Re: [討論] 科技業就是無止盡地學習嗎？

[billandcs (CS神棍)]

※ 引述《LittleIe (夢)》之銘言：
: 進入職場已5年 從硬轉軟2年
: 每天都還是覺得自己不夠好 常常卡code
: 主管要求的task也常常delay 做不出來
: 是我這個產業本來就這樣 還是我能力太差
: 一個模組做完 還得再去學完全沒碰過的模組
: 永遠無止盡地加班&學習 有時候請教主管會得到不錯的回應
: 但是 天天日復一日的無力感 永遠都得面對自己的無力跟無知
: 非常痛苦 彷彿過去所學的一切都是nothing
: 再過5年就要35了
: 公司的平均年齡也差不多是這個歲數 接下來要去哪裡
: 或是自己能否繼續活在這間公司? 我真的不知道
: 大學碩班都是四大 電機一路唸上來
: 我不知道自己喜不喜歡 但好像也沒其他選擇
: -----
: Sent from JPTT on my Asus ASUS_Z008D.

Technical career path 確實是這樣沒錯啊...

https://www.bnext.com.tw/article/33678/BN-ARTICLE-33678

有架構一點的公司會排定好每一階段的工程師要扮演的角色跟定位.

Entry Level的前幾年他們不會要你就頂天立地帶大案子領導各團隊.

但想要每上去一階除了技術提升,帶團溝通技巧還有更快速的摔倒跟爬起...等等

你之前學的不是甚麼都沒有,那些都是經歷過程,最終階段就是變成Jeff Dean,

Jim Keller 這類型的傳奇人物,帶著你的公司或是產業成長,更強大一點的類似Elon

就是改變人類的文明...跨入下一個時代,當然也不是每個人都要那麼辛苦,也有幹了30年

工程師不上不下的,只是長時間來看,很容易被洗掉...沒甚麼貢獻度下裁員名單很容易被

排在裡面,所以結論就是科技業確實很競爭,要比較輕鬆就是選養老的IPC產業,或是公家單

位職缺...準時上下班,步調慢,開發的東西可能沒很嚴苛的標準,看個人取捨吧.

Quora 這篇用Google職等當例子就很清楚每個階段的職等要具備甚麼能力:

Jeff Dean就是T11級別,能力就是要帶領Google開創新的應用,在這個世界做出新的

產業領域...


https://tinyurl.com/yc7x49jd

Within Tech, there’s another notation, as the letter T followed by the
number, for example, T5 means “level 5 in Tech”.

L1: really really basic level, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone at this level.
L2: entry level. This level only exists in non-Tech.
For the rest, I’ll focus on the Tech org (since this is what the original
question was asking) and use the Tech level.

T3: Tech’s entry level, also known as Software Engineer II.
Yeah don’t be surprised why SWE II is T3 - just historic reason I guess, and
it’s too hard to fix.
Fresh BS / MS without any industry experience is normally hired at T3.
T4: Also known as Software Engineer III
When T3 become independent, and get good projects done, they are promoted to
T4.
Fresh PhD without any industry experience is normally hired at T4.
T5, also known as Senior Software Engineer.
When T4 demonstrates leadership to lead a small team, and ability to design
complex system, they are promoted to T5.
T6, also known as Staff Software Engineer.
When T5 demonstrates leadership to lead a large team, and ability to design
really complex system, they are promoted to T6.
T7, also known as Senior Staff Software Engineer.
When T6 demonstrates even strong leadership to lead one really large team, or
multiple large teams, and ability to design significant system, they are
promoted to T7.
T8, also known as Principal Software Engineer.
This is Director level of scope, but requires technical depth.
T9, also known as Distinguished Software Engineer.
This is Senior Director level of scope, but requires technical depth.
T10, also known as Google Fellow.
This is VP level of scope.
T11, also known as Google Senior Fellow.
This is SVP level of scope.
This is Jeff Dean and Sanjay Ghemawat level.
Btw, there’s a common rumor that Jeff Dean is the only Google Senior Fellow.
That’s not true, Jeff and Sanjay were always the same level for many years.
They were promoted to Google Fellow together, and they were promoted to
Google Senior Fellow together. It just happens that Jeff is a lot more
externally known, and Sanjay rarely shows publicly. They both get the same
level of respect from the rest of the company.
This ladder is known as Technical Ladder. Promotion on this ladder is
measured by technical complexity and project depth (along with impact and
leadership, of course).

Now to make the landscape complicated (which is what Google Engineering likes
to do), there is a parallel Eng Management Ladder.

T5, also known as Eng Manager I.
T6, also known as Eng Manager II.
T7, also known as Eng Manager III.
T8, also known as Eng Director.
T9, also known as Senior Eng Director.
T10, also known as Eng VP.
Promotion on this ladder is measured by project scope (breadth and impact)
and managerial ability, but not by technical depth. That being said, many Eng
Directors I know are still very technical. (For example, my http://Leap.ai
co-founder Richard Liu was a Google Eng Director, but is very technical.)

Now to make things really complicated and confusing, an engineer can choose
to be a manager but remain on Technical Ladder. For these promotions, project
scope and depth are measured. (FWIW, I was in this situation; I manage a team
but remain on Technical Ladder.)

A special point should be made about Product Managers. In Google, PM and Eng
are both Tech (along with Designer, SRE, etc). All the Tech roles have the
same leveling, with the only exception that PM has one extra level, commonly
known as T7.5.

T2, Associate Product Manager I
Note that this is a special level. It’s for Year 1 of the prestigious APM
program at Google. At the end of year 1, APM I automatically gets promoted to
APM II.
T3, Associate Product Manager II
This is for Year 2 of the APM program. If you graduate from it, you are
automatically promoted to PM I. If you fail to graduate from it, you are out
of the company.
T4, Product Manager I
T5, Product Manager II
T6, Product Manager III
T7, Senior Product Manager
T7.5, Group Product Manager
To be promoted to GPM (or any levels after this), SPM must manage a team of
junior PMs. This is different from Eng where Senior Staff Software Engineer
can be promoted to Principal Software Engineer without being a manager.
T8, Product Manager Director
T9, Senior Product Manager Director
T10, PM VP

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※ 編輯: billandcs (49.159.131.197 臺灣), 06/16/2020 17:10:04
→ douge: 去繞繞就知道google 根本沒什麼老人
→ billandcs: 能留下的老人...都要夠強了,不然後面一堆菁英怪...
→ moonth66: 因為還沒老之前，都已經賺飽退休，去壯遊世界了！
→ Lindeman5566: google不是很舊的公司，職缺也是一年比一多
→ Lindeman5566: 產業新+職缺暴增多，老人少很正常，不是老人待不下
→ saram: 科技業像警察,員警退休年齡小,五十幾就跑了.
→ saram: 人的學習力與衝勁到中年就不行,
→ demintree: Google也沒你想的年輕,隨著時間過去很多人也有家庭小孩
推 matyih: 待過g後去其他公司養老更划算啊