[閒聊] DF分析瘟疫傳說安魂曲畫面

[alanjiang (我只是想看清自己)]

A Plague Tale: Requiem is a beautiful tech showcase

https://reurl.cc/VRppW6






Technically, mechanically and even narratively, Requiem is a massive
improvement over the already impressive debut game.
The mix of stealth and puzzle-solving returns, but it's more robust and
varied,
offering you larger areas to carve your own path than the original.
The visuals are an immense improvement with an extraordinary level of detail,
phenomenal materials work and absolutely sublime lighting.
Then there's the series' signature hoards of rats. In the original, Asobo's
engine rendered 5000 rats on-screen at once,
their detail scaling down the further you go into the distance. But now? In
the sequel it's pushed to a quite excessive 300,000 -
with the team altering their movement to look more like a tidal wave as they
burst through gaps.

在一代中，Asobo 引擎在螢幕上渲染了 5000 隻老鼠，它們的細節隨著距離的增加而縮小
在續集中，則超過了300000  隻老鼠


There has been a debate about Requiem being just a 30fps game on PS5, Series
X and S. It's capped at 30fps on 60Hz displays specifically on console
- or 40fps capped if you have a 120Hz display hooked up to any of them.
Either way, some are disappointed it's not running at 60fps by default.
To an extent it's understandable. Bear in mind the original game - A Plague
Tale Innocence - ran at 60fps on PS5, Series X and S, it's a step backwards
of sorts. However, this is the price we have to pay for the level of
enhancements delivered by this game - and based on a cursory look at the PC
version,
it's pushing CPU and GPU hard, meaning that simply reducing resolution for a
higher level of performance isn't going to work.

安魂曲在 PS5、XSX和XSS上只能跑30fps備受質疑。在主機上如果
接60Hz螢幕的上限為30fps 接120Hz螢幕的上限為 40fps
無論哪種方式，有些人對它沒辦法跑60fps感到失望


It's clear the team makes the most of a jump to new hardware. On PS5 and
Series X, Asobo Studio has the horsepower to open these levels out,
into huge sprawling areas. You get more agency. But equally, the scenery is
packed more richly with detail.
Looking at Requiem's own opening area, there's more foliage drawn far, far to
the distance.
You get higher quality material interaction with light, indoors and out.
There's more complex geometry,
and density of objects strewn around the field, plus parallax occlusion
mapping.


A few other details stand out too: the pin-sharp skybox overhead is stunning
in its large overviews of cityscapes.
Even the early market area is energised with a huge number of NPCs, a vast
upgrade on the original game's sparsely populated towns.
Character models get a big uplift in quality, too. In both geometry and
materials, our lead character Amicia in close-up shows a boost
in texture resolution for clothes, improved skin shaders, and hair
complexity. All combined across the game's often torchlit areas,
Requiem's interplay between materials and lighting is a real spectacle this
time around.

看得更遠，材質更細，光線更亮w，城鎮NPC更多


Image quality stats are a close match to the first game. Both PS5 and Series
X each stay in place at a native 1440p resolution,
reconstructing up to 4K using a temporal solution. For Xbox Series S, we're
again sticking to 900p as the native figure,
in line with Innocence. The upshot is that nothing is lost or gained in terms
of the raw pixel metrics.
Clearly the sequel is pushing for higher settings, and bigger environments as
a way to use these system's resources.
If we compare Series S directly to Series X though, there are a few settings
dropped for the weaker machine. Ambient occlusion takes a hit,
leading to less shaded foliage, while foliage in general appears less dense
at range. Otherwise, this is the same game across all three platforms,
though PS5 does make good use of the DualSense adaptive triggers.

PS5 和 XSX 原生解析度為1440p再偽裝成4K www
Xbox Series S原生解析度為 900p
PS5的DualSense有被充分利用



Performance is a touch controversial because not only does the game target 30
frames per second, it can actually fall short of the number.
At least the 30fps update is evenly frame-paced, with adaptive screen tearing
kicking in on all three when the engine's pushed.
I'd also stress that 95 percent of the time you're getting a smooth 30fps
line here with no issues. Xbox Series X is the best,
and most consistent performer of the three, and I've barely seen much more
than a single frame drop here, even in the most taxing spots.
The emergence of rats is a big stress point in the game, typically, and it
barely shows a blip on Series X. It's not as pretty a picture
with PlayStation 5, however, which offers up a less stable 30fps release all
round, though largely still very solid.

遊戲不僅以30fps為目標，而且實際上可能達不到這個數字
在 95% 的情況下都能獲得流暢的 30fps
Xbox Series X 是三者中表現最好、表現最穩定的一款
老鼠的出現通常是遊戲中的巨大壓力點
PlayStation 5  提供了一個較不穩定的 30fps 版本
但大部分狀況下表現還是不錯(Solid)


If we're picking out the worst points for comparison, scenes involving masses
rats and guards in outdoors areas do cause the biggest problems
on the Sony machine. Equally, Series X's flat 30 clearly drops into the
mid-20s on PS5 in areas involving heavy transparency effects - like fire.
The majority of play is still 30fps, but expect the drops to be that much
more regular on PS5 in its current state.
Curiously the Series S release falls in between the a huge. In overall
consistency it's closer to Series X in overall robustness,
again barring select moments with a huge surge of rats. In terms of
performance, the drop to 900p on Series S does appear to be well judged,
and a benefit in the visuals/frame-rate balance.

火和老鼠會讓fps降到20幾


結論:希望能持續最佳化，後續能提供60fps性能模式
另外難怪主機版本本人體感稍順，原來原始的解析度較低XD

--
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※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PlayStation/M.1666741022.A.57D.html
※ alanjiang:轉錄至看板 XBOX                                       10/26 07:37
推 s425247: 用PS5玩會LAG頓一下 滿可惜的
對啊，弄順一點大家才不會跳過一個好遊戲
推 vsepr55: 更新偷偷把老鼠弄少就好了啊，誰會去數==
60倍界王拳(X)老鼠(O)就問你怕不怕
推 s425247: 問題是頓一下的地方不一定有老鼠阿XD
隱形老鼠，心中有老鼠，處處是老鼠w
→ Chanlin01: 勞贖
推 an138: 具體還是要細看畫質比較影片啦，已經看過太多款ps5畫質調
→ an138: 的比xsx好的，這次cod19就很明顯。明明xsx機能比較強不是
→ an138: 嗎？也不知道是不是有神秘力量在管控。有興趣的自己去水
→ an138: 管慢慢看
就把我有興趣的數字翻給大家看一下，想看影片的google一下文章標題就有惹
推 djboy: PS5/XSX ，看起來，只能跑跑2K的等級
推 superRKO: 勞贖
→ ShenMue: PS5 不太穩定 評測沒講這句話吧？
→ ShenMue: 評測說的是PS5版大多數時間很穩。
It's not as pretty a picture with PlayStation 5,
however, which offers up a less stable 30fps release all round
→ ShenMue: 只是穩定度差了別機一些。
→ ShenMue: 原文下一句
→ ShenMue: 沒翻譯到
我補一下，感謝提醒
推 niokei: Ps5 版不少場景會lag,跟班的npc也常擋路，常被npc害死
推你去餵老鼠嗎w
→ niokei: 這遊戲感覺沒好好調整，效能都不知道被吃到哪裡去了
畢竟有60倍老鼠幫吃效能
上次看到有人說老鼠啃顯卡w
Rats of  Us
推 rayneasd: 確實好遊戲, 優化確實有待加強, 期待下次更新優化和光追
推 vincent5236: 原來xsx 120/40是最穩定難怪我一路全破都很順
推 unorthodoxy: 小品遊戲也來助攻 逼出兩家主機該出新機了
小品界的霸主，現在的小品蠻可怕的
剛剛無聊看了一下4090跑的結果，全開是4K80fps
推 TroyeSivan: PS5又被碾壓了
還好吧，比較持平的說法是兩台都會掉
推 ming0630: 本身ps5 玩瘟疫傳說2我只能說是我玩過PS5版3A最不順的，
→ ming0630: 轉鏡頭很容易卡頓
→ ming0630: 老鼠超多又有很多火的場景卡頓感也很有感
→ ming0630: 我只能說遊玩體驗很差…
只能幫QQ
推 cocowing: PC版能開DLSS，4090 4k輕鬆破150fps吧
→ cocowing: 這款讓人想起Console只有30fps的時代，30幀要回歸了嗎
俺只認native 4K啦w
推 ziya: Pc又贏
→ OscarShih: 4090屌打PS5
尼說價格嗎，3-4倍的價格，3-4倍的笑能，合理啦
→ cocowing: 高譚歧視和這款，不知道魔咒之地和FF16會不會也只有30
→ cocowing: fps，就怕次世代 only=30fps only，倒退嚕
沒關係我們自帶木眼特效，次世代30fps OK的啦
騎士是自己的問題吧，還被DF酸畫面不如阿卡漢坦克
Rats of Us 2畫面顯著的超越一代吧
※ 編輯: alanjiang (220.134.102.169 臺灣), 10/26/2022 12:31:07
推 vincent5236: 覺得至少要有120/40至少看起來順很多，畫面又好，但
→ vincent5236: 還是應該有個60fps最好，sony本家的倒是任君選擇都
→ vincent5236: 有
推 kuninaka: only 30真的很爛
→ kuninaka: 這時代一定要給60fps模式吧
2K 30-40，如果要求60又不砍特效就是1080P 60
→ kuninaka: 4090一張要四台PS5
推 loveyourself: 他們當初開發也不可能用4090，怎麼可以忍受放一堆
→ loveyourself: 勞贖拖累效能
對老鼠有愛吧w
推 e04su3no: 我配備更好的PC都沒辦法穩60了，家機要60也太奢求
當初看到有支援DLSS3想說幹嘛要支援這個w
※ 編輯: alanjiang (220.134.102.169 臺灣), 10/26/2022 12:54:15
推 vict1: 3060ti開dlss 穩2k 60fps 有dlss差很多
推 kuninaka: PS5就沒有DLSS
→ kuninaka: 真正的老鼠模擬器 不是蓋的
→ kuninaka: 一代就玩的很嗨
→ OscarShih: 理論上PS5可以塞FSR2 和DLSS2不會差太多
→ kuninaka: 然後DLSS使用的時候，原始的frame數不能太低
→ OscarShih: 連老任那台都有FSR1.0了
→ kuninaka: 不然補出來的會很奇怪
→ kuninaka: FSR跟DLSS是完全不同的東西
→ OscarShih: 補畫面是3.0才有的 2.0以下都是AI升解析度
→ OscarShih: 所以最近各大科技台都在討論3.0補畫面的鬼影問題
→ OscarShih: 基本上除非顯示器更新率真的很高或是想開啥8K的
→ kuninaka: DLSS以前的問題就是會糊，現在的問題是會有鬼影XD
→ OscarShih: 不然大多也是不推薦去開 在複雜的畫面會補錯
→ OscarShih: 例如地上的條紋 樹葉的間隙
→ kuninaka: 基本上應該就用在60~80補到144以上吧
→ kuninaka: 我想
DLSS3有點有趣
FPS這種要求更新率的應該是特效全低拚更新率，所以不會用DLSS3?
但畫面複雜看戲的遊戲又怕補錯視覺效果差
感覺最適合光害遊戲
→ OscarShih: 高對比的部份也會有問題 就會有拖影
→ kuninaka: 這款遊戲老鼠這麼多，補到有鬼影其實也沒差
→ kuninaka: 能接受就好
→ OscarShih: 所以我上面寫的是FSR2和DLSS2 3.0也是RTX40專用的
推 schenkopp: 4090發爐的案例頗多，最好先不要
→ OscarShih: 發爐也是轉接線吧 老實換個瓦爾
→ OscarShih:                         炮爾
→ schenkopp: 換power的人不多，原廠轉接線不行那不合理，我猜NV該會
→ schenkopp: 直接調功耗限制
現在發爐的不是都是轉接線有凹到嗎，弄直就好啦(逃)
→ OscarShih: 我一開始也覺得轉接線怎麼可能不行 又不是什麼超大功率
→ OscarShih: 而且還是NV要求的 有事也是NV要處理
→ OscarShih: 但擔心還是換個炮吧
→ kuninaka: 其實4090壓到190W，效能跟3090TI一樣 XD
功耗比是有進步滴，價格也有進步w
推 Dheroblood: 這片我用ps玩 目前讓我感覺到頓的地方是雨果他從床上
→ Dheroblood: 起來走去看他媽被**那段走廊 明明沒老鼠還會頓 後面他
→ Dheroblood: 發功叫一堆老鼠出來反而沒感覺頓
只能用隱形老鼠解釋惹
→ kuninaka: DLSS現在就是用來COVER光追損失的效能吧
→ kuninaka: FPS你特效開低就好 光害一堆也不能玩
→ kuninaka: 想看風景再開
→ kuninaka: 這些本來就是玩家的選擇，但是PS5上面沒辦法選 XD
明顯是廠商的疏失(X)要上家機就是要調順啊(O)玩家都花錢惹XD
→ kuninaka: 像我都習慣把動態模糊和景深關掉
推 WU3CO00J: 米奇需要更多效能XD
推 sisik: 遊戲做到XSX上面,因為要遷就XSS硬體的性能,造成沒法對XSX
→ OscarShih: MS自己說XSS只和XSX差解析度而已的
→ OscarShih: 搞到開發者出來罵 調整還是得遊戲廠自己來
→ OscarShih: 調的爛的就像這片一樣 2022年了還有900p的
→ sisik: 用到極限,因為要多花更多的人力及時間去調整.
→ OscarShih: 好不容易硬體都升一個tier讓家機和PC都可以一起向前了
→ OscarShih: 結果MS弄了一個XSS拖後腿也不知道是安怎
別這樣，俺NS和PC交替玩眼睛都沒壞惹，腦袋可能會先壞
900P會動畫面流暢價格便宜有需求的玩家還是會買單啊
例如XB3、魔女3出來不玩嗎，會去計較她的解析度嗎(會....)
→ sisik: 所以PS5即使性能比XSX差一些,但有XSS這拖油瓶,PS5還是表現
→ sisik: 較好的平台.
不同遊戲或許表現不同
Rats of US 2根據DF說法是XSX最穩喔
但老鼠一多兩台都會卡就是
推 f16leon: 要不要先看完文章內容再下結論?
→ sisik: 當初XSS RAM跟XSX一樣多,就不會有那麼多問題了.
→ OscarShih: NS走自己的路沒什麼問題
→ OscarShih: 但家機和PC之間是有關係的 硬體需求被PS4已經卡了7年
→ sisik: 這款就是多花心力在XSX上的少數遊戲,但XSS版本就爛多了.
→ OscarShih: 也就是開發商想進步都會被一個東西卡住
→ OscarShih: 現在終於可以解開封印了結果MS硬是丟了一個擋路的
→ OscarShih: 偏偏XSS也佔了一片江山不可能不管它
→ sisik: RAM數量不同,整個遊戲要調整的東西會很多.
XSS的RAM確實是最大限制就是，可是人家便宜不缺貨就賣得好
→ sisik: XSS賣的比XSX好,這對廠商更不利,拖油瓶拋不掉.
→ OscarShih: 只能考驗廠商的功夫了 下面還有一個steam deck
SD不要參戰吧，這個小肌肉重訓器材會動就好
推 sniperex168: XB3畫面不行啊，沒有穩定30fps，畫面還常常糊掉，但
→ sniperex168: 老實說玩久也慢慢可以接受XD
沒錯，看著看著腦中就自己補畫面和抗鋸齒了，比DLSS啥鬼的都強
多看幾眼立繪就開心惹
→ OscarShih: XB3大概在一些山地的張數會只剩10-20吧 沒辦法
→ OscarShih: 它還是已經用上了FSR了
→ sisik: 對面討論網站有說,許多遊戲商要求XSX的遊戲,不要硬要求出到
→ sisik: XSS上面
→ sisik: 目前是小道消息.
→ OscarShih: 要求2邊都OK的是MS就是了
→ OscarShih: 但XSS的市佔來說我想遊戲商要放掉XSS也是自殺行為
→ sisik: 放掉XSX,改出到PS5 PC就好了.
→ sisik: UE5對RAM的要求也很高.
雖然有點扯遠，Gears 6應該是用UE5開發，這個算軟本家遊戲
到時候看看在XSS上表現如何
其他也蠻多正在開發中的UE5遊戲，等多一點UE5遊戲再來看看w
※ 編輯: alanjiang (223.138.230.123 臺灣), 10/26/2022 15:04:57
→ OscarShih: UE5也是可深可淺就是了 它本身還有針對Indie game投入
→ OscarShih: 最近好像有一個被雞追殺的也是UE5做的
害我去google了一下笑死
Chicken Feet這款嗎?
被巨大雞追殺的恐怖潛行遊戲?
→ OscarShih: 對阿
推 pSeRiC: 確實好遊戲，而且遊戲故事超長，覺得遊戲太便宜了！
推 fish225lin: 我用4090全開+DLSS3約150-210FPS吧，沒有寫輪眼看不到
→ fish225lin:  有明顯補錯的幀，個人覺得很有用
這個讚，會頓一下嗎
※ 編輯: alanjiang (223.138.230.123 臺灣), 10/26/2022 17:12:04
→ randy123: 硬體需求卡住七年 wwww這邏輯
推 j59022: XSX表現比PS5好就叫多花心力，這板邏輯真正確
→ OscarShih: 實際上以這個CASE來說XSX應該是多花心力沒錯吧
→ OscarShih: 表現差距大於XSX多出PS5的性能
推 pokiman: 3080沒開DLSS也能全開4k60fps，如果不穩頂多陰影從極高
→ pokiman: 降到高目前已通關
→ jhs1213: 居然只有1440P 但畫面相當的好
推 EXGG: 3080 2k超高 有些場景還低到27 但又回到30