Re: [問題] 紅軍的人肉排雷戰法

[pedro0930 (BrotherPedro)]

朱可夫說叫步兵直接無視地雷的來源大概是艾森豪的回憶錄Crusade In Europe 467頁:

“Highly illuminating to me was his description of the Russian method of
attacking through mine fields. The German mine fields, covered by defensive
fire, were tactical obstacles that caused us [the western Allies] many
casualties and delays. It was always a laborious business to break through
them, even though our technicians invented every conceivable mechanical
appliance to destroy mines safely. Marshal Zhukov gave me a matter-of-fact
statement of his practice, which was, roughly, ‘There are two kinds of
mines; one is the personnel mine and the other is the vehicular mine. When we
come to a mine field our infantry attacks exactly as if it were not there.
The losses we get from personnel mines we consider only equal to those we
would have gotten from machine guns and artillery if the Germans had chosen
to defend that particular area with strong bodies of troops instead of with
mine fields. The attacking infantry does not set off the vehicular mines, so
after they have penetrated to the far side of the field they form a
bridgehead, after which the engineers come up and dig out the channels
through which our vehicles can go.’”
但大意就是說艾森豪跟朱可夫提到被火力掩護的雷區是讓西方盟軍感到頭痛的障礙
朱可夫回答蘇聯會叫步兵直接無視地雷的存在先突破雷區
反正從地雷的戰損跟衝機槍和火炮陣地差不多
等步兵突破後工兵在上來清出車輛可以過的路




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推 fw190a: 推這篇，突擊重點不是排雷，是讓工兵有安全環境作業
推 dustlike: 被機槍射死或被地雷炸死 選一個
→ hgt: 朱可夫把人命當數字玩
推 hgt: 有學到史達林的思維
推 higger: 也可能朱可夫說大話嘛...
推 wistful96: 有聽過,真是人命不值錢的世界(大陸好像也是)
推 cht1234: 戰爭真是悲哀
→ gundamwind: 對當時而言人命就真的只是數字
推 aaagun: 紅軍本來就是搞效率優先，人命次之
推 jetzake: 之前不是有討論坦克裝甲的一張圖 大概跟那個概念差不多
→ jetzake: 為了防範單兵反甲武器的近距離襲擊 坦克要追加裝甲
→ jetzake: 德國人老老實實的搞側裙和防磁裝甲之類
→ jetzake: 美國人弄一些置物箱 把雜物堆上去做緩衝
→ jetzake: 俄國人就是讓步兵直接坐上去 反正無產階級士兵不值錢
推 gasbomb: 蘇聯讓士兵掛著戰車上不是真的要當外掛裝甲用 ==
→ jetzake: https://i.imgur.com/kpSUfjZ.jpg 找到圖了
推 goodgodgd: 外掛步兵不是要當裝甲，是卡車和運兵車不足，只好坐在
→ goodgodgd: 坦克上
推 mattc123456c: 實際上絕對不只蘇聯那樣乘坐，坦克速度終究讓步兵上
→ mattc123456c: 車乘坐吧
推 jetzake: 認真說 戰車伴隨步兵是標準戰術沒錯啦...
→ jetzake: 只是那個大多是步行或是坐在旁邊的輕裝甲車上面
→ jetzake: 直接坐在坦克上面的確是蘇聯才這樣搞
→ jetzake: 被拿來當梗玩那也沒什麼好講的 真的就這麼回事
→ AlisaRein: 那法國的做法呢？
推 lolitass: 步兵直接座在戰車上是二戰普遍的作法 要接敵才跳下來
→ lolitass: 加減省步兵體力 蘇軍還有特別加把手給步兵扶
推 gsx56840: 步兵搭坦克在車子不夠的國家是很正常的，有行軍過就知道
→ gsx56840: ，有車子可搭就算是坦克也沒差，智障才會想用腳走
推 birdy590: 二戰很常見一堆美軍掛在雪曼上 但就真的只是搭便車
推 BITMajo: 台灣的坦克載人會累，要按摩，比較不方便
推 defenser: 蘇聯戰車掛步兵其實是人型感應砲的前身(X)
推 leptoneta: 國軍教範記載有需要的話也能一台車載一個班
→ requiem: 坦克載兵大家都會 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tan
→ requiem: k_desant
推 g3sg1: 坦克載人是大家都有啦 只是一般都是當計程車 碰到敵火就趕
→ g3sg1: 快跳下車接戰
推 zeumax: 人肉防護沒有比較好，做為計程車用途是比較合理的
→ zeumax: 人肉防護屬於酸蘇聯笑話