[討論] 小巨角戰役

[AlbertSpeer (德國軍備部長)]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn
英文wiki簡介

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2UzKRUgzJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60yLVrhksWk

相關影片

1876年 美軍騎兵中校喬治卡斯特率領部下211人奇襲印地安蘇族營地 該營地有印地安戰
士兩千五百人 但卡斯特未經偵查就貿然輕騎貿進 結果迅速被兵力占優勢的蘇族戰士全面
包圍夾攻 造成其與屬下在幾十分鐘內全數陣亡 無一生還

英文wiki的一段敘述:

The precise details of Custer's fight are largely conjectural since none of
his men (the five companies under his immediate command) survived the battle.
The accounts of surviving Indians are conflicting and unclear.

While the gunfire heard on the bluffs by Reno and Benteen's men was probably
from Custer's fight, the soldiers on Reno Hill were unaware of what had
happened to Custer until General Terry's arrival on June 27. They were
reportedly stunned by the news. When the army examined the Custer battle
site, soldiers could not determine fully what had transpired. Custer's force
of roughly 210 men had been engaged by the Lakota and Northern Cheyenne about
3.5 miles (6 km) to the north. Evidence of organized resistance included
apparent breastworks made of dead horses on Custer Hill.[33] By this time,
the Lakota and Cheyenne had already removed most of their dead from the
field. The soldiers identified the 7th Cavalry's dead as best as possible and
hastily buried them where they fell. By the time troops came to recover the
bodies, they found most of the dead stripped of their clothing, ritually
mutilated, and in an advanced state of decomposition, making identification
of many impossible.[35]

Custer was found with shots to the left chest and left temple. Either wound
would have been fatal, though he appeared to have bled from only the chest
wound, meaning his head wound may have been delivered post-mortem. He also
suffered a wound to the arm. Some Lakota oral histories assert that Custer
committed suicide to avoid capture and subsequent torture, though this is
usually discounted since the wounds were inconsistent with his known
right-handedness. (Other Native accounts note several soldiers committing
suicide near the end of the battle.)[citation needed] His body was found near
the top of Custer Hill, which also came to be known as "Last Stand Hill."
There the United States erected a tall memorial obelisk inscribed with the
names of the 7th Cavalry's casualties.[35]

Several days after the battle, Curley, Custer's Crow scout who had left
Custer near Medicine Tail Coulee, recounted the battle, reporting that Custer
had attacked the village after attempting to cross the river. He was driven
back, retreating toward the hill where his body was found.[36] As the
scenario seemed compatible with Custer's aggressive style of warfare and with
evidence found on the ground, it was the basis of many popular accounts of
the battle.

According to Pretty Shield, the wife of Goes-Ahead (another Crow scout for
the 7th Cavalry), Custer was killed while crossing the river: "...and he died
there, died in the water of the Little Bighorn, with Two-bodies, and the blue
soldier carrying his flag".[37]:136 In this account, Custer was allegedly
killed by a Lakota called Big-nose.[37]:141 However, in Chief Gall's version
of events, as recounted to Lt. Edward Settle Godfrey, Custer did not attempt
to ford the river and the nearest that he came to the river or village was
his final position on the ridge.[24]:380 Chief Gall's statements were
corroborated by other Indians, notably the wife of Spotted Horn Bull.[24]:379
Given that no bodies of men or horses were found anywhere near the ford,
Godfrey himself concluded "that Custer did not go to the ford with any body
of men".[24]:380

Cheyenne oral tradition credits Buffalo Calf Road Woman with striking the
blow that knocked Custer off his horse before he died


以往美國都把此役當成像阿拉漠那樣壯烈成仁的傳奇案例 但是經檢視戰場以及聽印地安
蘇族方面的口述歷史來看 反而比較像是貿然推進中伏全滅 且對印地安族的名譽回復
也積極推行 所以傳奇色彩消失殆盡 電影"We were Soilder"角色就對於卡斯特評價甚差

感想:
喬治卡斯特的確是美國版的牟田口廉也無誤 然而害死快六萬下屬的牟田口還恬不知恥
的活了很多年 害死兩百多下屬的卡斯特當場陣亡 算起來不怎麼有天理

--
"除了公敵,我沒有敵人"

---法國賢相黎胥留臨終遺言

--
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※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Warfare/M.1446537933.A.A82.html
※ 編輯: AlbertSpeer (101.13.67.238), 11/03/2015 16:11:42
推 wittmann4213: 毛澤東史達林還不是壽終正寢，講什麼天理太可笑
→ wittmann4213: 卡斯特是腦衝自己在場當然就被婊死，牟田口又不是。
推 s952013: ATARI有款卡斯特的復仇，超鳥的遊戲
→ AlbertSpeer: 我個人情感上較同情印地安人 但是照當時局面印地安人
→ AlbertSpeer: 被趕進保留區而失去傳統與原住地已經是大勢所趨
※ 編輯: AlbertSpeer (101.13.67.238), 11/03/2015 16:36:25
→ wittmann4213: 印地安人沒有工業背景支撐，被消滅是必然的，不過大
→ wittmann4213: 小角戰役時，記得印地安人用的槍比美國騎兵的好。
→ AlbertSpeer: 實際上印地安人沒被消滅 他們被趕進保留區 那是一段
→ AlbertSpeer: 血淚史 所以現在美國政府就用開賭場等優惠補償他們
→ AlbertSpeer: 但跟印地安人當時的顛沛流離比....嗯.....
→ AlbertSpeer: 記得印地安人就常常拿貨物去貿易站換槍枝彈藥
推 wittmann4213: 印地安人用的亨利來福槍射速遠比美軍用的春田卡賓快
推 yoyodio: 卡斯特此役堪比武田元繁……
推 kevin55l: 印地安人有尖嘯+10射速            (大誤)
推 clickslither: 牟田口是盟軍之友...當然有資格得到善終
推 zeumax: 哪個保留區開賭場有漏洞，就有純白人取得身份開賭場
推 tony3366211: 原住民槍還比較好，還有蘇族夏安族，同族都不是團結
→ tony3366211: 的聯盟，是殖民者太過份，讓他們團結一致，不然卡斯
→ tony3366211: 特的部隊，原本分散的原住民，可能真的不是對手。
推 a7v333: 玩世紀帝國3 劇情有這關
推 Inkthink: 同樓上 印象中那關有一大堆騎兵
→ chuckni: 怎麼會拿牟田口來比....
→ AlbertSpeer: 因為都有勇無謀啊
推 makoto888: 牟田口那不是有勇無謀，根本是少了腦子吧
推 g3sg1: Lesley J. McNair算西線德軍之友嗎? 堅持用反戰車砲的人
推 RACINGHEART: 為什麼印地安人的槍比美軍的槍好啊?
推 suaowilliam: 因為印地安人是自費買槍，美軍的則是公發品
→ suaowilliam: 軍隊採購武器通常要求的不是最好，而是便宜量大...
→ goetze: 小時後還看過神化卡斯特的電影~那時覺得很帥~現在就..
→ captainprice: 那種神話殖民者的電影就我看來跟日本人拍陸戰隊在
→ captainprice: 上海多神勇一樣 是種充滿優越感傲慢心態的吹噓
推 su281: 蘇族用的溫徹特步槍比美國騎兵用的活門步槍裝彈量大射速快~
→ su281: 戰後一直想省子彈的美軍高層被罵翻,才有新的春田步槍列裝~~
→ saltlake: 看來印地安人跟當年的大清一樣只想師夷長技以制夷