Re: [外絮] Artosis對LotV的稱讚與對飛天坦克的支持

[purplecake (紫蛋糕)]

ARGUMENT #2: Legacy of the Void is completely different from Heart of the
Swarm. We're playing StarCraft 3, folks.


In early January, I started writing a blog post about why Legacy of the Void is
so good. It felt incomplete, and didn't quite cover my feelings completely, as
I'm still figuring it all out, so I never posted it. But here it is, as it is
a good supplement to what I'm about to write:


“There's always been an argument about StarCraft 1 and StarCraft 2. Which is
better? Which is more fun? Which was better balanced? Which is a better
eSport. I've written and said a lot in the past about these subjects, so I
won't go into much depth about them here. But I needed to bring this up to show
why Legacy of the Void is so damn good.

#2虛空之遺跟蟲群之心是完全不同的東西！我們玩的是SC3，夥計們！

我從一月上旬開始寫一篇關於為什麼虛空之遺很棒的部落格，那篇沒寫完，也無法完全表
達我的想法，因為我自己也還在摸索，所以我沒有發布。但我在這裡揭露它，這是對於我
接下來要說的東西很好的補充：

一直都有SC1和SC2哪邊比較好？哪邊比較有趣？哪邊比較平衡？哪邊更適合電子競技的爭
論。我過去對於這些議題表示了很多，所以我不會深入談這些，但我需要提起這些來顯示
為什麼虛空之遺真是他媽的太棒了。

StarCraft 1 is a game of mechanics. You fight against the game itself to make
as many units as you possibly can, while microing as well as you can with very
limiting control groups. The comeback mechanic is based in how hard it is to do
everything that needs doing. If you get behind in a Terran vs Protoss, for
instance, and the Protoss has 5 bases, while you are stuck on 3, you might
decide that to come back you need a Dropship. Yes, Protoss has way more bases
and is in a leading position, but that means that his economy is more spread
out, and thus more susceptible to harassment. By sending out a Dropship in one
direction, and Vultures in another, you can start to pick apart the leading
player. Some nice laying of mines in front of a far - off base to slow down
incoming defensive units will buy you some time to kill Probes. Meanwhile the
Dropship will hit another area far away, splitting Protoss's attention.

SC1是非常技術層面的遊戲。你盡可能地填塞人口上限並靠著非常受限制的編隊精密地操控
他們。翻盤是取決於做所有必須做的事情的難度。如果你在TvP中處於劣勢，比如說P有五
個基地，而你只有三個，為了翻盤你可能會決定弄個運輸船。沒錯，P擁有遠比你的多的基
地，佔據優勢，但那同時表示他的經濟分散，容易騷擾。朝一個方向派出運輸船，禿鷹朝
向另一個，你可以開始打擊優勢的玩家。位置優越的蜘蛛雷可以讓來增援的部隊慢下腳步
提供你摧毀探測機的時間。而在這期間運輸船會攻擊另一個地方，分散神族的注意力。

StarCraft 2: Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm are games of strategy.
NesTea was the first person I heard verbalize this. In essence, he said, that
SC2 was about decision making. He was absolutely right. It's very much about
knowing your decision trees. The player who understands more should win based
off of knowing what to do next. In WoL and HotS, the comeback mechanics were
based off of understanding the next branch of what to do. Here’s an example:

自由之翼和蟲群之心則是戰略遊戲。NesTea是我聽到第一個這麼說的人，從意
義上來說，他說的是SC2重點在於做決策。他完全正確。你的決策分岐十分重要，懂得越多
的玩家應該要贏，因為他知道接下來該做什麼。在自由之翼和蟲群之心，翻盤是基於了解
下一步該做什麼，以下是一個例子：

You are Zerg. You got way ahead with the army-crushing unit composition of
Infestor / Ling / Ultra.


If you choose to attack and kill your opponent, go to option A).

If you choose to sit back and wait for your opponent to leave, go to option B).


A) Your Ultras get their AI messed with due to smart building placements and
deal no damage for their cost. Your lings shuffle in to attack almost single
file. Your Infestors throw out useless Infested Terrans because they do not
keep up with your army for an attack, and then die. Your opponent now can
come back.


B) Your opponent continues to try to harass you around the map. You easily
clean up each attack with Fungals, Lings, and a bit of static defense.
Eventually your opponent leaves his safe area, and you get a decent
engagement with your expensive Ling / Ultra / Infestor army. He shouldn't have
come onto your Creep. GG you win!


Yeah, its a bit over simplified, but there are thousands of examples just like
these on how comebacks actually occur. (and yes there are exceptions to both
games and all these situations.)

你是Z，而你佔據優勢，擁有小狗雷獸感染蟲的組合

如果你選擇進攻摧毀你的對手，進入路線A
如果你選擇按兵不動等待你的對手離開，進入路線B

A)你的雷獸由於對手的建築學和他們的AI搞砸了。無法造成符合身價的傷害。你的小狗衝
上窄口，以幾乎只有1的攻擊面積攻擊對手。你的感染蟲無用地亂噴蛋，因為他們跟不上
大部隊，然後就死了，你的對手現在有了翻盤的機會。

B)你的對手不斷嘗試騷擾你，你輕鬆地用方狗，小狗和一些定點防禦清掉每一次攻擊。
你的對手終究忍不住跑出他的鐵桶陣，你可以用你的狗雷獸感染有一個好的交戰，他甚至
踏不上你的蟲胎。GG你贏惹！

當然這有些過度簡化了，但有上千的翻盤案例就像這樣發生的。(當然也有反例)


Now this, of course, doesn't mean that SC1 is a better game than SC2 or
anything like that. This is one small aspect of the game. According to this
one aspect, SC1 was, in general terms, very taxing on your speed. This was
partially due to the fact that you were very spread out, and thus your opponent
had more places to attack. SC2 was more about making correct decisions with the
correct units to lock your opponent out of any possibility of winning. I think
that most of the arguments from people that SC1 was/is a better game than SC2
were based, in some way, over this difference in the two. As someone who
personally has been there for the full life of both games, I can certainly say
that I derived a lot of pleasure from that "overstretched” feeling while
playing SC1.


Legacy of the Void gives me that feeling again. I feel like there's too much
to do. I feel like there are endless areas for improvement of play. I feel like
perfect games are forever away. And it feels amazing.“

當然這不代表SC1是個比SC2好的遊戲，這是這遊戲的一個小層面。從這層面來說，SC1非常
吃你的速度。這部分是因為你擴張的非常分散，而你的對手有更多地方可以攻擊。SC2更重
要的是做正確的決定，生產正確的單位組合來封鎖任何對手獲勝的可能性。我認為大多數
說SC1比SC2要好的爭論都是基於這一點。作為一個兩款所有時期都有參與的人，我可以肯
定地說我從SC1那種緊張感得到很多樂趣。

而虛空之遺又給了我那樣的感覺。我感覺總有做不完的事情，我覺得玩法上的改進是永無止
盡的，我感覺看不到完美比賽的車尾燈，而這讓我感覺棒極了。




--
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→ Aggro: 不太能理解 這說法是現在步調偏向一代?
推 kira925: 不是步調 是經濟體系要偏向一代的擴張不能憋
→ kira925: 虛空之遺依然是用SC2引擎做出來的 步調就不太可能慢
→ kira925: BW的部份我另外補充一下翻譯好了
推 RIFF: LOTV這麼好?趕快去跟韓國人講阿。韓人英語通常不好.要用韓語
→ RIFF: 不成熟的比賽 策略會比較多
推 RIFF: 我早BISU好幾年 就用過ARBITER贏過PVT
推 kira925: 想一想推文就好  關於BW的部份
→ kira925: 原PO少翻譯了"You fight against the game itself"
→ kira925: 就是BW的機制裏面你是要去對抗遊戲引擎限制生產更多單位
因為這句字義上我懂，可是實際上是什麼我不懂XD

是說kira大，梅竹賽開始惹耶
※ 編輯: purplecake (125.230.116.20), 02/26/2016 17:05:40
推 julia4525: \丙申梅竹/(跑錯棚)
→ kira925: 因為BW裏面你生產單位要很機械化的一個一個過去
→ kira925: 然後沒辦法預編組 沒有集結點 建築學弄不好會卡住
→ kira925: 甚至因為尋路機制bug會導致便祕 這都是BW引擎的限制
→ kira925: 這就是Artosis說 你在對抗遊戲引擎的意思
推 MrLeFt: 先推再看
推 Caconym: 韓國人應該也知道吧，職業不都在比sc2嗎？