要去哪裡下載？
Ryzen專用電源設定包在晶片組驅動裡面

安裝驅動後去電源選項就看的到了

推 Lemming     : 驅動有啊 記得打勾(預設是勾)
→ Lemming     : offset之前只看all core, cpuz盯著看發現會有0.2-x
→ Lemming     : x跟我給的一樣 要小心 怕吵就cpu風扇一段拉平了
※ 編輯: YukiPhoenix (118.161.212.12 臺灣), 07/19/2019 18:58:32
推 dmc80       : 沒iCUE怎麼玩光QQ
→ YukiPhoenix : 樓上試試看替代方案?
→ Lemming     : 不過前一代就有1.5 怎麼這次才這麼多關心啊XD
推 niverse     : 感謝！
推 ms07b3      : 是下載AMD Ryzen Master就好嗎？
推 hankower    : 薛丁格的U
推 ms07b3      : 不過我的3600平常都是低於1.0V偶爾會突然跳到1.4V
→ ms07b3      : 不知道正不正常？
推 Nexus5X     : 很正常
推 ayasesayuki : 試了一下把所有防毒和常駐背景的程式都關掉還真的
→ ayasesayuki : 能降到1v以下
→ incity      : 全部程式都關掉不用 Ryzen就正常了 好棒棒
推 qweertyui891: 優文
推 goldie      : 推 優文
推 Litfal      : 觀察者效應是更簡單的東西啦，不用到量子力學那麼難
→ Litfal      : 啦。就測量的同時會使用待測的資源，所以沒辦法絕對
→ Litfal      : 準確的測量，例如用CPU來查詢CPU使用率、用網路來查
→ Litfal      : 詢網路流量。
推 pussycat2009: 好文不M嗎？
推 ninjaxin    : 無聊 1.5v又怎樣? 電腦可以用就好
推 waiter337   : 身上長蟲阿 還動
推 z048761629  : ryzen 2000系列的電源計畫 是不是只有Balance可以
→ z048761629  : 選阿？
→ suitup      : 2700u 常駐就是0.76v 有啥好奇怪
推 ken841520   : 這篇真的有效，我3600現在待機只有0.9v出頭
推 bunjie      : 推一個 這篇的Robert應該就是AMD的Robert Hallock
→ bunjie      : 親自上Reddit前線來為大家解釋清楚
→ bunjie      : 建議這篇也可以M起來 很重要的資訊和討論
→ bunjie      : 這種內容才比52和723有料多惹
推 ainigi      : 香爆了
推 GSHARP      : 好
→ hankower    : 2600x Auto/Normal 最低都會掉到0.4v
→ hankower    : Ryzen balance待機頻率3GHz Windows會掉到2.2Ghz